In my opinion what we need is a standard test for bullet performance that actually reflects hunting conditions. Ballistic gelatin or a tank of water is great for producing mushrooms for advertising photos, but I assume that the ammo companies have something better for measuring real-world performance. The closest I have seen was the test that Gun Tests ran a couple of years ago using a 1-qt bag of water (which produces a reflected shock wave) and 3" of bacon.

Anecdotal evidence, while useful, does not really measure differences in bullets. Too many confounding factors.

I don't think there can be a standardized test medium that can accurately duplicate the field performance of a certain bullet. In real hunting conditions, the shot placement, size of the animal hunted and tense vs. a relaxed animal are all veriables that are hard to duplicate in any test media.

In synthetic medium a non-premium soft point may mushroom perfectly but it might explode into fragments on the stout shoulder joint of a cape buffalo.

I've always thought killing a lot of stuff with a given bullet is the best standardized test.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
I've always thought killing a lot of stuff with a given bullet is the best standardized test.

Yes....and I'm surprised that companies like Nosler, Hornady, speer etc are not shooting cows/pigs and then butchering them for consumption. They maybe wouldn't want the world to know about it.....but it's a way to get accurate test data.

Many years ago the country to our south used prisoners to test military weapons.....

Corax: I fully agree with Brad on this one.
That is why I use Nosler bullets for Big Game Hunting in all of my Rifles and all my calibers.
Proven performance is just that - proven!
I have no motivation what so ever to try any other make, model or brand of bullet.
The Noslers have served me EXCEPTIONALLY well since the early 1960's - they are proven by me and by many of my trusted Hunting partners who have also used them for decades!
Thats 40 plus years of consistent performance, consistent accuracy, consistent availability, consistent lethality and moderate prices Nosler has provided for me!
Consistency without exception!
If I may illustrate my last harvest using Nosler bullets. Last year I was tracking Elk in SW Montana with a Hunting companion. I got lucky and came upon a herd of 200+ Elk heading toward me! I counted 13 Bulls in the herd and took the time to repeatedly range them with my Leica Laser Rangefinder as they came my way - 346 yards was the reading when I shot at my chosen Bull!. I had also taken the time to fully extend my Harris Bi-pod and turned my Leupold Variable 3.5x10 up to full power! When my chosen Bull turned broadside and stopped I shot him once through the heart lung area! He died in his tracks. That beautiful fully mature Bull (my best!) was not knocked off his feet (I did not expect him to be!) he just staggered there for about 6 or 8 seconds bled out fully - and fell dead!
The 160 grain Nosler Partition ruined both lungs and the heart! Perfect performance to say the least!
With the accuracy and lethality of that Nosler Partition I was able to save virtually EVERY ounce of edible meat from that Bull! I did also save the liver as the VarmintWife loves Elk Liver! But the heart was not salvageable!
Also out of this particular Rifle (Remington 700 Classic in 7mm Remington Magnum) these 160 gr. Nosler Partitions are VERY accurate! They print .50" 3 shot groups at 100 yards - consistently!
I killed 4 other head of Big Game last year with various Nosler bullets. All performed flawlessly!
Closing in now on 200 head of Big Game harvested with Noslers I would not describe as anecdotal evidence - any more. We (Nosler and I) have long since passed into proven performance!
I have never fired a Nosler bullet into a test medium of any kind other than the flesh, bone and sinew of a wide variety of Big Game Animals.
The bullet controversy (if in reality there EVER was one) has LONG been settled, for me! Nosler, is the proven answer.
Long live Nosler!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

For any manufactured item, whether it is cold rolled steel or gas turbines, there is typically a standard test or set of conditions. When a change is made to the equipment, it is measured against the standard conditions. The standard test should relate to the real world, but the main thing is that it is reproducible. Shooting animals is not reproducible, for obvious reasons. You need to shoot a few animals to calibrate the standard test, of course. When a steel mill makes a batch of steel, they dont test it by building a bridge and driving trucks over it, but by testing a small sample.

Hey Corax, Nothing duplicates shooting actual Game, including shooting actual Game.

If you shoot enough Game, you will notice some "similarities" in kills when using a similar Bullet Design Envelope, at a similar Impact Velocity at a similar Point of Impact. But once you kill enough Game it is apparent there are always "exceptions" with those exact same Bullets at the exact same Impact Velocities at the exact same Points of Impact.

The only exception to the above would be a "deep penetrating" bullet breaking apart the spine or destroying the brain. Game killed in this manner always dies the same - dead as they are falling to the ground.

However, there are all kinds of various Test Media from water to steel and everything in between including Ballistic Gellatin. Each has good and bad points and whatever is used, there will be people who claim it isn't representative of actual Game. And they are correct.

Fortunately, the various Test Medias provide a more consistent base for comparison than actual Game. The trick is to find a Test Media which is relatively easy to work with, can be duplicated by anyone, does not require a Lab in order to be useful and provides "Bullet Data" which is relatively close to actual on-Game kills.

Here is a link to the very best Bullet Test I've ever seen available for civilian viewing. And the thing that really makes it outstanding is it "closely" reflects the actual Weight Retention, Expansion and Depth of Penetration that I've first hand experience with (using Bullets with similar Design Envelopes) over 5 decades.

http://www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg

The Chart is $15 direct from Mr. Sciuchetti(including postage) and I can recommend it as well worth the minimal cost.

gsciuchetti@yahoo.com
Gary D. Sciuchetti
14610 E. Bill Gulch Road
Mead, WA 99021

I ready on one of the forums recently where a guy had placed a bunch of 4 liter plastic milk jugs filled with water in a row. He put pieces of cardboard between them (can't remember why). He would shoot diffrent bullets into these rows of water filled jugs and record how many were penetrated and what the bullet expanded like. I have been saving up plastic milk jugs to do some of this testing. When I'm through with them they will go to recycling and I will have an idea how some bullets perform compaired to others.

Robin