Here's some pics and story of a recent caribou hunt with my daughters. Below are copies of three posts I made on the Swiss Rifle forum, telling the "story". If it's too long for ya, just look at the pictures.
Paul
The killer and her prize.
quote: This hunt took place about 75 miles west of Lake Louise just south of the Susitna River in Game Management Unit 13 on the Nelchina caribou herd.
It's a nice bull for sure, but about average for my 12 years of hunting here. It green scores about 360 B&C. I have 4 (one is my daughter's), over 400 from this area. While its bez's and shovel are very good, the tops are practically without palmation, but have nice long (11 - 14" tines. Also, it does not have a lot of mass above the bez'. That may sound like I am a "trophy hunter", but that is not the case I assure you. This hunt is, and has been for the last 40 years, the annual meat hunt for my family. By the same token, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with trophy hunting. In fact, I consider "trophy hunting" in many cases to be the more "noble" attitude. (Of course,that "attitude" can be abused as well.) Furthermore, I always shoot the largest bull/animal I can, because they have the most meat. I am usually suspicious of self-proclaimed "meat hunters" that shoot "small" animals or females because "they taste better". That's not subsistence hunting.
Finally, to the story. Actually, it comes in two parts: First, the gun story, and then the hunt.
I've had the K-31 for about 9 months, but had yet to shoot it, or any of the other three I recently bought with. This one was of the 780XXX SN vintage. Because non-milsurp ammo and even components are so difficult to come by, I had yet to "field test" any of the rifles. Recent experience with with Mosin-Nagant M44s and M39s had left me less than impressed with both the models' "inherent" accuracy or my own abilities with open, milsurp sights. It was clear that I would need to get a 'scope on any milsurp I was going to hunt with. The combination of military sights and my 50+ -year-old eyes weren't gonna cut it. I had seen several posts on various milsurp sites referencing "Darrell's" Scout Mounts. The most significant characteristic being that they would allow the rifle's hictorical accuracy/collector's value to be maintained. I ordered one for a $50 SOG M44. Loaded some .308 and .311 150s for it, and took it to the range.
I exaggerate not, shooting at a 4-foot x 3-foot piece of sheet rock at 40 yards, the .308 bullets MISSED THE 12 SQUARE FOOT TARGET BACKING HALF OF THE TIME! I was unimpressed to say the least. The .311s were all inside 12 square feet, but were producing groups of about 1 foot. That translates to 2.5 feet at 100 yards. Not my idea of hunting accuracy.
When I got the M44 home, I checked the muzzle, and found it so worn that there were NO lands detectable for about the first 1/2 inch, and I could put a .308 bullet in the muzzle a good 5/8ths of an inch (flat base, base first) without meeting resistance. And no, it wasn't counter-bored. Since I had promised Darrell I would take one of his mounts on my annual caribou hunt for a field test, I was a little stressed about accomplishing that test. Darrell called me "cold" 7 days before we were due to fly out to the hunt, to ask how I liked the mount on the M44. I told him my range results, and expressed concern about my ability to give the mounts a fair test on the caribou hunt. He asked if I had a K-31, and when I said yes, he told me he had a new K-31 kit, and maybe I should try that. I jumped at the idea, and, as I said above, got the whole kit - mount, rings, and 'scope. He sent them via Express Mail, and I got them on Thursday. We were to fly out on Monday.
The only brass I had was some WW Super .284 Win Mag new brass I had gotten off e-Bay. A local "expert" had told me that .284 brass was "a waste of time and money" because "the head was too small and USUALLY, extraction failed". He sells Norma products. I really didn't have a choice, but I certainly lacked confidence in the .284 loads.
The next "adventure" occurred when my bench broke as I was FL resizing the brass. Wonderful. Not to be denied, I put a Hornady .300 Weatherby Neck Resizer die in the RCBS Rockchucker and operated it it my lap. Of course I couldn't FL resize, but I could expand the necks. I then used my Hornady 7.5x55 Swiss die to compress the neck to proper dimensions to hold the bullet. Again in my lap. After the first 20 rounds, it was getting "old", and I was running out of time if I was going to get this untested load tested before the hunt. One recipe (54.0 grains of H4350 beneath a 125 grain Speer) was gonna have to work.
