A buddy of mine has recently started hunting again, after about 20 years..(He's 38 or so)

He bought a Tikka 30-06, good choice IMHO.

He has been been practicing with 165gr bullets.

I am going to help him with some handloads.He doesn't have any loading gear, so we basically want a 'do-all' load.

I suggested that we make a load with a 180gr Partition.

Anyways...I'm a "heavy bullet' guy, but he wants the lighter 165gr loads. The only .30 cal rifles I hunt with are mags, so I pick 180gr bullets as a matter- of- course

Because he wants to have a hunting load for deer, elk, moose and bear, I say use the 180gr Partition and be done with it.You'll only use a couple of inches at 300...

However, I am sure that a 165gr Partition can do the job just fine...But I'm in the 'what if-bad angle crowd.'

Thos load will only be used on big game- no gophers!

What do you think?

Gater;

With only 15 grains difference in the 165 vs the 180, I don't think you are sacraficing much if anything if both are partitions. The 165 can be driven at 2900 fps with some of the newer load manuals ( and some of the old ones from the 1960s). Nosler even listed a load with Reloder 19 or 22 at 3,000fps with the 165.

The only thing I think the 180 has over the 165 is tradition and being used a long time. Some of like the difference in 10w40 or 10w30 motor oil. Some old timers swear by 10w40, and think 10w30 will blow up their engine! Crazy.

Both will work just fine up thru Elk or Moose in my opinion, and experience. Either choice there is no looser! Other choices connected to hunting should have such happy outcomes either way.

That's a good choice in 165 or 180. You can also look at the Failsafe and the X bullet as they get more peneratration also. I shoot 150 or 165 for most of my 30/06. (But then again I have a 180 grain partition load too.) See what is accurate in his gun and go from there.

Hcliff

30 06 is an excellent choice for all big game. Your load choice would depend on the rifle. Every rifle shoots different loads and bullet weights different. My 700 Remington shoots 165's like theres no tomorrow. The trick is finding a load that shoots accurate in the rifle and stick with it. Accuracy will instill confidence and then all you will need is the game.

good luck
nicktr

As I've posted before, when I was fishing bass tournies, the common wisdom was to rig for the biggest fish you hoped to catch in the worst conditions you might encounter. That's good wisdom for hunting also.
I'm a "niche man" myself. Developing one load for a rifle and using it for everything. That said, I've taken several deer using a 30-06 with a 165 gr corelokt bullet. Its a fine performer but when you throw moose and elk into the mix, I think I would opt for the bit of added insurance a 180 would give me. A 180 partition. In truth, any of the 180gr standard bullets should give you good service. That's what they were designed for: a 30-06 @2700-2800fps

Here's a good thread started by JJHACK discussing his recent experiences using a .30-06 with the new 165gr Hornady InterBond bullets in Africa.

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007897

He used it on Gemsbok, Kudu, Wildebeest and Zebra with good results. I'm going to give these new 165gr Hornady Interbonds a try.

-Bob F.

I'd think the 165 gr. Partition would do the job, but 180 gr. would be my preffered weight in the Partition. The 165 gr. Interbond would be a good choice though, as would the Barnes X as well. I'd shoot a moose with any premium 165 gr. @ 2800 fps +/-, they'll all work, Grand Slams, Bear Claws, A-Frames, X's, (not Fail Safes, they don't work), Partitions, etc. 180 gr. will give you more penetration, which might be needed on moose. Just stick to a premium 165 gr. or 180 gr., and he'll be fine.

[ 08-01-2003, 22:24: Message edited by: todbartell ]

If premium bullets are used 165's will work fine.

Nosler partition 180gr, fed 210, Max load of H4350 and never think about it again....unless you just want to experiment of course.

It's splitting hairs. Use a 165 gr premium (to me, a Partition or new Interbond) on heavier game and a Hornady Interlock on lighter game. Or use the same in a 180 gr. The game won't know the difference.

For heaven's sake it's a 30.06,it will be most likely be used on mule deer,blacktail and maybe moose.With moderate pressure and accuracy you will be maxing out at 2800 for 165 or 2700 for 180,with almost the same ballistics. .SSTs in 308 hold together OK in wet phonebooks and and shoot great. NPs have never shot for me in a couple of rifles.SSTs are much cheaper,thus more likely to be practiced with.

