Up in the admin forum I requested a Long Range forum. If any are interested, please let your voices be heard.

Looks like Whitworth and Tyler Kemp are already onboard!

Thanks

Andy

Whats long range? Long range means a lot of different things to a lot of people. Where does long range begin and normal hunting end?

Instead of a long range hunting forum how about a long range shooting forum? This way members can discuss all aspects of long range shooting and not just the taking of game. Because if it is just about hunting then you can post your pictures and hunt report in the proper forums.

Taylor,

There may exist here in American Big Game Hunting some folks that due to local terrain are forced to make shots over 500yds routinely. My official request to Saeed is for a combination hunting/shooting forum that would cover all aspects of hunting and shooting. It didn't make sense to me to ask about long range target shooting on a big game forum.

I tailored my request as per forum inquiring in. Note that I didn't ask for hunters in the benchrest/target shooting forum.

Thanks for your support!

Andy

Just my opinion here, but I don't believe anyone hunts anywhere that they are FORCED to shoot farther than 500 yards.

I recently watched a few minutes of the TV show Long Range Hunter, and they turned down a perfectly good bull elk, because it was 200 yards or less away.

Shooting at those ranges at game, is simply because the shooter wants to, nothing more, nothing less and I for one see it being about as useful as a Texas topic section.

Long range target shooting or even long range shooting at P Dogs is one thing. Slinging bullets at extended ranges at game animals is only for experts, if for anyone.

If an immediate kill is not obtained, how many animals will be lost, simply because some novice decided since the deer was not DRT, he missed and did not even go look for a blood trail.

If you want to become a sniper, join one of the armed services and haul your butt to Afganistan.

Game animals deserve better than that.

Your concern has been noted. Please stay out of the forum if created.


Thanks,
Sasquatch

I have watched the TV program touting long range shooting at game, but personally have always been taught to not take a shot at extreme ranges for fear of only wounding the animal. If you do wound the animal and it was shot at some distance of say 800yds., canyon, ravine to cross, your chances of recovery are greatly reduced simply by being some half a mile away from you. Not good.
The producers of the program go into considerable detail about the contruction of the rifle, the optics they use, which is simply a BDC system, and tend to make one believe that with such equipment, these long range shots at game are quite possible with their equipment.
In short, they are selling firearms and optics.
So be it, but having a well built rifle, whatever optics, is like the first step in a long journey. Those pesky little items known as trigger control, breathing, cheek weld, reading of the wind, mirage, follow through, quality of the loads,many rounds of practice,etc., are the real world items that make for good shooting. If you know the rifle, ballistics of the round, you can accomplish the same thing with about any scope out there. Contrary to popular belief, the scope does not make the rifle accurate, but rather the operator using the scope.
Bottom line for me anyway, is that those producing the program promoting hunting/shooting game at extreme ranges is the wrong thing to do, but again, that is just me.

The only time one would be "forced" to take shots of 500 yards and more would be if they were TOTALLY lacking in any HUNTING skills. So, the name of your preposed forum is kind of a oxymoran.

And too, for you to tell CH or anyone to stay out of a forum is quite a bit beyond your portfolio wouldn't you say?

quote:

The only time one would be "forced" to take shots of 500 yards and more would be if they were TOTALLY lacking in any HUNTING skills.

pretty broad brush you are painting with there
and i for one am going to raise the flag
there are and have been times in my hunting career that i have
"if i wanted to kill that creature"
had to shoot past 500 yds.
i've killed a dozen,maybe a dozen and a half
elk past 500 yds,my longest at 670 yds.
i don't seek out these set ups and have never backed off any animal to allow for a long range scenerio.
but to say with a blanket statement that the only way this can occur is the lack of hunting skills is
i for one would be very interested in a
long range "hunting/shooting" forem.

Crazyhorseconsulting: You said it better than I could have when you said: "Game animals deserve better than that" No one is forced to take long shots. If you can't get closer than 500 yds, you lack the skills to ETHICALLY hunt the game you're after. As far as I know, game bullets have certain velocity parameters that dictate optimum expansion and penetration characteristics, and should be used within those parameters. A game animal should never be viewed simply as a "target". 'nuff said.

so now its a lack of "ethics" that forces people to take longer range shots?

ravenr, re-read your silly-assed post and then plant that bullshit flag in your front yard. Set it in concrete while you're at it. You know, permenent like.
I made 15 DIY elk hunts to WY and killed 12 elk. NONE were further than 300 yards and damn few were further than 200 yards. And that is consistant with what other COMPETENT HUNTERS said that I've talked to.
I can understand how not having the truck hood to shoot acrost and getting out of sight of the road might cause security issues with you but, with work, that can be overcome.

