I have a mule deer hunt coming up in November in the Breaks in Montana. Wondering if a .25-06 is appropriate or whether I should take my .300 Win Mag. Both are good long range shooters, but they are obviously quite different in the bullet they deliver.

This will most likely spark just another thread about what will actually kill the deer v. what may be best in your hunting environment.

What is the longest shot you will take?

Personally, I like the 300 of the 2 but either will kill a mule deer. Wind may be a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampcat:
I have a mule deer hunt coming up in November in the Breaks in Montana. Wondering if a .25-06 is appropriate or whether I should take my .300 Win Mag. Both are good long range shooters, but they are obviously quite different in the bullet they deliver.

Whichever one you shoot best in the wind...

Either will do just fine -- and the deer will never know the difference if you put a proper bullet in the prescribed spot.

If I am lucky enough to get drawn this year for mule deer in west Texas -- where similar conditions and constant winds prevail -- my cartridge of choice will be a 6.5 Bullberry IMP (aka 6.5x30-30 AI) in a 26" MGM Contender barrel. The load would be a 130 grain Accubond at 2626 fps MV.

I know my limitations and those of the cartridge. It is certainly no burner but is surgically accurate, and I would never feel "undergunned" for deer with it. Last week, I made one of the longest shots of my little 6.5s career: a large wild hog at just under 300 yards. The conditions were perfect, and the 130 grain AB performed admirably.

I guess I can't be sure, but the outfitter seemed to think we could get with 250 to 300 yards, maybe closer. I am working handloads for the .300 now and with a 180 gr. Barnes TSX BT over 69.4 gr. of IMR 4350 managed a .600" 3-shot group at 100 yards--that's off the bench of course. My outfitter has indicated that I should be able to shoot from a prone position and I practice, so I would be comfortable to 300 yards with either rifle. Just wondering about terminal performance with a 117 gr. bullet out of the .25-06. I live in Florida, so don't practice in much wind.

Terminal performance with a 117 grain bullet from a 25-06 will be excellent for mule deer.

As far as the wind, quite honestly, under field conditions out to 300 yards, you won't be able to tell the difference between the 25-06 and .300 Win Mag.

I forgot to add: of the 117 grain bullets out there, the good ol' Sierra Pro Hunter is one of the best you'll find. But the 110 grain Accubond and 115 grain Ballistic Tip will do the trick also.

I have many rifles, but almost always carry an old favorite .270 for Mule Deer hunts. This drives my best hunting buddy crazy. He hunts with a .300 RUM and couldn't understand why I carry a .270 Mule Deer hunting when I have several magnum 27-30 cal rifles in case I need to shoot "very far". Well, last year we went on a WY MD hunt. He brought along one of his buddies from work. His buddy asked him if he should use his .270 or buy a new .300 Mag and my buddy told him to just take his .270 because for the last 10 years he say his partner's .270 killed Mule Deer just as well as his .300 RUM and he was thinking of something lighter for future hunts. My point is that we like to fantasize about some horrible worst case scenario where a 300 Mag might work better than a .25-06/270/280 whatever, but it is really mostly just a fantasy. Take whichever you like, but make sure you can shoot it from field postions. I have seen more magnum eyebrows from .300 mags fired in awkward field prone shooting anything else.

Lou

swampcat - i've hunted mule deer all my life and antelope in that area. either will work just fine and i would suggest taking the one that you personally have the most confidence in.

i doubt that you will "have" to take a shot voer 300 yards. you might see deer farther than 300 yards but in that country you should be able to put on a great, challenging stalk and really get your money's worth. if by chance the stalk gets blown, you WILL have another opportunity the next day - there is no shortage of great opportnities.

I use a 257 Bob with the 100 grain Speer Spitzer. 9 dead deer with 10 rounds expended, including a brisket clip.
My buddy uses a .270 and it does the job, but it mushes a bit too much meat for my taste.