Gates, I think along the same line as you. However, as much as I like Fail Safes if your buddy wants one load does all from small to large game, My recommendation would be for 180 grain Swift A-Frames. You can't go wrong with 180 grains firstly, and the A-Frames will give enough penetration with more consistent expansion. That's my two bits anyway.

I also think that the 180 is hard to beat, in fact I have some 200 grainers that Im going to try as well. At 2600 fs they will kill anything that I am likley to cross and the amount of drop @ 300 yds wont be much more than a 165.

Gatehouse - I have two thoughts after reading these posts. First, JJHack makes a hell of a case for his 165gr bullet!

Secondly, I wonder if we are missing what your friend is REALLY saying with his preference for the 165 i.e. "I'm recoil sensitive."

I don't know that this is his real reason for wanting a lighter bullet. Maybe he had just rather have a bit more velocity and flatter trajectory?

Whatever, considering these two choices I think he needs to use whatever he shoots best and feels most confident with. If that's the 165, so be it. I figure a perfect hit with 165 grs beats a mediocre hit from a 180.

I would turn him loose to follow what he thinks best.......unless there is a pretty high percent chance he's going to walk up on a grizzly. Then I think I'd want AT LEAST 180 gr.

The /06 and 165 gr bullets were almost made for each other.

Gatehouse,

IMHO, one of the main reasons the '06 is such an excellent "all around" rifle is the broad selection of bullet weights and styles to match to the game being hunted. The dream of one rifle, one bullet for all game is a nice dream, but very hard to come by. It comes very close to reality with the 165 grain bullet in an '06 if the animals hunted don't go over 400 pounds. The use of a GOOD bullet, well placed can raise that weight to about 500 pounds on the hoof. While the 165 grainers will take larger game, its a strech I'd rather not make. If moose, grizzlies, big elk are the targets, I think the 180s should be used. Good luck.

i have been useing the 180 nosler for years now and have taken all my game animals with it with no problem moose elk caribou sambar etc etc however the last year or so i have been doing some serious testing with the 200 gn nosler at 2700-2750 fps and i may make it my bullet of choice now after a bit more testing ....i think it tends to break bones/shoulders more freqentley then 180 s ...or at least thats the impression i have got .. time will tell
daniel

I set up a friend of mine with do-it-all 200 grain nosler partition loads in a 30-06. They worked on elk.

For elk using a 30-06, I prefer a 220 grain for shots under 300 yards.

For deer only, I like 150 or 165 ballistic tips. But those bullets are too light for quartering or rear shots on large animals. And life being what it is, not all shots are perfect

Given a choice between the 2 weights in the same bullet I'd invariably opt for the heavier of the two, particularly with other than premium bullets. With the Partition or other premiums I think there is little significance in a 15 gr weight spread as to what the results will be. The vaiables a bullet faces in the terminal phase are too numerous to favor one over the other in a 30-06 size case or larger. I MIGHT lean toward the 165 in a .308 or .300 Savage.

Make your friend happy...

Personally I can't detect the difference in recoil and the velocity gain isn't much in my rifle, but if that or something else about the 165-gr. makes your friend feel confident, go for it and with a tough bullet it should work great.

165grainers in 30-06, try the Hornady Interbond.

[ 08-07-2003, 02:56: Message edited by: 4bambam ]

" ONe gun, ONe bullet, ONe powder"

Bam Bam???, Who let this guy in here???

Seafire,

quote:

---

ONe gun, ONe bullet, ONe powder"

Bam Bam???, Who let this guy in here???

---

Boring, but deadly.

[ 08-06-2003, 10:57: Message edited by: savage49494 ]

Pecos hit the nail on the head...

He flinches (and knows it, and admits it unabashedly)...This is from a guy who is tough as nails and seen more mountain peaks than most of us could imagine...He has made first ascents/ski descents on numerous peaks in BC and elsewhere...You could do far worse than him in your corner when the shit gets thick on a mountain. I've been outdoors in BC my whole life, but he makes me look like a weenie!

Anyways...we'll load up some 165gr Hornadys and 165gr Partitions...

Thanks all...

Savage,

Just the way most of us love to reload and shoot and hunting is just an excuse to justify our doing it, I just thought it was a funny slogan.

No offense meant to anyone. Just really made me smile. I am sure he can shoot and never questioned it.