Beeman,

If you don't like fine, that is your right as an American. Please stay out of the forum too.

Wouldn't it be better to have the ability and chose not to use it than to not have the ability and be forced to pass ?

We all have heard or been "taught" not to shoot long range for fear of wounding.

I take that with a grain scoop of salt. The teachers have had average or less than average calibers and equipment and more than likely no place to practice, no professional to help show the way, and no friends or family interest.

Technology changes all of this.

If an entity does not change with technology and or the environment they become dinosaurs and we all know what happened to them.

Does this mean I will no longer shoot an animal or a paper/metal target under 500?? Certainly not!!

But with enough practice and guidance I will know what it takes to get the job done correctly should opportunity rear its ugly head

Sasquatch

I thought it might be fun to get info from knowledgeable sources here about shooting at distances.

Since I'm basically a meat hunter, and principally hunt in Texas, the ability to effectively place a bullet in a 4 to 8" circle, consistently at ranges over 300 yds. has not been critical to my success.

I can see right now it might not be what I was envisioning.

So much for that idea.

Maybe a long range shooting forum

a long range "hunting" forum.

or just leave it as it is.

GWB

Hi GWB!

I was editing my last post as you were writing yours.

There are always going to be those opposed. I say take advantage of opportunity if you have the skill. How does one gain the skill? Knowledge and practice. Knowledge best gained from those with prior experience. hopefully they would be the ones answering questions on the forum.

Sasquatch

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Hi GWB!

I was editing my last post as you were writing yours.

There are always going to be those opposed. I say take advantage of opportunity if you have the skill. How does one gain the skill? Knowledge and practice. Knowledge best gained from those with prior experience. hopefully they would be the ones answering questions on the forum.

Sasquatch

I think that everybody can appreciate the frustration that comes with "long range hunting". Shows like Best of the West have come on and kind of made it look easy. There is no question that there is plenty of equipment out there thats capapable of making long range shots, the problem is that the people that go out and buy this stuff typically dont have the ability to pull it off. Its because they dont practice, they buy a gun with a scope, read a few instructions, sight it in at whatever distance "Zero" is in their scope and call it good

I've hunted with guys that could make long range shots and its a kick in the damn pants. Its come in handy a time or two when time wasnt on your side.

I've also hunted with guys that bought the equipment and THOUGHT they could make the shots. There is nothing more frustrating!

The only bright side to this is it normally doesnt take much time figuring out who can and who cant

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
so now its a lack of "ethics" that forces people to take longer range shots?

I fairness to Gracedog and Crazyhorse, we've all seen those idiots shooting 800+ yards on public ground because an animal was across a canyon and they were never gonna make it over there or they thought somebody else was going to beat them to it.

There are guys out there that can make these shots because they practice and know their equipment. The average guy doesnt do this. I think that this is why there is so much emotion tied to long range shots.

I'm not sure that a "lack of ethics" is the correct phrase, its just that big antlers make people do stupid shit

And not to be a post whore here but I would like to see a "Long Range Shooting" forum here. I would like to understand more about it.

Andy,
you can guarantee if such a forum is created/added, I'll be lurking, and for one, would like to see such a forum. I'm sure much could be learned. I don't have a particular problem with long range hunting. I just don't do it. To me long range game hunting is kinda like bow hunting. Too many chances for something to go wrong and lose game. I do it, but with trepidation. I'm not a bunny hugger either. I believe in the dominion covenant and that animals were intended to be our meat. I just hate to see the meat wasted when you miss or wound and not recover the animal. I don't go into "ethics" when killin'. Others do, that's up to them. Hell you probably got folks that will read this post that think nothing of aborting pre-born humans or stow away their parents in a nursing home and forget them, but raise "billy cain" if you shot a deer at 600 yds., wounded him and didn't make an effort to recover him.
I just tend to do my flaming in the "crater" where "assholes congregate" (and I'm included in that description) rather than in the hunting/shooting forums, and as you can see from the previous posts in this thread, it won't take much for posts to get off track.
GWB