I took the loads and the rifle out behind my garage, set up a target at 25 yards, and "let fly". Having only used Darrell's instructions for initial alignment of the mounts, I was 5" high and abut 3" left of POA. Some adjustments and a few shots, and I was 1" high a 25 yds. I reloaded the 8 fire-formed rounds. That was Sunday night.
I gotta go cut meat. I'll be back for the "hunt" story later.
Paul
quote: On to the hunt.
My two daughters, Caitlin 10 and Erin 12, and I left for Lake Louise after Erin's first-period math test on Monday, 9/16. We got to LL about noon and met Charlie Akers our charter pilot. This was the 12th year we had flown with Charlie to hunt from his cabin. It was Caitlin's first hunting trip, and Erin's third. Erin had taken a dandy B&C bull her first year with a .17 Rem I made for her, and was eager to repeat the feat this year. My wife and I had hunted here for 5 years until the herd numbers dropped, and she was no longer able to get a permit. This hunt is a special subsistence hunt, and you have to have both demonstrated long use and residence longevity. With my family's hunting this specific area for 42 years, and my 42 years of residence longevity, I barely make the cut. It's a real travesty, but that's another story.
This was also Caitlin's first floatplane flight so she was pretty jazzed as we took off and flew the half hour over to the cabin. We saw both wolves and grizzlies on the flight, as well as moose and caribou.
We settled in at the cabin and took the small boat out on the lake and caught a few grayling and lake trout. Can't shoot same day airborne in AK (with a few special exceptions), so we enjoyed the good weather and fishing.
When we got up the next morning, there was a small herd of 11 cows and calves about 400 yards behind the cabin, but no bulls. Only bulls were legal. The season closed on Friday the 20th, so this week was "it". All the reports from previous hunters had said that there were just no bulls to be seen, and I had no reason to believe otherwise. In the 12 years of hunting out of Charlie's cabin, I had never been skunked, and I was appropriately confident that I would not be this year, but I also knew that it could happen. With caribou, if they're not there, you can't hunt "harder" and be successful. Either they're there, or they're not.
The wind picked up early, and after a very unproductive morning, we headed back to the cabin. I fixed the girls lunch, and headed back out to a lookout spot to glass. The wind was pretty stiff (a constant 25 mph at least) and it was blowing pretty cold out of the north. I had seen the weather projections, and I knew a storm was due in from the Bering Sea within 48 hrs. The girls stayed in the cabin.
From my lookout, I could see about 2 miles to the North in 180 degrees from East to West. Two miles was WAY too far to consider shooting a bull caribou. I would have to carry the meat back by myself, and the return trip would be almost entirely uphill. It just wasn't an option. The animals would have to get within 1 mile, and even that would be "long".
I saw a small herd of 13 animals off at about the 2 mile point. In the bunch were two bulls. Even at that distance, I could see that one had a good "lower" rack. But they were just too far away. I watched for about 2 hours hoping they would move my way. They did not. In the mean time I spotted a grizzly almost as far away as the caribou. Since I would not have to salvage the entire carcass of the bear, I decided to see if I could get to him without getting "busted". As it turned out, the caribou were working their way toward the bear also. When I reached the area where the bear had been, he was gone, but the caribou were now only about 400 yards from me. As they were behind a small hill, I snuck into position and waited for them to crest the hill. And waited. And waited. After 30 minutes, I saw them "high-tailing it" over a pass about a mile and a half away. Either the bear or I had spooked 'em.
I headed back to the cabin. Those two bulls were the only bulls I saw all day. I had NEVER seen so few animals in this area before. I knew the weather wasn't gonna last, and I was more than a little concerned that we might get skunked.
We woke on Wednesday, and the weather was cold and cloudy, with the wind out of the north still steady. I told the girls that I thought we were going to have to hunt farther away from the cabin than I wanted if we were gonna have a chance. We headed out to the lookout.
Not a hundred yards from the cabin, I looked to the western horizon made by a ridge about a mile and a half away. On it were silhouetted two bulls, and one had a very nice lower rack. It might have been the same two as yesterday - we'll never know. In any case, they were not with the 11 cows and calves of the previous day. I told the girls that they might be our only chance, and even though they were considerably farther away than I wanted to consider, we ought to get closer. We snuck up to a smal knob, and set up to wait and watch.
