A gundealer I have known since the 60's told me this story today. He hunts for deer from the Carolinas to here in New England and last season he shot 15 whitetails with his 260 Rem M7 using 120 gr Sierra's and Ballistic tips. The performance was excellent. He only takes easy shots from a stand and has won a national title in shooting. This guy can shoot.

The guy he was having butcher the deer complained about meat damage and convinced him to shoot the 125 gr Nosler Partitions. He lost the only two deer shot with that bullet! He insists they were hit good. Both deer were trailed for a long time and he ran out of blood sign.

This guy has plenty of money to buy anything and then some. He is so rattled by it that at the moment he is warming up a 350 RM for deer!

I told him that I like the lighter faster bullets for whitetails no matter what the caliber. He agrees as he has shot quite a few of them with 250's out of a Whelan and the performance is ordinary at best.

Two questions. First feedback on the 125 6.5mm Partition at 20" 260 velocities and what bullet would you shoot out of a 350 for deer? The ranges would be woods distances. He has bean field rifles. He has everything.

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Originally posted by Savage99:
.......what bullet would you shoot out of a 350 for deer? The ranges would be woods distances...

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I would go for the Barnes 225 gr X bullet. I like their performance. Have used the Barnes X in the .375 H&H on deer. At about 100 yards I got good expansion and did not destroy as much meat as my .300 w/ the Nosler BT does

Savage, not to start a storm here, but there's a bit of difference between Sierra's and BT's, I don't think they are comparable. Sierra makes harder cores if anything, than the Ballistic Tips, they aren't as frangible. I don't see a causal relationship there between the two brands and his success with them. And we're going to have to speculate about where the two partitions actually hit the deer I guess. I have to assume that since the deer were lost, that for whatever reason the bullets didn't hit the boiler room. Just the way I see it.

The best bullets that I have found for the 260 are at the opposite end of the weight class. I have had good performance from the 100 grain partition, the 120 ballistic tips and the 140 grain Hornady spire point. The 140 Hornady works like magic and not much meat damage. As far as the 35 goes, the 35 Remington is the only 35 I would use for deer.

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Originally posted by DigitalDan:
And we're going to have to speculate about where the two partitions actually hit the deer I guess. I have to assume that since the deer were lost, that for whatever reason the bullets didn't hit the boiler room.

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Apparently it wasn't enough of a "large and humane wound", blowing away half of the deer.

My response would be to tell him to go back to the 120 BT, and keep putting them into the heart. If his butcher is complaining about the minimal amount of damage done to a deer's ribs by a balistic tip, he needs a new butcher.
All the butchers I know are quite capable of cutting out a section of rib and tossing it into the waste can. Heck, Ive only butchered a few of my own deer and elk, but I have easily acquired that much skill through trial and error.

With all due respects.....the .260 Rem is a potent and fast shooting cartridge and the number of positive testimonials of the Nosler Partician will far over shadow this incident......and it may be totally true but in the face of overwhelming historical evidence it must be disnissed.

I used a 6.5x55 on deer for years .Always tried for lung shots with 140 Norma or Hornady.Damage was always minimal, as little as perhaps 3 Oz.Ranges were usually within 50 yds ,velocity 2750. Having butchered deer shot with 130 gr 270s I'll stick with the 6.5 !!

If it works out I may talk to him again late next. I have a carton of .35 cal. 200 PSP Coreloks I want to liquidate and he seems like a ready customer.

In both 350 RM and 35 Rem I use the 200 Hornady Sptz, great whitetail load. I also used the 200 Core Loct also good results but I found the Hornadies fly better.
bigbull

If you want some more input on the 125gr. Partition go over to Nosler's Website. The .260 is pretty popular over there.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpbb2/index.php

99, Barsness reported a couple of years ago that the 125 Nosler is too hard for 260 speeds... claims it was designed for the 264 WM and reports similar problems to those of your friend. I'd stick with a 120 B-Tip or 129 Hdy...

Thanks Brad. I remembered the bullet up for debate at 260 velocities but I could not recall the detail that you did. In fact I did not buy 125 Partitions for my 260 but 100 gr Partitions. There is a note in Nosler #5 to the effect that the 100 gr Partition is a favorite with 260 deer hunters.

Live and learn.

I think I will bring it up on the Nosler forum.

Savage99,

I've seen quite a few whitetails lost to partitions especially the small cals. Same story, long sparse blood trail eventually ending (small exit gets clogged up). Some times we spread out and found the deer, sometimes used dogs, and alot of the time they were lost. When they were found there was tiny entrance and exit holes. Not my cup of tea!

I think the NPs are a good bullet when used on big game but, whitetails are just to small to offer enough resistance for the bullets to act at their full potential. Now, when you push them at Magnum velocities that's a different story.

