The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting how many have downed a grizzly with a 94 in 3030?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Hi I wonder if there are some hunters who have killed a grizz with a 3030 and cantel about rheir experience? it is said that USA become nearly empty of grizzlis du to this caliber!! regards Danny | ||
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| One of Us |
That was a long time ago when people had less money, less choices in rifles, and less sense. There are a few native Americans who will pull out a 30-30 or 222 to exercise their indigenous persons hunting rights. If one animal gets away, no problem, they can shoot another. But with the cost of a decent grizz hunt today ($13,000), most guys have enough sense to use .338 and up. One year at SCI I talked to several of the grizz guides, and some of them had a policy of imposing .338 as the minimum grizz caliber. The deal was that either the hunter had to arrive carrying a .338 or bigger, or else they went straight from the airport to Wal Mart so that the hunter could buy a .338. | |||
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| One of Us |
My Grandmother did. She found a dead cow that had been killed by a Grizzly and the Bear charged her from the side. She had a .32 Special in a scabbard on her pony and they took off through the timber with the Bear hot on their heels. She pulled the rifle and shot 5 times off of the back of horse, ala John Wayne, and tumbled the bear with one of them. She then pulled up about 100 yards ahead of the Bear and reloaded from her jacket pocket. She rode back and the Bear got to it's feet and started coming again and she shot it six more times off of the back of the horse, finally killing it. The skinned hide filled up a whole wall in the front room of the Ranch House and I used to play on it when I was a tyke. I don't know how big it actually was but years latter my cousin measured the skull at a little over 27 inches. For you doubters it was a Coastal Bear from the far West Chilcotin. This all happened in the forties before I was around to verify it. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
An older guy that I work with watched, as a young boy, the government trapper shoot two grizz with a 30-30 that had been killing cows. This was in the late 50's. I think one of the top 10 in the book was killed with a .22 out of self defense. | |||
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| one of us |
I memory serves me correctly, I believe the largest Grizzly ever killed in Alberta met it's fate to a native woman near Slave Lake back in the '50s. She used a single shot .22, when it stuck it's head in her tent. The biggest one I've ever seen shot was done in with a .22 WMR, at a range of about 2 yards, in roughly the same circumstances...a neighbor heard his little dog yapping, so he grabbed the gun and opened the door...the dog went between his legs into the cabin, and the bear meant to as well! I don't know what it weighed, but it was all five of us could do to skid it up a couple of planks into the back of a pickup.In those days, in northern Alberta, bears of all kinds were such a fact of life that nobody really took them seriously. If you saw them, you shot them, period. Strangely, there still seems to be more than enough to go around. | |||
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| one of us |
A native woman here in Alberta (between house Mountain and Grizzly Mountain, south of Kinuso) killed what was then the world record mountain grizzly (early sixties) with a Cooey .22, one shot. Shot it through the eye, from the seat of their tractor. I don't know anyone personally who has killed a grizzly with a .30-30, but if you're willing to get close enough and are a good enough shot, it's certainly doable. If they can be taken with handguns (and they have) then a .30-30 would do the job. Wouldn't be my choice though. - Dan | |||
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| one of us |
The alberta story seems to have a lot of variations.The version that appears in the boone&crocket record book lists the woman as a native named bella twin.It happened near slave lake as two women were picking berries.The grizzly apparenty appeared at a distance of several feet and the woman shot it in the head with a single shot .22.She then emptied the rest of her cartridges into the bears head to make sure it was dead. | |||
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| one of us |