The bulls were moving toward us, but they certainly weren't in any hurry. In addition, at any moment thay could turn slightly, and head over the ridge, away from us down toward the river. When they dropped into a small depression, I told Erin that we had better try to "close the gap" or we might lose them. Caitlin was getting cold, and went back to the cabin. Erin and I crept up to the crest of the hill just above the small depression where I had last seen the bulls.
As we approached the crest of the knob, the bulls were nowhere in sight. It appeared that while we were "closng the gap", they were opening it, and had turned toward the river. We stood upright to survey the whole countryside. As we did, the bulls "materialized" out of the scrub birch surprising us as much as we surprised them. Range was about 30 yards.
The day before I had realized that the stiff wind was likely going to render use of the .17 out of the question, and so I had let Erin practice dry-firing the K-31 to get used to the two-stage trigger, just in case the opportunity arose. (I thought this might be risky, as I had heard that K-31s were prone to break firing pins if dry-fired, but I thought I needed to take the risk.) This was that opportunity. I figured the recoil would be un-noticed in the "heat of the moment", and with the scout-type mount, I wasn't worried about "scope eye".
I've hunted caribou enough to know that if you don't shoot at them, they will almost always run only a little way before they stop and turn to see if you're chasing them. I gave Erin the K-31, and told her to get in a sitting position so she could hod the 10 lbs of the K-31 and scope. Sure enough, at about 140 yds, the bulls stopped and turned to see if we were pursuing. The "good" one turned fully broadside. When I said shoot, Erin shot. The 125 hit the bull in the right humerus shattering it, rupturing the brachial artery and passing on into the chest, but he did not go down. I took the rifle, chambered another round and handed it back to Erin, telling her to shoot him again. She did. Right in the heart. He staggered, but did not go down, and turnned his butt toward us. I chambered another round, but told her not to shoot again until he once again turned broad-side. His buddy was running off, but this guy wasn't moving, and while I didn't know at that moment how hard he was hit, I knew he wasn't going anywhere fast. He took a few faltering steps away, but coudn't work up any speed. Finally, he once again turned broad-side - the other side - and I told Erin to shoot. As I heard the third shot hit, he staggerd sideways and fell over. He was "out for the count". The laser ranger showed him at 152 yards. It was 1120.
We signaled Caitlin from the top of the hill, and she hoofed the mile and a half to us where the bull lay. We took a bunch of pictures, and started butchering the animal. Both girls helped, and in about an hour, I had half of the bull in bags. Caitlin hadn't brought her pack, so she lead as we headed back to the cabin with the first load. I had both right quarters and all the gear, and Erin had the backstrap, neck and rib meat.
When we got back to the cabin, the wind had picked up consderably, I could see the storm coming about 15 miles away, and I was seriously concerned about getting the bull back to the cabin before the storm hit. I really didn't want the meat wet. Erin and I hustled back. I got the rest of the bull taken apart, and we headed back to the cabin about 1515. Same loads as the first trip, except I also had the head and rack and Erin had the tenderloins as well as the backstrap, neck and rib meat. We were in the cabin by 1600. At 1745 it started snowing.
That was Wednesday. The plan was to have Charlie pick us up Thursday at noonish. It didn't look like that was going to happen. It got colder, the wind blew harder, and the snow increased. The wind was a steady 35 knots, with gusts to 45. The wind stopped on FRIDAY at 0430. The snow stopped on FRIDAY at about 0900. Drifts were only about a foot and a half. Frankly, I don't know how ANY of that snow even HIT the ground. It was purely horizontal for nearly 48 hours.
It's late, and I've gotta go, but I'll discuss my experiences and opinions about the "suitability" of the 125 AND the .17 tomorrow.
Please excuse the typos, I really have to go with no time for proof-reading.
Paul
quote: Regardng the 125 grain bullet and its appropriateness for caribou, and the .17 too, for that matter, let me say this; bullet placement is the single most important factor followed closely by knowing the cartridge's as well as your own limitations.