Well now, aren't you the fiesty one
partner, i've killed 63 personal elk and
rolled the guts out of 250+ more in a 35 yrs
career of letting the air out of tan sides.
In Wy,UT,N.M.,Co,Mt
and i'll put my capabilitys, ethics, compitance and hunting integerty up againest ANYONE
maybe 1 1/2 doz of mine were killed past 500 yds and and less than a 1/2 doz didn't come out via horse from the back country "I" hunt in.
Your 12 elk record is pretty impressive thou,
You elk hunting guru you.
this thread isn't about our elk hunting records thou, or ones opinions of the hunintg ethics of the ability/technics of long range hunting.
And i am still interested in the information that could be offered in a "said" forem.
I'm not dead yet, so i'm still learning.
So if the rest of you aren't interested in
a long range hunting forem? OK by me
if you're here for a pissin match, lets dance!
especially when the post is more loud
mouthed opinion than experience!

Well long range hunting means different things to different people. I shoot long range for varmints and coyotes and actively look for opportunities to shoot at ranges out to 1,000 yards.

My personal limit for medium game animals like deer and antelope is 500 yards. To me that is medium range but others would consider that long range.

see what I mean!

This in response to wasbeeman's post!

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
Well now, aren't you the fiesty one
partner, i've killed 63 personal elk and
rolled the guts out of 250+ more in a 35 yrs
career of letting the air out of tan sides.
In Wy,UT,N.M.,Co,Mt
and i'll put my capabilitys, ethics, compitance and hunting integerty up againest ANYONE
maybe 1 1/2 doz of mine were killed past 500 yds and and less than a 1/2 doz didn't come out via horse from the back country "I" hunt in.
Your 12 elk record is pretty impressive thou,
You elk hunting guru you.
this thread isn't about our elk hunting records thou, or ones opinions of the hunintg ethics of the ability/technics of long range hunting.
And i am still interested in the information that could be offered in a "said" forem.
I'm not dead yet, so i'm still learning.
So if the rest of you aren't interested in
a long range hunting forem? OK by me
if you're here for a pissin match, lets dance!
especially when the post is more loud
mouthed opinion than experience!

well, let the games begin!









GWB

I think this has the makings of a really fine forum addition. We are in prelim stage of asking for one, and we already have a tremendous diversity of opinions.

It is interesting to note that the ones with little to no experience are the contrary ones.

Don't you just love that "If I can't do it, neither should you..." attitude?

"Johnny get your fiddle out and rosin up your bow; 'cause Hell's broke loose in Georgia, and the Devil deals the cards..."


Rich

Yes, I would like to see the addition of a Long Range Forum. Some of the country I hunt in southern Colorado is extremely flat an featureless. Antelope will see you form 2200 to 2500 yards, and start moving away. In this area, 400 yards is "really close". Some of these area's really do take a different set up skills and equipement to bring success. When you have become profecint with these skils, there are additional benefits to longrange hunting. IMO one of the biggest is your ability stay out of much of the prime habitat. By keeping your distance, you are not getting your scent all over the place, and changing the movement patterns of the critters you've so carefully scouted. Since you are less likely to get winded at 700 yards, then you are at 150 yards, again you are less likely to disturb them before you shoot. So you don't get the shot, well at least you haven't spooked 'em out of the country.

So for those of us how know the difference between Mil vs MOA, and the benefits of M1 turrets, Mil-dot and TMR reticles, a long range forum would be appreciated.

Rich,

I have little to no experience and I am the one pushing for the option! I value the skills of being able to sneak up on a critter and whack it with a ball/cross-peened hammer. Some places it just ain't gonna happen.

To the guy with a 30-30 150yds is long range!

To a 45-120 equiped buffalo hunter with only flip up iron sights long range could be a mile!

Sasquatch

And remember folks go up to the admin forum and express your vote. I didnt create a poll where votes could actually be registered. However I imagine Saeed is following the posts pertaining to this subject

I would like to see a long range forum. It could include both big game as well as varmits.

I also agree getting closer is always better if possible. But sometimes terrain or physical ability does not allow it.

BigB

quote:

Your concern has been noted. Please stay out of the forum if created.

You can bet your goat smelling ass I will.

My opinion stands, there is about as much need for a long range forum, as there is for a Texas Only forum.....ZERO!

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
ravenr, re-read your silly-assed post and then plant that bullshit flag in your front yard. Set it in concrete while you're at it. You know, permenent like.
I made 15 DIY elk hunts to WY and killed 12 elk. NONE were further than 300 yards and damn few were further than 200 yards. And that is consistant with what other COMPETENT HUNTERS said that I've talked to.
I can understand how not having the truck hood to shoot acrost and getting out of sight of the road might cause security issues with you but, with work, that can be overcome.