I read a book about bears a few years ago (don't remember the title), and the author who had some sort of .303 rifle that jammed, was saved by a Native guy with a .30-30. The guy shot the charging grizzly several times on the head, and one of the bullets penetrated through one of the bear's eyes killing it instantly. The bear dropped a few feet in front of them. There was a guy from Anchorage, Alaska, who fought a bear with his knife. According to the story that appeared in the newspaper back then, they believe that one of the bear's vertebras on the neck may have been partially severed at the joint. The guy had stabbed the bear several times on the neck, but by then his arms where badly slashed and bitten. In the final moments he had dropped his knife, so he fought the bear with his fists by hitting it on the face and nose. The bear tried to jump him one more time, and the guy hit it on the side of the nose with such a force that several bones on his hand and wrist broke, and the bear dropped flat on its stomach. The only explanation about this bear's death was, that perhaps the punch on side of the nose may have caused the neck to finally break after being injured with the knife. I know the story is hard to believe, but there were witnesses, pictures, etc. Late last year, there were a couple of moose in a guy's backyard, and he tried to scare them by shooting them with his BB gun. One of the pellets hit the young moose, penetrating between two ribs over the lungs and killing it. The moose was perhaps a year or two old. Needless to say, that incident landed the shooter in court. [ 06-01-2003, 22:02: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ] | |||
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| one of us |
There was an article in Outdoor Life sometime in the 60's, if memory serves about a man who had the job of bringing feed in to a Trumper Swan breeding area in Canada. As the story goes, he was crossing a brush choked gully on a large log when he encountered a large grizzly bear crossing from the other side. Being left with two choices, jumping into the gully which was deep enough to cause serious bodily injury, or take on the bear with a Winchester 94 carbine in 30-30. naturally, he chose the latter. After delivering the feed to the swans, he went back to get the bear's skull. After drying, it tied the world's record B&C bear, but was disallowed due to the bullet hole in the skull. According to the article, IIRC, he only shot once. As far as a guide making me go to Walmart to buy a .338 mag. when I prefer to use an 06 that I shoot very well, well he can that a flying "F" at a splintery knot hole. Frankly, if I ever was to get the chance to hunt "griz", I'd probably opt for my .35 Whele, and if the giude didn't like it, he's fired and sued. Paul B. | |||
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| <257 AI> |
If I remember right the last Grizzly in Colorado was killed by a bow hunter who stabbed the bear with an arrow while it was trying to make him lunch. | ||
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| one of us |
Your remarks about the guide, Paul, are well said. The guides job is to put you in the best position to accomplish what you want to do and to cover your ass when it doesn't work. If he can't do that, he shouldn't take the hunt........and your fat deposit. I assume these fellows don't book archery hunts. [ 06-02-2003, 02:08: Message edited by: beemanbeme ] | |||
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| One of Us |
quote:If you are actually foolish enough to depend on someone else to save your ass from any DG encounter than you are indeed a fool. quote:Not too many outfitters in, BC at least, will book Archery Hunts for Grizzlies. Baiting is not allowed so it is spot and stock or sitting up over a Salmon Stream. Those that do, insist that follow up be done with a rifle and if the Bear is found dead congratulations and if not, you shoot it or the guide will. No screwing around with a wounded Grizzly. As far a the .338 thing, I think that someone is being a little over dramatic. At our places '06's and up are okay but guides are all armed with open sighted 45-70's, .375's or similiar large bullet calibers. Muzzle Energy plays second fiddle to a BIG BULLET. I like my .404 with open sights and do not like scopes for backup rifles as the weather is often pretty crappy and no one wants to deal with a blurry scope up close. A good scoped 300 WM or up is a good rifle as you can shoot a wounded Bear at a distance if the opportunity is there and lesson the drama of a close encounter of the personnal time. Pretty much any gun worth his salt is going to kill a charging Grizzly if he is prepared and ready for it. [ 06-02-2003, 02:35: Message edited by: Mickey1 ] | |||
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| one of us |
Mickey1. I don't think it is so much a case of "depending" on someone to save my ass, as it is a case of backup in case the vigaro should hit the mixmaster. I'm perfectly confident in being able to place my shot where it has to go, but sometimes, unbeknownst to the shooter, the scope can go south at the wrong time, the animal in question, bear in this case, makes a sudden move just as you squeeze off you shot, you know, just a case of Murphy's law. Not your fault, not anyones, it just happens. Having the guide as a back up at that time sure seems like a plan to me, but actually depend on his saving my ass? I sincerely hope that may never be the case. Still, it does beat hell out of "Brer Griz" gnawing on my leg or other important body parts. Paul B. | |||
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| One of Us |
