I checked through the archives and could not find this specifically addressed. I want to get a gun safe but I am not sure if this is wise with a wood floor on a pier and beam foundation. Has anyone with this? Must the floor be reinforced in some way? Due to humidity and theft concerns the garage does not seem like a smart alternative.

I don't know what a:

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wood floor on a pier and beam foundation.

is but my safe is on a wood floor over the basement. In the dense area of the safe, figure 2000 pounds loaded. I added four load bearing columns under the safe one in each corner. It's been like that for almost twenty years.

Check and see what your bathtub has for support - with water and a person, am sure you are talking potential 500-600 lbs. Those 10-20 fire proof gun safes from Bass Pro/Cabelas shouldn't be much over 600 lbs empty. If your entire floor is support is the same and the safe/tub "full weights" are comparable, should be all right.

For what it's worth, my safe sits in my garage, bolted to the floor. Humidity is solved for with silica gel or they make those rods as well.

Brad

Jelmore4

My gun safe weighs 1300 pounds empty. It on a wooden floor. I placed it in a corner of a room so that the foundation supports two sides of the safe. It has never been a problem. Until now I have to move it.

I am pretty sure the industry max of lbs/sq ft. is 150. MSHitman over on the Handgun Hunting page would know for sure. He helped put my 1100 lb. safe on a SECOND floor apartment. Pretty sure he used a loaded weight of 500 lbs to come up with something like 125 lbs. sq/ft in my case. Depending on the footprint of the safe, you will not have a problem.

Catmsndu

Think about it this way.
Your normal icebox/freezer has 4 small feet that contact the floor, thus the whole weight is on 4 small feet. Most safes have a much larger foot print. Unless your floor is extra weak, and your safe extra heavy, I would not worry about it.
If you have to tke a safe upstairs you mihgt consider 2 smaller safes instead of one big one. This is a good idea for apartment dwellers, renters, and anyone who moves every few years.

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Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Think about it this way.
Your normal icebox/freezer has 4 small feet that contact the floor, thus the whole weight is on 4 small feet. Most safes have a much larger foot print

Yes the safe does have a much larger foot print when resting on the floor, but not when transported into the house on a "dolly". Then all of the weight is on two small wheels.

I'm with foxfire and Jay Johnson on this one. My biggest safe is in my office above the garage, and it weighs every bit of 1500 lbs.

I did get a couple of adjustable floor support posts from Home Depot and a 4x4 to span a few of the floor joists to reinforce the floor.

I was more concerened with getting that pig up some steps on the front porch, and rolling it through the house. Any soft spots in the plywood between floor joist would be found pretty quickly, so I cut some plywood strips wide enough for my hand trucks, laid 'em on the carpet, and rolled on.

I have always used a quality dolly and aluminium conduit to moove safes around indoors. Kinda like building the Pyrimids.

You could reinforce the floor with a screw jack lolly colum underneath. It would be real easy and would cost you about $60.00. Also get 2 pieces of 1/2 inch plywood the size of the safes footprint, nail or screw them down on the floor under where the safe will go. This is a cheap and easy way to stiffen up a wood floor over rafters. If you plan on never moving the safe glue the layers also.

I'd consult a master carpenter if I had any questions about the ability of the floor to hold the safe. But when it comes to easing the haulage and drayage have a look at the Zanotti modular safe. You and a buddy can bring the pieces in with a two wheeled dolly. You can assemble it inside closets or rooms with doors too narrow to remove it. Best of all if you take delivery at the freight forwarders no one but your trusted circle need know you own a large gun safe. I know I sound like a shill for Zanotti which is ironic because I don't own one, but I have helped deliver and assemble them.

Thanks for the input. This has been very helpful.

It may be a pretty and convenient place to put the safe in your house.

But the best fire protective safe in the world is not going to adequately protect your guns if it ends up falling 10ft to the level below. The safe will probably easily survive the fall but what is inside may not be so lucky.

Something to think about. I would put it as close to real ground level as possible.

I would be concerned with warpage of the floor joists over time. A fridge is what, 2-400 lbs and much wider than a safe. A small fire safe starts at what, 600 lbs, and goes up fast. Over time the static load may cause the beams to sag a bit. It is always best to reinforce...it's cheap insurance!

FWIW, I have a boat in a wood frame deck/lift behind my house, and the engineer who made the plans (whom I consider quite competant) put in double 2x12 beams for load bearing. On a 4 point lifting arrangement, each point carries a load of about 600 lbs. No sagging for sure, but keep in mind that the average floor beam is what, a 2x6 on 16" centers? If it were my house, I would either put in an additional pier below the safe or brace the heck out of the floor, all the way out to the nearest piers.

Ok, I'll throw in a bit of experience here. I am a structural designer, not an engineer but close enough. It will depend on the size & span of your floor joists. The closer to the middle of the span, the greater the deflection (or sag) of the joist. An avg. gun safe weighs say 700# loaded/sq.ft. of the safe. Your floor is designed for something much less than 120#/sq.ft. So if the safe is in the middle of the floor joist I would reinforce.
You could go under & add post & beams
You could double or triple up the joist by nailing another to the existing. Your floor won't go crashing in but you could end up w/ a long term deflection problem.

If I had a house with rooms that weren't safe for ten men to stand in I'd tear it down.

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The closer to the middle of the span, the greater the deflection (or sag) of the joist. An avg. gun safe weighs say 700# loaded/sq.ft. of the safe. Your floor is designed for something much less than 120#/sq.ft.

A good gun safe will probably weigh 1000 lbs loaded and be close to 2' by 2' (4' square). That would compute to 250 lbs/sq.ft. Most floors can handle that pretty well. Still, if you live in earthquake country it would a good idea to butress the floors. Luckily you have a piered foundation, it is fairly easy to reinforce. Run two 2x6's joist to joist under the safe and you will increase the load handeling capabilities of the floor. If in doubt, you can measure the floor deflection after you put the safe on and make sure it doesn't dip more than 1/4".

John

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Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have always used a quality dolly and aluminium conduit to moove safes around indoors. Kinda like building the Pyrimids.

You're absolutely right about the conduit or pipe! I had forgotten all about that, but it made a huge difference in the ease of turning corners or working it into tight areas.

bigbore, no one builds a spec. house for 250#/sq. combined dead & live load. Your typ. house floor will support the 250#/sq. but it will deflect more w/ time.

Hello the campfire:
I weigh in the range of 250 lbs naked which trandlates to 250 or slightly more if I stand with my feet together. (figuring my feet together are about one foot square or a little less. My wood floors do not deflect from my weight, nor do they with my son who is 6'4'' and 275. I have a pier and beam foundation. I have two heavy gun safes side by side with no problem. I think thay you will be OK. Just my humble opinion.
Judge Sharpe

The sagging problem occurs over time. Judge, get your son and yourself to stand as closely together as possible and have someone else put a long (4'+) straightedge across the floor by your feet. 1/4" is hard to see, but I bet with a straightedge to refer to, you will see it. Move your big safes and I bet a straightedge will show some warpage too...if not your builder did a heck of a job framing/constructing your house!

Besides, we are talking about a 250lb/sq ft load over several square feet for years at a time. It's not the same as 10 guys dispersed throughout a room or one guy in one spot for a few minutes. It sounds like I am nitpicking, but the difference is critical! Have you ever moved your bed/fridge/dresser and seen the divots under its feet? They didn't get there over one night...