The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Muzzle up or down?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| <Don G> |
I agree with muzzle down in that situation. I like a deeply recessed crown because of this. Don | ||
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Moderator |
We always do muzzle up, but then we know each other. With strangers I wouldn't mind up or down, but I do like to see actions open. We'll even open the actions up on our guns and act like we do it all of the time. Everyone out there probably has an "unloaded gun" story, and I do not want to have any more. | |||
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| <Lv2hnt> |
Everyone I've ever hunted with has always put muzzle to the floor (NO exceptions!!!). Guys that don't want to put their rifle's muzzle directly on the floor normally insert it into a glove. Lv2hnt | ||
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| Administrator |
BigD, Welcome to the forum. It really makes no difference as long as the rifle is not loaded and ready to fire. I have hunted with some people who prefer to have the muzzle up, and others who prefer to have the muzzle down. I've heard stories of both rifles and shotguns going off in a vehicle, which cannot be recommended. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
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one of us |
I've been in a lot of vehicles with long arms. It's always been muzzle up. But, then again, I've always been with people who take a severe pride in their gun safety abilities. With someone I didn't know.....well, it'd just depend on where the gas lines in my car ran I guess ------------------ - Edward Abbey | |||
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| <500 AHR> |
With me it has always been action open, unloaded, and muzzle up. If an accidental discharge would happen I would rather have a hole in the roof than one in the engine, transmission, someones foot, etc. Todd E | ||
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| <ssleefl> |
Mt sentiments exactly Todd | ||
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| one of us |
Muzzle up, what others do is up to them. | |||
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| one of us |
Muzzle down is the safest, I'd rather shoot a toe off than a head, it the event that someone was unknowingly loaded and you hit a big bump or had a wreck and the gun went bang. I don't want any muzzle in a position that it could be pointed at my face it things went south, and up is in that position any way you cut it......... ------------------ | |||
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| <500 AHR> |
Ray, I just do as I was taught my Uncle Sam. Besides statistics show that muzzle down is less safe than muzzle up. Todd E | ||
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| <JoeM> |
Hello I don't like either muzzle up or muzzle down. For me, it is the gun case, unloaded, bolt removed and the whole mess stashed in the back, in the toolbox. ------------------ | ||
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| <BigD> |
Thanks guys, that's what I wanted was a bunch of opinions.I see no problem with a muzzle up and action open. In our own vehicles we have cases and use them but like I said this was different. Thanks | ||
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one of us |
I'm in there w/ Todd, it depends on what you are riding in. If you are in a helo, muzzle down so you don't put a round thru the flying parts. If you were in my truck, I would want it muzzle up. I'ld rather have a hole in my roof than in my transmission? Of course this always assumes the firearm is UNLOADED. Just something to think about. [This message has been edited by fredj338 (edited 07-29-2001).] | |||
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| one of us |
Todd, Whos stats are you quoting?? I will suggest that in the modern world of muzzle brakes if one every goes off pointed up in your truck, you will continue like with a pocked marked face and whistling who'd a thought it! but you won't hear the whistle. ------------------ | |||
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| <TomA> |
When riding in web seating I used to cinch down the chin strap on my K-pot and with arms thru the sling and the butt in between my feet would sleep with my forehead on the muzzle of my M-16. I still sleep with a loaded pistol under my pillow and/or loaded riot gun under the edge of the covers. When riding in vehicles I always unload and open the action then decock on an empty chamber. If you don't know how to do this on a bolt action rifle it is simple: with the trigger pulled, lock the bolt into place(on an empty chamber only)! The firing pin has no pressure on it that way. Muzzle down means the round has the potential to richochet back up and take off a few testicles! My rifle is so long its muzzle is almost to the ceiling anyway, but I'm an old grunt, I walk anyway so I don't really care. In my truck it is in it's case and I only load one round right when I get ready to make my shot. | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
Muzzle up, weapon unloaded, action open. Hard to shoot a hole in ANYTHING that way. | ||
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one of us |
I had someone (who shall remain nameless) do me the privilege of discharging his 300 Weatherby into the floor of my F150 once. The 180 grain Nosler Partition showed superior penetration abilities on the frame rail. If that muzzle had been pointing up, two things would have happened: 1) I would have been deaf in my right ear, possibly my left. The first rule of firearms is to never point it at something you are not willing to destroy. Bolts in, out, loaded or not. Makes no difference. So, if not in the rack, muzzle down. Dutch. | |||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: Dutch- So does that mean you are willing to destroy your frame rail? (Just kidding you). | ||