quote:Paul I think that you misunderstood or I misstated my reply. Beemanbeme's statement is in italics. He seemed to be saying that it is the job of the guide to save your bacon. My point is that you need to depend on yourself and not on the guide to do that. Doing something foolish and then placing your faith in a stranger that you have just met to help you out when it goes awry is foolishness. Too many guides are only there because they needed work and know something about hunting. More than likely they are not as good a hunter as most of the serious clients. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Where does it say we can let the wounded get away as we please, and then go and shoot another? We do NOT have a law that gives us this allowance! Got that? Folks who do this are poachers and criminals regardless of where they come from. Hunters from SLC Utah be poachers too! My wife's brother hunts polar bears every year, taking several each time, with a 243 Win. He chooses to use a 243 simply because he can shoot it well. "Use what you can shoot well". Hmmm, where have I heard this advise before? Could this apply to some folks who use a 222? How about a 30-30? Some hunters can shoot so damn well, they don't need a large bore to compensate for their lack of marksmanship. ~~~Suluuq [ 06-03-2003, 18:11: Message edited by: Rusty Gunn ] | |||
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Moderator |
Suluuq, Actually I think the large bore has more to do with patience, or lack thereof rather then marsmenship. Ie the guided sports hunter does not want to wait for conditions to be just right for use of a smaller bore, so chooses a larger one. The native hunter on the other hand is, in my understanding, more likely to take the game as it is presented or not. If game does not present itself in a way to allow harvest, then that is the luck of the draw, and no reason to go buy a bigger or faster gun. Then again, there are also native hunters that shoot 300 whetherbies, and the occasional poacher/slob hunter as well. And to Ray's story of a moose being taken by a bb gun, it was a pump pellet gun, and the homeowner angered at moose eating his plants shot a calf several times, and one of the pellets penetrated the hide between the ribs and punctured the lung. | |||
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| one of us |
257AI, I think that you are correct as I remember reading about it in Outdoor Life mag. I just can't rmember when it happend I think it was either the late 70's or the earley 80's. | |||
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| one of us |
Stubble, Bella Twin is the one I'm thinking of. They farmed just south of Kinuso, which is on Lesser Slave Lake's south shore. Straight south from town is House Mountain and Grizzly Mountain. It used to be pretty wild country, starting to get all filled up now. - Dan | |||
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| one of us |
Clayton mack useed a 30/30 for 20 years or so as a British Columbia grizzley guide. Clayton switched to a 308 (I think it was a winchester 88) after a charging sow broke his ribs having taken five shots from his 30/30. Apparently the grizz hit the muzzel of Clayton's gun as it fell dead at his feet. After the switch to 308 Clayton reported that it worked just fine, and that he never had a problem stopping bears again. Used that gun for almost another 20 years. Clayton could shoot. Go figure. I talked to a family of guides that worked out of Bella Coola B.C. and asked what calibre they recomended for grizz. They said they used 308 winchesters (lever guns) and suggested a .338 if I could shoot it or better yet a 30-06 and 220 Noslers. They didn't recomend the 300 mags. I believe the family name was Blewlet. I packed a 416. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Jamie | |||
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| one of us |
Rusty, Damn, lucky guy. I didn't think Polar Bear could be hunted anymore. What does he do with all the hides? Red | |||
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| one of us |
I knocked over a grizzly bear with a 30/30. And it was huge! Had to be 10 feet tall. I was in this sporting good store,and wanted to take a look at a 30/30 they had behind the counter. So as I was looking at it, my brother in law came up from behind and said " Watcha lookin at?" So I turned around with the 30/30 and not paying attention, knock over this big grizzly bear standing there. The Dyke bitch in ski wear was really pissed off, because since she was the biggest meanest employee in the store she had to pick it up. She followed me and my brother in law out into the parking lot, since it was closing time and dark and proceeded to beat the shit out of both of us. So I really would not recommend knocking over a Grizzly Bear with anything, at least at that Sporting Good store, or one where a broad name Bertha works who has a tatoo on her forehead that says 'If You don't Ride a Harley, You Aint Shit' and one on her cleavage that says " Lesbians Only and For Always". Just my experience on the subject. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} ![[Embarrassed]](images/icons/blush.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| Moderator |