Simply put, whitetails can be easily taken w/ any "Plain Jane" bullet. Heck, most deer are taken w/ cheapie CLs and PPs.

I'd advise him to stay w/ the NBTs. If he stays w/ the NPs, he might as well break the shoulders but, then his butcher is gonna gripe some more about lost meat.

"If it aint broke, don't fix it!"


Good Luck!

Reloader

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Originally posted by Brad:
99, Barsness reported a couple of years ago that the 125 Nosler is too hard for 260 speeds... claims it was designed for the 264 WM and reports similar problems to those of your friend. I'd stick with a 120 B-Tip or 129 Hdy...

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I shot 5 roe (about 30lb weight ready for the larder) and one red calf (about 80lb weight)out my 6.5x55 (2,900fps mv) all were shot at around the 80yard mark except the red which was 250yds.

The damage to chest shot roe was much worse than my normal 2,950fps 100gr BT load! The damage to the off shoulder of the red was pretty impressive too - so from my point of view I don't believe this.

I am about to attempt to shoot a bunch of fallow with the exact same load so will report.

This is all great info on the .260 and Nosler bullets.

What I have a hard time believing is that your friend is so ready to ditch the .260 if he is as experienced as you state he is. I would think the experienced call would be to go back to the bullet that's worked well in the past; not running off in a panic to Magnum-ville.

RSY

1894, honestly, when I first read the Barsness report I didn't believe it either... it may be that Nosler has changed the bullet (they do that a LOT) and it's now designed to open at lower speeds... after all, there ARE a lot more 260/6.5x55's floating around than 264 WM's...

I have not used 125 partitions much, since I do not use my 6,5 in really large game and always found conventional bullets produced faster kills, but so far never had a problem with an animal hit square in the center of the ribs.
And I am talking roe deer, which would make 70 lps at the most.
This is a 125gr Partition recoverd from a Spanish Ibex one of my clients shot. The shot was taken at 210 yards and the load was a factory 6,5x57R by Hirtenberger that chronographed at 2,800 pps (far from advertised).


Even at such anemic speed the 125 partitioned opened up, producing significative damage and killing the Ibex very quickly.
Just my 2c.
Montero

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The guy he was having butcher the deer complained about meat damage and convinced him to shoot the 125 gr Nosler Partitions. He lost the only two deer shot with that bullet! He insists they were hit good. Both deer were trailed for a long time and he ran out of blood sign.

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I use the 125-grain NP in my .260 Rem at around 2700 fps and so far four deer have either dropped in their tracks or not made it past 20 yards before collapsing, and with complete pass-throughs. I shoot for the arteries at the top of the heart. I can only speculate that shot placement was off on the two deer that got away.

As with all Partitions, the front end is quite soft and readily expansive, and the rear is, well, what it is inteded to be.

While I agree that "conventional" bullets are usually all that is needed on whitetails, there is absolutely no problem with Partitions working equally as well. My son shot a 125 pound (weighed, no less) whitetail with a 180 grain Partition out of a .30-06 this fall (because he had just come back from an elk hunt and hadn't had time to resight for his normal 150 grain Ballistic Tip loads.) The little deer hit the ground in a heap and the wound showed plenty of expansion. The same is true of dozens of whitetail I have taken with a 140/6.5 (used not because it was necessary for whitetails, but because it shot the best of any bullet in my gun.)

Can a Partition fail? Certainly, but not very often. Are they too "hard" for whitetails? No, because their front portions almost always rapidly expand.

Hmmmmmmmm. I shot over 30 deer this year using a 22-250 loaded with 40 grain nosler ballistic tips. All instant one shot kills in the neck. He may want to drop down to a .22 caliber. The .260 should be used only on dangerous game.

Here is a picture of how it is done.

I use the 125 Partition in my 264 at longer ranges. At 300 yards, it should be traveling at about 260 velocities and of the two I shot at long range, I have never had a deer walk more than a step or two. One through the lungs, one through the shoulder. Plenty of blood to trail, if I had to.
Shot placement was probably not exactly where it could have been. A BT will be more forgiving in the 260 just because it does more tissue damage. I use the 120 BT for my 6.5-06AI and it works great.

Contrary to some of the most popular threads ever on this board...the best information about a bullet and its intended uses at various velocities is available from those who manufacture it. Although 6.5mm pills dont shed energy and downrange velocity as quickly as most...they do start out rather slow after sitting in a 260Rem case... out of sporter length tubes. A poly tipped bullet in the rib cage would be my choice... if the butcher was bitching the BTs must have been placed in the shoulders.

An arrow through the lungs=a dead deer; therefore I would think that any bullet that passes through the lungs should also result in a dead deer. I always wonder how people lose an animal,then claim to have made a heart shot,or a double lung shot.