I just have to say that my father has hunted Mulies in the breaks south of Malta (everything from Robinson Hill to Forchuette Bay to the Larb hills) for at least three decades with a 25-06. He just recently upgraded to a .270 Roy but that was a deal he couldn't walk away from and not any kind of black mark against the quarter bore. He still has the same Ruger 25-06 simply because he loves it and can't bring himself to get rid of it. The winchester in weatherby clothes is just his latest toy. I'm sorry, I appear to be drunk and rambling.

Anyways, the 25-06 will do just fine on Mulies with a quality bullet and confidence. In the end I would recommend to you to use the rifle you have the most confidence in. Happy hunting and where would you happen to be trekking?

how close can you get?
whats been the average distance of previous shots.
how well do you shoot each rifle at the same distance?
do you plan on doing alot of walking or glassing from a truck and shooting off the hood?

is it a guided hunt?
what does the outfitter say is the average distance?

my view has always been this...
If im going on a paid hunt im payiing for the expierience not the meat. i can buy meat cheaper.
I dont want the whole she-bang-a-bang to be etched into my memory of me shooting some grass chewer from 300+ over the hood of a chevy.
I'd pack a light 308 carbine and find a guide who wants to work. If i connect, what a thrill. If i dont i had a great time and saw more country.

In over 50 years of hunting Mule Deer, I've used just about anything reasonable one could think of and few unreasonable cartridges as well. That mean anything from the .30 carbine to the .375 H&H. I would have to say that over the years, it's been the .308 Win. and the 30-06 that have seen the most use. Ranges have run from 6 feet to 427 long paces, and in both cases it was the .308 Win. that was in hand.
If I was on your hunt, I'd probably go with the 25-06 as first choice. I'd probably go with a 120 gr. Speer Hot-core as that's what my 25-06 shoots best. If you went with the .300 mag. and was absolutely shots would be out at 250 yards plus, I'd just go with a 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter. The way I have my .300 set up is I worked up two loads for the rifle, one witht he Sierra as mentioned for long shot and the other with the same weight Nosler Partition. Now this has worked for me in three rifles, the .308, 30-06 and the .300 Win. mag. I'l just describe the .300. I worked up the best load I could get using the Sierra Pro-hunter. Then, I backed off two grains of powder and worked back up using the Nosler Partition. In all three rifles the same load shot to the same point of impact out past 200 yards. So, on the hunt, I have the Nosler set to be the first shot should the range be close. After 100 yards, the deer is far enough away that I can quietly remove the Nosler and use the Sierras which fill the rest of the magazine.
Personally, I don't thing the TSX is necessary for deer. None of the ones I've seen are wearing kevlar yet.
Frankly, either rifle will work just fine. Good luck on the hunt.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampcat:
I guess I can't be sure, but the outfitter seemed to think we could get with 250 to 300 yards, maybe closer. I am working handloads for the .300 now and with a 180 gr. Barnes TSX BT over 69.4 gr. of IMR 4350 managed a .600" 3-shot group at 100 yards--that's off the bench of course. My outfitter has indicated that I should be able to shoot from a prone position and I practice, so I would be comfortable to 300 yards with either rifle. Just wondering about terminal performance with a 117 gr. bullet out of the .25-06. I live in Florida, so don't practice in much wind.

The times I've hunted the breaks, there was always time to set up a nice stable prone shot.
Most trips I took a 7mm magnum with medium 140-grain loads. Shots get shorter, every trip.

quote:

I am working handloads for the .300 now and with a 180 gr. Barnes TSX BT over 69.4 gr. of IMR 4350 managed a .600" 3-shot group at 100 yards--that's off the bench of course.

quote:

I don't thing the TSX is necessary for deer.

swampcat - i agree about this not being necessary for deer; a fast-opening psp-type bullet is best for deer and at 180 grains penetration will not be a problem. my father, my sons and i all use 150 grain psps out of our 30 cal rifles and have never needed heavier.

25-06 is great

but then so are

270
257 bob
7mm 08
7 mauser
6.5x55
30-06
308
280
260
300
etc etc

Thanks for all the great advice. Good to know that most of you think the .25-06 would be plenty of rifle for mule deer.