quote:Polar bears can only be hunted by indiginous peoples of Alaska in the US. This is part of the marine mamal protection act of the 70's. In Canada sportshunting is allowed, I'm not sure exactly what the details are, but I believe essentially the indiginous peoples sell their allotted bears and guide the sportshunter. | |||
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| one of us |
This would be a good place to expand the "Ted's Bear Story" about that airman from Anchorage. I believe he shot that 1,600 LB, 13' tall Brownie with a Winchester 94 saddle gun, while riding a unicycle on a fallen log across a 100' deep canyon. The bear had already eaten three park rangers and was just cleaning his teeth with a Big Bertha driver when Ted surprised him. | |||
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| one of us |
There was a thousand pound nine footer trapped near my place last week. I believe I would have wanted a peek at my hole card before opening the bids with a thuty-thuty. | |||
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| <heavy varmint> |
In Frank Barnes "Cartriges Of The World" 7th edition he writes about an African farmer who shoots an elephant with a 22 rimfire to run it out of his garden. As I remember the elephant dropped at the shot and then the farmer had one hell of a time getting it out of the garden. | ||
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| one of us |
How would a Ruger 44 Mag. carbine work as a brush or guide gun loaded with 300 gr., JHP/XTP in griz country? Also, there is a thread on another board about a guy who shot a 1,600 lb man-eating griz while deer hunting. the bear was brought down with several shots from a 7mm. Here is a link to the thread: http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127710 | |||
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| one of us |
HI GUYS i DON,T KNOW HOW A 44 MAG IS, BUT MY 3030 WITH FEDERAL 170 NOSLER PENETRATE MORE THAN 16 INCHES OF DRY!! PAPER @ 40 YDS!. MAYBE FOR DOWNING A GRIZZ 50 BMG IS NEEDED. OK I'LL BUY A BARRET FOR MY TRIP TO ALSKA. I HAVE A SAVAGE M 24 30-30 / 12 MAG. WHAT ABOUT 170 NOSLAER BACKED WITH A 3 INCH BRENNEKE SLUG(AT LEAST IT KICKS LIKE AN ELEPHANT SLAYER)IS IT ENOUGH FOR SELF DEFENCE AGAINST BEARS? REGARDS DANNY | |||
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| one of us |
At some point in range a 30-06 or a 300 Wby becomes a 30-30...and it seems to be OK to shoot Griz and Browns at 300 yards with them???? go figure! I would not hesitate to shoot a Griz or Brown at 50 to a 150 yards with my 30-30 if I had nothing else..I have a lot of respect for that caliber and have shot a lot of deer and elk and a couple of black bear with one....A famous PH shot Lion, Cape Buffalo, and even elephant with his Win. M-94 carbine in 32 Special as that was what he had when he stepped off the ship in Mozambique and he used it successfully until he could afford a larger gun.... | |||
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| one of us |
quote:As Paul mentioned, Alaskan Natives can still hunt polar bears, but not for sporting purposes. The whole bear is recovered and taken home, as required for subsistance hunting (its something that was done for thousands of years anyway). The fur is made into traditional clothing items (refered to as hand made crafts), which then can be sold/traded if desired. "Raw" (a non-handi-craft/unused) polar bear hides can not be sold to non-natives (it must be made into something first). We can trade fur in this unused condition to other Natives, though. The meat is eaten, by both the people and their dog teams. I'm told this meat is quite oily, of which I've never had any before. The skulls can be made into a craft of some sort, ie the jaw can be made into a baslet sled (simular to an Ididirod style sled). The teeth can be made into pendents, as an example. What I've done is to remove the canines (and other smaller teeth), which measure over four inches most times, is to make them into key chains or pendents. I haven't worked on any of the bones yet. I gather they must be very dense, and would make for suitable carving material. I hunted for polar bears before, with my best friend, but got stuck in a blizzard, and was forced to head home. I'll head out again one of these days. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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| <Ranger Dave> |
In Alberta,I believe, shot a griz with a 30-30 at night when it tried to break into the home/cabin. They found it in the morning dead. I would shoot a griz with a 30-30. My father killed one with a 303 many years ago in the Yukon. | ||
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| one of us |
I love Mikey1's story about his grandma...that woman not only had the cahones to stand down a charging grizzly but did so mounted on a horse! I can't imagine any horse that would stand still in the face of such a threat...I got dumped last weekend when a bunch of wild turkeys took off 3 yards to my left as I was cantering through some tall grass...there are only two kinds of riders...those who have fallen off and those who will... | |||
