All the major manufactures build a safe and reliable rifle. Each have there good and bad points. The savage are "great" shooters out of the box but I can not get over the sloppy actions and cheap looking stocks. I have never had a bad remington, ruger, sako or winchester for that matter. Some just shot better than others. They all kill game if you do your part. For the pure love of a rifle for me its a pre 64 Model 70. I have six in different calibers. None are particualrly awsome shooters but with the right load I can all within the holy 1" group. That being said the gun I love to shoot the most is a Remingtom Model 7 in .17 rem. Coyote and bobcat don't seem to like it though.

I just went to a remington armors school this year. I wasn't impressed when the information I heard from the factory Rep. the last few years instead of improving their products like savage it seems more time has been spent cheaping the product cost less test of the product ect. They now cut their chambers by turning the reamer instead of the barrel causing off center chambers but cost less money. They only test fire one in 20 rifles after proofing. The reb said when we get a bad one back we fix. Takes to much time to test fire them all. No remington is more concerned with not getting sued and pinching pennys then turning out the best product they can. That said I do own some older remington products and have had mostly good luck with them. But then I had to some work on some to get them to shoot properly. I think most people would rather spent the extra five bucks to make sure it works then having something they have to spend more dollars getting it fix.

Nathan,

What are you going to use the rifle for? The heavy barreled rifles are that way forever. It does not take a heavy barrel that's made well to shoot small two or three shot groups.

A Smith & Wesson rep. told me and the gunshop owner that they are making the 700 barreled actions. Why this is I don't know but maybe it's either the cheapest price or the class action lawsuit.

While I wish Remington well I would not touch a new one with an eleven foot pole. Your right that the Savage's are ugly to our taste. Some don't see this however. I bought a new Savage last summer and sent it back. They never read my letter with the details but instead did other work on it that was a complete waste of both my time and money and theirs as well. I sold the rifle and lost $210 on the deal. That's not much money to me but it's a lot to others and nothing to some here.

I wish I could pick a brand for you. For a "price" rifle look at the Winchesters and Rugers.

Well, it seems everyone here has to put everyone else into a Remington, Savage, Winchester, etc. group so to speak. And I guess I am definitely in the Remington camp, there is not another brand of rifle in the safe. But, I have to admit that the new ones are probably not up to the standards of some of the older models.

Having said that, the new Winchester Model 70's I have looked at recently seem like the quality has improved.

In regard to the Savage, I know they shoot, but they are so butt ugly that I would not buy one. I would not even consider one that did not have the new Accu-Trigger.

The only VLS I own is chambered for 7-08 and is extremely accurate. It is stock except for the addition of a Jewell trigger. Any day that it will not shoot 1/2 inch groups with Sierra Matchkings I know it is my fault, not the gun's.
It shoots pretty darned close to one inch groups at 100 yards with cast bullets even.

If you do not mind the weight, buy the VLS, I am sure it will be a good gun for you.

R F

For a stock out of the box rifle...SAKO.