I've used my Ruger 25-06 in the Breaks for mule deer three times and am disinclined to use anything else. I loaded a 120g Swift A Frame and found the performance of cartridge and bullet more than satisfactory.

In my circumstances I found that getting in for a shot of less than 200 yards challenging. The Breaks offer some great spot and stalk hunts, but you can run out of cover in that last 200 yards or so. It was for me some outstanding hunts that I plan to repeat soon.

I really can't imagine a much better rifle for Mule deer than a .25-06.....unless it's a .270 and the difference is indeed small!

It has the range and the power required.....more just might be counterproductive!

I have taken all my Mule Deer with a 7mm STW and a .340 Wby. I only hunt them in conjunction with the Elk season in Colorado and either use the same rifle I use for Elk or my backup. I would not be uncomfortable with my .257 Wby, .243 WSSM (the smallest I would consider), 25 WSSM. I would also readly use my .300 Winny, .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, .358 STA if I had them in my hands when the shot came. Good shooting.

.300WM 'cause I think it's a great cartridge. I have no experience with any of the Barnes bullets but I know for a fact the NP will work for you. try some of the 200gr bullets.

Either, I'd take the one I shot the best.

Mulies are no harder to kill than large whitetail, so any good whitetail load will do just fine.

Good Luck

Reloader

The wind can be very strong here in North Central Montana. But even with that if you do your part the 25-06 will be just fine. Many of the hunters I know use them and 270's with great results.
Bucking the wind is the only concern I can see that would matter between the two cals you have asked about. Sure the 300 would be better at that, but chances are a good guide is going to get you close enough that the wind won't be much of a factor.
Good luck and enjoy our area.
MM

Others may be as good, but nothing beats a 7mm Rem mag for deer.

I vote for the 300wm since I've hunted mule deer in CO with mine using a 180gr Sierra GameKing,72gr of IMR 4831 with a Rem 9 1/2 LR Mag primer at a bit over 600 yards using 9 power Leupold 3x9x40 with CPC Recticle dropped a huge mule deer doe.

I handload for .222, .223, 22-250 .243, 6mmBR,.243Win, 25/35, .250/3000, 257Roberts, 257 Roberts AI, 6.5x55, 6.5 Rem mag, 270, 7x57mm, 7mm Rem mag, 30-30, 303Sav, 300Sav,.308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62x39mm, 303Brit, 7.62x54R, 8x57mm, 338WM, 35 Whelen, 350RM, 44 mag, 45acp, 45Colt, .410, 45/70, 12 ga slugs.

I have been plugging in the bullets and powders into Quickload and Quick target, over and over at 65,000 psi and 24" barrel, and the best mule deer load on paper I can find is Barnes tipped triple shock 130 gr from a 300 Win Mag doing 3550 fps from the muzzle.

With the scope 1.75" above the bore, sighted in at 200 yards, the bullet is not 10" below the line of scope until 370 yards.
At 600 yards it is still above 2000 fps, but is down 40" from line of scope.
Most cartridges and bullets one would consider are somewhere between 310 and 350 yards at the 10" down distance.

I must be the only one. I picked up a 257 Weatherby for mulies and antelope. No problems with ranges out to 300. Wind will be a factor noticably after that. I understand that the 257 does some damage at closer ranges but a shot through the ribs and heart won't spoil anything I intend to put in the freezer.

Ken....

I'm going to be hunting the same area this year. I am taking a 257 Roberts. I have the most confidence in this rifle and I love to stalk deer. Take the one you have the most confidence in. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
I must be the only one. I picked up a 257 Weatherby for mulies and antelope. No problems with ranges out to 300. Wind will be a factor noticably after that. I understand that the 257 does some damage at closer ranges but a shot through the ribs and heart won't spoil anything I intend to put in the freezer.

Ken....