I can't imagine my life if the gun control people got it down to that I could only have one firearm, and only buy one bullet type, and one powder.

To put into prospective for a Canadian, think of life, with One Beer, One Kind, One Can, Once a Day Only. You would have mass suicide from Victoria to St. John.

Seafire,

quote:

---

To put into prospective for a Canadian, think of life, with One Beer, One Kind, One Can, Once a Day Only. You would have mass suicide from Victoria to St. John.

---

That's the truth. No you don't have to worry about me being offended, it made me laugh but for a different reason. I like to do all my experimenting once till I get what I'm looking for and then I stick with it. Most of the calibres I have coincide with the same powders and bullet types. My son says it's because I'm cheap but in reality I like to keep things as simple as possible. Then I can spend my time doing things I enjoy rather than experimenting all the time.

If have an '06 -shoot everything from 130gr-180 gr out of it for what your freind wants to do-165gr x-bullets/fails safes etc. will take all he wants to shoot -I would just limit my shots to 250 yrds on the big stuff and be picky about the shot's taken. If he does want those limitations move up to 180s or 200s. I haven't notice that much difference in recoil between the weight either then again I'm not reoil sensitive either- shoot 454 pistol & rifle(6lbs gun) and the old '06 is a pussy cat!

I've shot some kind of big game with about all 30 cal bullets in the 06...I settled on the 180 and 200 gr. Noslers, depending on what I hunt..

The NorthForks and the Woodliehs are just as good and perhaps a smidgen better...there are so many good bullets out there today it still amazes this old curmurdgeon who survived the bullet failure days of the 40s and 50's even into the 60,s and 70's...

As far as mentioned above bigger cal than 06-also use the 165 Interbond in 300 wby and 30-378 with great results and accuracy. Will have the same accuracy as the Scirocco. Hope I did not goof up to bad Seafire, as the slogan was suppost to read

Gatehouse, I've been having the same conversation with our colleague Foxer, who also wants a "do-all" load for his .30-06 and has enlisted my assistance. Let me say at the outset that I've yet to meet a .30-06 that didn't like a 165-grain bullet. In my mind it is an ideal and efficient weight, and it mirrors the classic 168-grain match bullet weight that is the world standard in .30 caliber target and sniper shooting.

Therefore, I'd start my efforts with a good 165-grain bullet. I'm itching to try the Hornady Interbond, but recent fatherhood and a good supply of other bullets that need to be shot first will put that experiment on hold for a while. If you're planning to load one bullet for everything (which is really the smartest way to go) then I'd say you pretty well have to use a premium bullet, and the Interbond is the place to start. Otherwise, I'd definitely try the new 168-grain Barnes Triple X that everyone seems to be praising universally, as well as the 165-grain Nosler Partition and the FailSafe. One of those four should be all you'll ever need out of a .30-06.

For your info, John Barsness wrote an excellent article in Handloader Magazine (Dec '99/Jan '00) about what he believes to be the ideal load for the .30-06. In that article he makes a strong case for either a FailSafe or a Barnes X weighing 165 grains and pushed by something between 57 and 58.5 grains of IMR (or H) 4350. He compared penetration between those bullets and other popular .30 caliber bullets in the '06, including the 200-grain Partition, and he found that the Barnes X and FailSafe 165s kept up with the best of them.

I personally use 62 grains of Reloder 22 to push my 165-grain bullets out of a .30-06, and I've also had similar results with 61.5 grains of H4831SC. This keeps the pressures down. The muzzle blast is comparable to a .300 Winchester Magnum, though. However, 50 grains of Varget also gives outstanding accuracy, and it seems to generate a little less blast and recoil. Another plus is that the Varget load is also compatible with Garands, which cannot be said for the Reloder 22 loads.

Let us know your progress.

All rifles ARE different. I didn't get either the veloicty or accuracy with my 22" barreled .30-06 Rem. Mt. rifle with IMR 4350 but in my older 700 it has been throwing out 180 Noslers into 1 inch groups w/ 57 grs. of IMR 4350 for years. The Mt. Rifle showed excess pressure as well...split case.. with that same load. I worked up to 59 grains of WW760 behind a 165 Hornady for 2,825 fps and excellent groups. Used WW brass and WLRP's. The usual caveats..start 10% lower and work up!
Rich Elliott