Check this out. http://www.470mbogo.com/PenetrationComparison.html

It is totally dependent on the bullet style, but, yep...faster is definitely deeper with non-expanding bullets, no matter what you read on other sites.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck:

The last thing in the world that this retired hunter wants to do is to fight with his old Canadian friends -BUT (You knew that was coming, didn't you?) I do have to wonder how come my chuck rifle of my youth, a 220 Swift using a 48gr. factory load (MV -4140 fps) was worthless for white tails. In fact, the bullet often blew up on the chucks and I often walked up to chucks that looked like they had been partially skinned. Like I said, Canuck, no fight is intended and this old reader of the mags is well aware of the arguments about "slow moving heavy bullet" vs " fast small bullet". Frankly, in a lifetime of using both, I still have no firm opinions. The animal dropped because of the particular circumstances of the moment and the placement of the shot. Just my thoughts.

Hey gerrys375,

No problem, eh. We actually don't disagree at all. This is an extremely bullet specific phenomenon and your experience is not at all inconsistent with the results of the test linked to above, although it may seem that way.

There ARE studies out there that show that after a certain velocity with the same bullet, penetration is NOT increased and in some cases actually decreases. To be clear, these bullets are all "expanding bullets" however. This applies especially to non-bonded core lead bullets, but also even to a point with most other expanding bullets (bonded core, barnes x, partitions, etc).

I won't go into details as this has been debated here thoroughly over the years, but the general idea is that the increased velocity causes too rapid (or too much) expansion and the bullet may fail (disintegrate) and not penetrate much at all, or will expand to a point that its increased surface area (friction) causes its velocity to drop so quickly that expansion is reduced.

With non-expanding bullets that doesn't happen. Many argue that a hard-cast lead bullet fired from a 45/70 will penetrate more if you shoot it slower. In some cases that is probably true. For example if the bullet deforms or breaks apart on impact above a certain velocity, its penetration will suffer accordingly.

Unfortunately, people apply that phenomenon incorrectly to other situations. For example, they might think that if a 45/70 with hard cast lead performs better at 1600 fps then it does at 2200 fps, then the same must be true for a 458 Win mag or a 458 Lott. Well, it ain't. Not unless you are using the EXACT same kind of bullet that was in the 45/70. Substitute that brittle hard cast lead bullet for a solid copper bullet, and SHAZAAM, it penetrates FURTHER if you drive it faster, just like was demonstrated in the test 470Mbogo carried out.

Cheers,
Canuck

Two excellent posts by Canuck that are right on the snoozola.

I don't know who the fella is who did this test, but I sure appreciate that he did it. I was getting tired of hearing all the nonsense and theory attempting to justify how a slower solid could out-penetrate a faster solid of the same design. I was about ready to run the same test and was, quite honestly, a tad embarrassed that I had to. This mbogo fella nailed this one clean.

Most of the nonsense originated from the www.garrettcartridges.com websit and Garrett's fictional comentary about 45/70's being superior to the .458 Winchester as a dangerous game rifle. Again, this fella's data killed that thought deader than Lincoln.

Hi Ugger,
I'm glad you appreciated the time I put forth on this far stretched theory. I just happened to have some heavy for caliber bullets and had read enough BS to make me do it. Canuck has cleared up on all the other information and details so I won't bore you with it again but thanks again for your appreciation.
Take good care,
Dave