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| one of us |
Geez, Gary, it was ONLY a Ford........  . Dutch. | |||
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One of Us |
I have two friends that have been in vehicles when "unloaded" rifles discharged. #1 Rifle muzzle up in front seat of car. A Savage 99 in .308. Luckily my friend in the rear seat was turned to look at a small elk when the rifle ,directly in front of him fired. The result was a bullet just above his collar bone. Several years later he still has fragments working their way out. If he had not been turned to the side the bullet would have entered his head. #2 Rifle muzzle down. A friend had his son hunting and told his boy to get in quick. The boy did ,but in his haste to do as told at that minute did not unload. The result was a shock absorber neatly removed by a .270 . Of course both were the result of a loaded gun in a vehicle but it is pretty easy to choose which one was the least damaging. | |||
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| <BigD> |
O.K. I am not trying to be a smart a$$,really .I know that every gun should be treated as if it was loaded but as an example when I am cleaning a gun I will always look down the muzzle with a flashlight and check for copper. I know this is safe because the bolt is out or the lever is down etc. Am I doing something wrong? If I am out in the field and stop to offer someone a ride I would have no problem with them unloading and then removing the bolt or opening the action and hopping in next to me with the muzzle pointed up. I do thank all of you for your opinions. | ||
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| <DuaneinND> |
Unloaded, bolt open, and muzzle up. If I am riding with someone else who is uncomfortable, unloaded, bolt open, and I will rest the muzzle on the toe of my boot to keep it off the floor. | ||
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| <Burgerman> |
Wow, seems like everybody has strong feelings one way or the other. But lets be realistic, does it really matter? A weapon should be handled in a safe manner until you are ready to kill something, or scare it bad anyway. Imagine your walking along and have to pee. Are you going to lean your rifle up against a tree, muzzle down? Maybe you would lay it down on it's side, in the mud or snow? I bet not. I don't stick the muzzle of my weapons into anything, least of all my foot, or the floor boards of some hillbilly rig. When I get in a vehicle with a weapon, I instinctively open the action and check. I'll often ask that someone else watch me check. Safety first, but lets not be ridiculous. A loaded gun can kill somebody pointed in any direction. A gun "unable to fire" is safe. | ||
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| <Jordan> |
Muzzle down without question. About 12 years ago I was riding in my four door Buick seedan with my brother on our way down to the river bottoms/hay fields to cap some field lions one evening. Brother was holding his Browning "sweet 16" auto-five with muzzle near his head. It was a new purchase (but gun was used) and he had barely fired the gun. We saw a field lion cross the road and brother wanted to shoot it. I said no 'cause we were too close to town. He jumped out anyway and put a few rounds after it to no avail. Getting back into the car, he had a round in the chamber and the safety on. The muzzle was near his head. BOOM!!! I hear this loud discharge and see smoke curling up around bro's head and a hole just above him in the roof of my car. He came inches from taking the side of his face off. There was literally no color left in his face he was so shocked. Of course, his left ear rings to this day. The real moral of the story is a violation of the rule against having a loaded gun in a vehicle and the rule against ever trusting a gun safety (they do not work). But these things do happen (especially among idiots). Better to take a round in the foot that in the face. Regards,
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| one of us |
The only question is: head or toes. Only a dumb, stubborn, stupid, moronic, democrat, nonthinking, pigheaded, foolhardy, imbecile would choose a headshot over a toe burner. Think about it, and forget what your daddy said, or his daddy. Keep your rifle on your toes, and your head on your neck. dont be a fool. gun pointed down in a truck has the momentum not against the trigger, and not against the head bone. dont be stupido. duh. the big red truck. Only a true moron would think otherwise. of course, this is only the opinion of a hunter safet instructor. jameister. | |||
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| one of us |
quote: Some safety instructor. Where'd ya learn that one, Beruit? Definitely not from the NRA Instructor Course: the weapon should always be UNLOADED in the vehicle. And if it's unloaded, why damage the muzzle, or get it plugged with crap by pointing it down? In addition, the shoulder weapon comes out of the vehicle faster in a muzzle-up position. It doesn't get loaded until you are on target ready to shoot or hunt. I've been with hunters/guides in some parts of the country that like to ride "locked and loaded", and they like the muzzle pointed down, saying it's safer that way. No thanks, they unload their weapon or I don't get in their vehicle and they don't get PAID. Isn't this hunting, or are we fighting a war? The only time a weapon should be loaded in a vehicle is when you are prepared to shoot at a deadly threat. The poster that mentioned the possibilty of an accidental discharge in a vehicle is right ! Loaded on-safe weapons can fire accidently with a hard jolt, depending on whether there is direct sear intervention or not with the safety engagement. The Remington 870, an example of a trigger-blocking-only safety, will fire when dropped from a height of four feet about half the time, with the safety ENGAGED. Think about that the next time you are bouncing around in your pickup, boat or ATV. | |||