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| One of Us |
KN In the Chilcotin 60 years ago the only thing toughter than the people were the horses. Not much has changed. I was talking to my mom about this thread the other day and she remembers a neighbor lady (20 miles away) who did something similar. Way back then Cows were the only income and 20 steers could be your total income for the year. They had to drive the cattle over 300 miles across country and at the end they had to swim them across the Fraser River before arriving at Williams Lake. Quite an adventure and cows were there lifeblood. Anyway, during WWII most of the men were off saving the Empire and the women and kids were left to keep the ranches operating and safe. This one neighboring ranch had two steers killed by a Grizzly in a short period of time so the woman who lived there decided to fix the problem. She climbed up in a Pine above the most recent kill and waited for the Bear to come back. It snowed that day and all night and the next evening she was found by her children almost frozen to the tree branch but with the Grizzly dead at the bottom of the tree. She had shot at dark the first day and wounded it and the Bear had tried to come after her up the tree. She emptied her rifle into it, in the dark, not knowing if she had hit it again and not being able to see. She was afraid to come down because she could not hear anything and overnight she got so cold with hypothermia and the snow she couldn't get down. She was unconcious when found but survived. | |||
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| new member |
The following is an account of the last Grizzly killed in Utah, and it was a monster. I seem to remember Sam Fadala stating that it was done with a Winchester 1894 in 30-30 but this account states that it was a 25-35! http://library.usu.edu/Specol/ephraim.html | |||
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| <'Trapper'> |
I can't comment on the use of the 30/30 but I'm sort of like Ray A.: I'd damn sure shoot a bear with one if I had one and that was all I had! Some 2-3 years ago I received the little newsletter from Sierra and some one had gone to AK and killed the largest brownie of the year - one shot from his Ruger No 1, chambered in 7x57. Would I use this caliber if I were going? absolutely not, I'd take along my 375 H&H. But I have no doubt these calibers have worked and will work IF you do your part. I have also read stories like the guy that popped a grizzly with his 401 Winc SL. The bear killed him and was never found. So note carefully what I said about doing your part. ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} Regards, | ||
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| one of us |
Biggest bear I've heard of taken by hunters here was around 1600 pounds. He was very large, and took 11 shots from 375 H&H's to kill him. s | |||
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| one of us |
HI, I find this a little funny in away. I have heard here from so many how a LEVER is so dam bad. And when I told many here of the lever I was getting custom made by MR. Dave Clay and it was a win 86 50-110. I was told by these people at the African forum how bad a lever was because it was not a bolt action. I fired my 50-110 with a 525 grain WFN HC bullet at 2200 fps without a problem, with 5,700 ME, I thinks this will kill anything around on this whole DAM planet.The people on African Forum would not believe even though I did this and the gentleman fron Buffalo Bore did it. He even give me the data, The bottom line the people here just hate levers, and thet think a lever cannot handle the PSI a bolt can, but they have no clue of levers as the only rifle they learned about are bolts. . Thanks,Kev | |||
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| one of us |
Rusty Gunn - You mentioned pulling the teeth and making stuff from them. I've tried that as well, but they seem to dry and split after a year or two. Have you had that problem? I've been thinking of trying a shellac, or some other clear coat... | |||
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| one of us |
quote:I haven't seen any that had split yet, but I do understand it can and probably will eventually happen. No one has returned any to me in this condition, nor mentioned this, but then again most of the folks who bought them live elsewhere. What I have done to help stop the splitting is to fill the tooth with epoxy, figuring this may help. I haven't actually tried to coat the teeth with anything, but figure it might help. I'm sure I'd try it eventually. HTH ~~~Suluuq | |||
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| One of Us |
quote:It's an engineering thing. How many full time dangerous game professional hunters use a lever to back up clients? (Let's exclude the occasional stunt.) How many police departments or militaries use levers? How many personal defense trainers recommend a lever for home defense? If you prefer a lever that's fine, but you should have enough self-confidence to not need validation from the African forum. | |||
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