Unfortunatley Ive no experience with the 6.5's on deer, may have to remedy that. For the 350 RM I would suggest the 180 gn or 220 gn Speers as they will open up reliably on smallish Whitetails. You may even want to load down the 180's a bit so as not to "splatter" the deer like a large varmint.

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Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
For the 350 RM I would suggest the 180 gn or 220 gn Speers as they will open up reliably on smallish Whitetails. You may even want to load down the 180's a bit so as not to "splatter" the deer like a large varmint.

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I agree with this. I saw my friend again yesterday and mentioned the feedback in this thread. While the opinions expressed were not all one way or the other he and I conclude that the 125 Partition did not make a large enough hole.

I saw this as a chance to sell him some of the 1000 200 gr .35 cal. Pt'd. SPCL's that have been haunting me for a decade. I just don't use them. So now he has 200 of them for his .350 RM.

If a partition in 6.5 mm failed to drop the game;

I'd be inclined to blame shot placement before I would ever blame the bullet.

Any of my experience, with a partition on deer size game out of something smaller than a 30/06 and I have not seen a failure.

Cheers
thunderbolt

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Originally posted by M16:
Hmmmmmmmm. I shot over 30 deer this year using a 22-250 loaded with 40 grain nosler ballistic tips. All instant one shot kills in the neck. He may want to drop down to a .22 caliber. The .260 should be used only on dangerous game.

Here is a picture of how it is done.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/248178.JPG

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M16:

You can't take a deer with a 22 caliber and a varmint bullet. Just consult with the "experts" on the forum, who will explain to you why that does not work. Some one else in the area with a larger caliber and a silencer must have dropped those two deer.

The only thing that gets me, are those texas deer that dumb, that two are dropped with a shot and they are still milling around grazing?
That is what is amazing to me about that picture.

cheers
thunderbolt

Look again. There are three deer down in the picture. There is another one down in the lower left hand corner. And yes they are that dumb. I could have dropped a couple more but don't like to clean more than three at a time.

I've seen deer three or four times as big killed with a rimfire. The size of them deer layin there anything bigger than a .22hornet would be overkill. I think my housecat could do one of them in without too much trouble.

Oscar,

By Oregon blacktail standards, those are average sized deer. Kinda pitiful isn't It???

cheers
seafire

I shot two pronghorn antelope at about 350-375 yards and a big 8 point whitetail buck at about 15 yards with my 264 win mag.I was impressed with the way it hit them.I use the Lapula 155 gr mega tip bullet.I dont know if the 260 remington would drive it fast enough.I shot some deer about 20 years ago with 300 win mag and 338 win mag with partitions .They zipped right through them hardly any expansion at all.I switched to softer bullets and they both preformed awesome.The 120 gr Remington corelock should work awesome in the 260 remington.Craig Boddington shot some deer at 200 yards with the 260 dont know the bullet but he lost the deer too.I think a softer light bullet 120 gr or a soft 140 gr bullet would be the bullet for using the 260 remington on deer.

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I could have dropped a couple more but don't like to clean more than three at a time.

Indeed. Gutting three game animals is a piece of work, especially when to be done at night.

However, opportunities like these are unfortunately rare...

The 125g Nos Part is my favorite bullet in my 6.5-06. I have taken 8 deer with this bullet with very consistent and excellent performance. I reload the bullet at about 3100 fps and most of my shots are in the 250 yd range. I tried the 140g Nos Part and found it too tough. At 260 velocities, I would stay with the 120g Sierra or Speer or if you are lucky enough to find them, the 120g Nos Solidbase which is what I plan to use in my 260.......LR

Savage 99,
I am sure that is what he told you and that is what he believes.
Beiing a lifetime user of Nosler Partitions in a large variety of calibers, I have a hard time believing that a deer hit with a good lung shot by a 125 Gr. NP .264 cal. would escape.
The whole essence of the NP being the front end being rather frangible and expand rapidly the back stay intact for deep penetration.
Something went wrong, but I tend to look at scope being off, loose action/scope screws, branches deflecting a shot or............perhaps a flubbed shot( it really happens to the best of us).
Before giving up a fine rifle/caliber combo for deer, he may be ought to check a few things out before moving to a moose/big bear rifle like the .350Rem.

When employed as a biologist working on Polarbears,I carried for years a .350 Rem. Mag for personal protection. I let my Eskimo companions shoot their polarbears with it.
It really flattened those big white bears.

By the way,just a thought....................how much does he want for that crappy M7 in that inadequate deer caliber?????

I was in the gunshop and I saw a sold tag on a M 7 in 260. Maybe that was his.

This guy has many rifles from famous late gunwriters. One of his "beanfield" rifles is an orginal pre 64 in 275 H&H!

There is a possiblility that the Partitions did not hit the deer right. They trailed one a long way but there was so little sign.