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| <IronMan> |
I would have the muzzel up...why? I�m not sure. I have never hunted anywhere but in Sweden and in Sweden we are not allowed to hunt from cars and we can�t spot animals from the car and then start stalkning them so I have no experiance in this topic. Whenever I�m in a car it�s before or after I have hunted and the rifle is a case in the back of the car. If I would sitt in a car with my rifle I would have the muzzel up (unless the other people in the car asked me to have it down). | ||
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| one of us |
I think everyone realizes that unloading a gun is proper, but the fact is sometimes it just doesn't work out that way, human error or ignorance steps in and takes over...In which case, in our camps, both here and in Africa, you will point the gun down..thats camp rules, no exceptions. ------------------ | |||
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| <David J. Moses> |
The only time a German would point the muzzle down is to keep water out of the barrel in a downpour. Even then, a piece of masking tape at the muzzle allows the proper muzzle up carry for all circumstances. In the vehicle, no question: Muzzle up, unloaded, always. All commercial gunracks for hunting 4x4s have the muzzle up position. Why muzzle up? Because with muzzle down in (say) a slung position the muzzle will sweep anything higher than about 15": Your feet, someone elses, the transmission, a shock absorber. With muzzle up and the muzzle at head level, there is hardly anything that the muzzle will sweep. In 27 years of hunting, I have never seen any situation where anyone rode in a car with the muzzle down and that this practice is widespread, well, I just read it here. Maybe I was hanging out with the wrong crowd? | ||
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| one of us |
I am astonished. No votes whatever for the very popular muzzle out the window alternative (cartridge in the chamber, finger on the trigger, and car door used as a convenient bench rest)....
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one of us |
One of my brother-in-laws told me a story from when he was a "missle maintenance mechanic" at Grand Forks Airforce Base in...you guessed it, Grand Forks North Dakota. Whenever they had to go out and pull the warhead from a MinuteMan for testing they would have a whole circus of troops on the road. A jeep with an officer and MP, two 6x6's, one in front and one behind the special tractor-trailer rig. Lastly a pair of Huey's grooving around at 500 feet. Everyone was armed, even the drivers. These guys in the 6x6's were all Air Force MP's rigged out with M16's and live ammo in case someone was stupid enough to try to take them on. Sadly on one of these excursions, they had been on the road for a couple of hours and the MP in the jeep had fallen asleep. He had the butt on the floor. Going through one of the 10 family towns in N.D. the jeep hit another car. The muzzle of the M16 went up under the breastbone of the MP killing him instantly. I cannot comment on whether I carry my rifles up or down as my travel is by boat or snomachine. I always have it in the guncase. This story is not made up, after reading some of these posts I would opt for muzzle down if no case were available. | |||
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| one of us |
I read this thread with great interest because,here in New York,it is illegal to hunt from a vehical,so only the dumbest of "hunters"carry a loaded rifle in one. It is unusual to even carry an unloaded rifle in the vehical;it is usually in a case. When I accepted a ride from a friendly Hunter,who brought my deer out for me,I unloaded my rifle in front of him,closed the bolt,and put it in the back,with his rifles. The only time that I can remember carrying a rifle in a car,was when,my partner killed a buck on a section of land away from the area that we were hunting.(This is a limited access area,where you are assigned parking places for assigned areas to hunt).It was a short jaunt to the next area,so I carried my rifle in the car.For what it is worth,I carried it empty,open and with the muzzle up.It jut seemed easier,without worrying about damaging the muzzle. ------------------ | |||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: jameister- Well, I'll take this one personally. If you look a few posts above yours, you'll see that I must be one of those flaming a$$holes that just doesn't know any better. Stupid me... It must be a miracle that I managed to survive all these years... BTW, I think the KuduKing gave you the thoughts I was thinking as well. | ||
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| <TomA> |
My Dad heard me laughing at the Road Hunter position so he put his two cents in about "Jim" the same hunter that lost a fine Weatherby to his new gunrack that got up and ran off with his rifle in his rack! Well, Jim was riding shotgun and there was only two places in the rack so he had to hold his rifle and he put the muzzle of his Winchester Lever Action down to the floor so not to blow someones head off by accident. Suddenly a buck ran accross the road and Jim jumped out and levered a round into the chamber and fired. Well the rifle blew up in his face! He hadn't paid attention to the floorboard being full of mud from all of the muddy boots getting in and out and had plugged his barrel. My Dad says old Jim isn't stupid, he just like a lot of us gets excited and stops paying attention to safety. My friend used to have a 30-30 hole in the cab right behind the passengers head where someone forgot to unload a rifle and put it into the rack and a hard bump fired the near fatal shot! The Army and my Dad have always taught me "muzzles up" and maybe they have a point. There is NO replacement for safety and that includes bad habits, so think before you act and pay attention to what's going on at all times. | ||
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Maybe the tranny?