I used a 270 wby on mule deer last fall in WY. One I hit at about 50 yds and there was no more damage to it than one I got at 200 yds the day before. These were does by the way and shot through the ribs.
I will be taking the 270 with me again this year along with a new CD in 3006.

Rad

Show me someone who loads 120grain bullets in a 25-06 and I'll show you someone who sould have their 25-06 taken away from them because they don't know how to use it.

If indeed you feel that a 100gr bullet in a 25-06 is inadequate for the game you intend to hunt you probably need a bigger bore cartridge to shoot it out of.

I have nothing against 120gr bullets, I LOVE them in my 7mmMag, which tosses them FASTER than my 25-06 could toss most 90's (Then again at mid-3300s for 140's my 7mmMag tosses 140's faster than the 25-06 can toss 100's)

I have to agree that the 7mmMag is an excellent deer cartridge, probably better than a 300mag.
what makes 300Mag's less than "perfect" is peoples insistance on loading 180's (or heavier) into them.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Show me someone who loads 120grain bullets in a 25-06 and I'll show you someone who sould have their 25-06 taken away from them because they don't know how to use it.

If indeed you feel that a 100gr bullet in a 25-06 is inadequate for the game you intend to hunt you probably need a bigger bore cartridge to shoot it out of.

I've been using the 25/06 since the early 60's and for the way I use it (obviously I must have no idea what I'm doing ) the 120gr is just right, thank you.

Allen DeGroot wrote:

quote:

Show me someone who loads 120grain bullets in a 25-06 and I'll show you someone who sould have their 25-06 taken away from them because they don't know how to use it.

Boy oh boy...what a load of fresh fertilizer...

The heavier 115-120 grain projectiles are what set the quarterbores apart from the 6mms as their on-game performance is notably more authoritative.

Use what you want. Shoot what you want. But to make a blanket statement like you did is pure bull.

quote:

either will work just fine and i would suggest taking the one that you personally have the most confidence in.

Enough said

Up around Butte, they got those Kelvar mines and they've spread tailings all over. You'd best pack your .378 Weatherby, just in case !

I like the .257 Wby as a mulie cartridge, so the .25-06 would be my choice. It would also be very hard to find a reason not to like a .270 for this kind of hunt.

Any caliber from .25 on up can be used effectively for mulies. The .24 (6mm) can be used, but I have found them a little on the light side for really big bucks, but they have been used to kill a lot of them. The various 6.5's are great because of the heavy for caliber bullets they can handle. If you have a good accurate 6.5, it is realy effective on mulies.

If I had to pick a favorite, it would be the 7mm Rem Mag with a 160gr Nosler Partition. I have carried that rifle and load for years and it has never let me down. Since I also hunt elk at the same time, I can use the same rifle and load for both. The same thing can be said for the various .30 calibers on up. All are effective on deer and will cleanly take elk if you are hunting both.

That is something that can not be said for the .24-.25 calibers. I believe they simply do not have enough bullet weight for elk and I'm not all together sold on them being used on really big mulie bucks. And before you get you knickers in a knot, I know they have been used successfully by many hunters, but I have had to follow up a lot of wounded deer and elk that have been shot by 6mm and .25 rifles.

Since you have both a 25-06 and a 300, I'd recommend taking the 300. It can do anything the 25-06 can do, but the 26-06 can not do everything the 300 can. Big heavy bodied mulies are tough and you don't want to wound one and have to chase it down in the bottom of a canyon. You will be shooting at a lot longer ranges that you have in Florida and a big mulie buck will equal about 3 Florida Whitetails in body weight.

I've been in on the taking of over 200 mulies and well over 100 elk. I make my opinions on what I have seen in the field and not what I've read in a magazine. Feel free to disagree if you wish.

Mac

Swampcat, you have a couple of very good choices. I'd suggest you lean on the one that you're the most intimate with, both are good rounds.

That's some good an fun country you're going into and you should really enjoy yourself.

What time of year are you coming out?

Don't forget a good camera, chapstick and sunglasses.

Mark D


(also, if you don't mind who are you hunting with?)