There's a lot of guys out there that are full of shit, ravenr ain't one of em. He's the real deal, if he couldn't get closer then I doubt it could be done.

I actually chuckle when I read your post because I'd put money on raven having seen more elk die in one season than you've seen in all of your DIY hunts combined.

Calling him out on his ability or credentials as a hunter is kinda like inviting John Holmes to a "whose dick is bigger" contest. When it's all flopped out on the table he's gotcha. It's really not even close.

I grew up in Eastern NM where 300 yrds was close-now I hunt differntly but that doesnt take away from the knowledge and skill learned to shoot further.

I hope the new forum is established as I believe that all knowledge can teach us something-one way or another.

Lets quit telling each other what we can think!

Yes there are ethical questions about LR hunting but they are just that-questions. not facts.

SSR

quote:

Calling him out on his ability or credentials as a hunter is kinda like inviting John Holmes to a "whose dick is bigger" contest. When it's all flopped out on the table he's gotcha. It's really not even close.

Drummond,

Prolly' a lot of youngster here that haven't a clue as to who John Holmes was.
GWB

I might as well jump in here too. For those who can CONSISTENTLY make LR shots AND recover the game, have at it. Vast majority cannot do it due to lack of skill. And will never develop the skill.

My concern about it, if promoted, is that it encourages the wrong people to think they can do it. And, ethics IS a factor!

As far as not being able to get close enough for a reasonable shot, say 400-500 yds just for discussions sake, why not pass up a shot amd look for another opportunity. Even if you go home empty handed its not the end of the world. Its why its called "hunting" and not "killing".

Sometimes egos overtake hunting ethics. For example, I have known duck hunters who go home PO'd if they did not limit. Same thing with some who do not get their bull , or buck, or ?

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Your concern has been noted. Please stay out of the forum if created.

No, it doesn't work that way here. Anyone can post in any Board they want to.

I've taken some l-o-n-g shots myself and if an Adequate Cartridge is used, when the wind is calm they can be made. And I've taken a lot of close-up shots. The amount of distance where a person should decide not to shoot is an easy one - only shoot as far as you have practiced, in the wind.

If you are only practicing at 100yds, then that should really be your limit.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Hotcore,

It should be quite obvious that I have no authority to tell or instruct anyone where he she or it can post.

These are open forums.

However, would you openly invite someone to your party knowing they were going to piss on your leg and try to convince you it is raining?


Sasquatch

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:

quote:

Calling him out on his ability or credentials as a hunter is kinda like inviting John Holmes to a "whose dick is bigger" contest. When it's all flopped out on the table he's gotcha. It's really not even close.

Drummond,

Prolly' a lot of youngster here that haven't a clue as to who John Holmes was.
GWB

I have no idea who he is, but I laughed my ass off at the joke.

StormGPS sez....

quote:

I have no idea who he is, but I laughed my ass off at the joke.

"Big" John Holmes was a pornstar in the days of yore (60's through late 70's) Google John Holmes and see what you get.

GWB

Oh, and another thing; year before last I watched a guy shoot a bull elk at 600 yds, across and down in the bottom of a canyon. But, on 3rd shot; missed cleanly on 1st two. Could just as easily have wounded it. Seems to me he was TRYING to hit it. Kind of like desperation shots. At that distance how can you be sure of, not just a hit, but a killing shot.

He is one of a group that regularly shoot long range at elk. They bring home elk. How many crippled? Don't know, if any. Would they tell?

They are set up with .300 RUMs, 15-20X rifle scopes and 60X spotting scopes- and use 4whlrs to get around. They are not old guys. Their intent, from the get go is to shoot long range. Just me maybe, but that's not hunting.

I archery hunt and long range is 60 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
StormGPS sez....

quote:

I have no idea who he is, but I laughed my ass off at the joke.

"Big" John Holmes was a pornstar in the days of yore (60's through late 70's) Google John Holmes and see what you get.

GWB

Your a good man for telling me and not having me just google it. I'll take you word for it.

Take it from an ol' guy,
He was "big" back then!

Would I lie?

GWB

Geedubya,

Did ya ever see when John Holmes meets Christy Canyon? They didn't call her Canyon for nothing!


I digress.