Show me any predator in nature (besides a few humans) that gives its prey 'fair chase' as you seem to want to define it. What am I supposed to do, stand up and shout "RUN" then shoot? Give me a break. Whan I want a challeng e I break out the shotgun and bird hunt. When I want to fill the freezer and spend time afield, give me a rifle.

Besides, have YOU ever tried stalking a deer in 3" tall 500+ acre winter rye fields?

Not hunting? To each their own. Harvesting, maybe. Shooting, only a small part of the story, and to imply otherwise insults those of us who shoot hundreds of rounds each year to improve our skills.

"Is it fair chase, to set up a Bean Field rifle, then snipe at animals from outside their safety zone?

That�s shooting, not hunting."

"There is a few Hunters and riflemen that can take 300-400+ yard shots as cleanly as the normal hunter can at 250-300 yards."


Actually it's killing, not hunting. Or call it "harvesting" or some other non-judgemental term. If you can do it at a quarter mile and drop him, it's called putting venison in the pot, hanging some meat in the barn, filling the freezer, or maybe just proving something to the boys back at the range. But at that range it sure isn't hunting.

Roger, this isuue has been debated to the point of absurdity to the tenth power of ad nauseum. You are free to take your own beliefs afield and hunt as you desire, so are the rest of us. When you think your standards are applicable to others I start thinking you're a bit liberal. I don't buy your premises FWIW.

"If you, the hunter, are in the outermost circle, the animal doesn�t see you, hear you, smell you, and doesn�t know you exist as a threat. That�s because you aren�t a threat because you are too far away."

My last three deer were less than a dozen yards from me when I shot. I still hunt mostly, and I don't think I was too far away. I think I'm better than their defenses up close, and I also have the option of exercising mastered skills and taking them at much longer range if I choose to do so. Fair chase is a euphemism for ill defined ideals. Any approach to harvesting game entails limitations attendant to the approach and chosen equipment, it is your obligation as a sportsman to recognize them, and proceed accordingly. I dare say you cannot present a defensable platform to define acceptable limits in regard to range, firearms, or much of anything else on this subject.

If you are of the opinion that YOU cannot ensure a kill at X yards, do not assume that others can't or shouldn't. You should however bow to that personal belief and get closer. At some point in this convoluted mess you may find yourself catching live hogs by hand and conclude that steel implements are unethical, and that it's not hunting, it's shooting at any range. Call it what you wish.

Regards,

An Opinionated Conservative

I wouldn't not call it hunting as it is all hunting as defined under the law. It would be more along the lines of degree of difficulty of hunting with a certain method. To me it is more difficult to get close in on an animal and shoot it with a bow or shotgun. It takes very little difficulty or effort to drive your pick-up to a field and shoot that same buck standing 600yds away on the otherside of the field watching you as you fold out your bipod or set up a rest, I could shoot several animals a day that way and it dosen't interest me much. I just go to the range when I want to shoot long distance. I prefer to add a little more challenge to my hunting, just shooting them at long range is too easy for me.

Puuuuleeez, lets don't get started on this again. I read a post by one of the long range shooters. And it was a very thoughtful and thought out post. The fellow had obviously made quite a study of deer behaviour and how to anticipate when and if the deer was going to move and so forth. (He used a coyote howler to "freeze" the deer when he was ready to shoot) He shot from a bench at known distances. Quite apparently he had spent a lot of time and money in pursuing his hobby. His post did not change my mind nor imbue me with a sudden desire to shoot a deer in the next postal zone but I did understand his interest better and could see that what he did, he did well.
My problem is the folks that want to use long range shooting as a "in your face, I'm more macho than you" thing. They want to talk that talk but they don't spend the time and money and practice needed to walk that walk. They hear that someone has shot a deer at 1000 yards, so, of course, they've got to start popping at deer in the next county without the slightest idea what they're doing. If they're too lazy to do the things needed to make long range shots, they're certainly too lazy to walk 1000 yards to see if they have wounded an animal.
How far is TOO FAR? You have to decide that for yourself; however, it should be a distance that you regularly practice at. Using field positions, ie, sitting, kneeling, propped against a tree, etc. Not some hypothetical zero that you've gotten out of a book -oh, that's right, I mean 'puter program.