I won't belabor the point with ballistic numbers regarding the .17 REM. Suffice it to say that I have killed several caribou and Sitka Balcktails with this cartridge, and not one left its tracks. All shots were less than 160 yds, and no wind. Having said that, it is not my choice for caribou hunting.
In the first instances, I was on a Blacktail hunt in Southeast, and the 'scope on my 7mm RM was broken in camp by another hunter "horsing around". I was left with the .17 as my only alternative on a 7 day, remote hunt. It performed flawlessly and impressively on three nice bucks. All were taken at less than 100 yds, all were shot in the neck, and all were dead before they hit the ground.
While doing some research on the north slope of the Brooks Range, I loaned the .17 to a friend who I thought was going to shoot foxes with it. Instead he shot 3 bull caribou. According to him, all shots were under 150 yards, all were neck shots and they all dropped "in their tracks". I saw the carcasses, and have no reason to doubt his representations.
My daughter is of slight build, and at ten years old (two years ago) had a very short length-of-pull. She was a disciplined and excellent target shot, and I had no reason to believe she would be any different under hunting conditions. However, there was no other rifle I could think of that could "do the job" AND I could modify for her to shoot except the .17. I bought another stock, shortened the LOP and put a Harris bipod on it. ALSO, I was there to back her up with my .338 . As I expected, backup wasn't necessary. One shot behind the shoulder at a "lasered" 159 yards, and the bull died on the spot.
With regard to the 125 grain bullet in the 7.5x55; Again, this cartridge would not be my choice for caribou hunting. I have an experienced-based opinion that DIAMETER is the single greatest factor in a bullet's "knock-down" ability. NOT a bullet's lethality. However, the ability to " put the animal down" is FAR more a function of caliber than it is of either velocity OR weight.
Since I had promised Darrell I would field test the Scout mount on a K-31, caliber was not a choice. Since I am fairly unimpressed with weight, (it only makes two holes, not bigger ones), I wanted a bullet weight that; 1) I could get near or over 3000 fps muzze velocity, 2) would have relatively low pressure, or at least not require me to "push" the pressure envelope, and 3) would produce a reasonable recoil. I knew the .30 cal would be sufficient, as will many other of smaller diameter, and the 125 satisfied the other criteria.
When I got married, I built my wife a 7x57. With it she has taken several caribou, pronghorns and mule deer. I load 115 grain HPs in it for her. In my velocity/KE "uber alles" days, I put a 7mm bullet on a 300 Weatherby case. (The 7x300 - Essentially the same ballistic performance as a 7mm STW - only 25 years earlier.) I loaded everything from 100 grain HPs to Barnes 195 grainers for that rifle. The "killer" is the 115 grain Speer HP, which I can shoot at 0.5 MOA all day long.
NOW, having said ALL of that, here's what I PREFER for caribou and anything larger - The .338 Win Mag shooting 165 grain Barnes Xs. When hit with that combination, caribou fall over. Period. They do not "stand around" - They do not "wander off" - They do not "think about dying" - They hit the ground. That's what I like. That little 7x57 kills 'em, no doubt. However, they often "think about dying" too long for my tastes. I offered to make my wife a .308 Win. (a cartridge I love) but she has grown "attached" to the 7x57. And as most of you know, confidence in one's weapon is extremely important to hunting success.
BUT... I will still be hunting caribou with a .17 Rem until my BOTH my daughters can handle a .257 Roberts AI. I will be backing them up with the .338 and they won't be shooting at distances greater than 150 yds or in stiff winds. Given the "gentle nature" of the 7.5x55 with 125s, I suspect here will be a few of those thrown in as well.
Thanks to those that waded through this long story for your kind comments,
Great story and Caribou! Sounds like those girls have a wonderful teacher. From what I have heard about Caribou hunting (never been myself), you definitely know what it takes to put them on the ground. Hope the tags and Bulls come your way for a long time!
Thanks, Bill
Posts: 1169 | Location: USA | Registered: 23 January 2002
gitano great post Thanks.Pumped me up for my annual bou hunt.I leave for Wyoming antelope with the wife this sat.Hunt for 3 days then i'll be up for my hunt.Got me chompin' at the bit Jeff
It was very late when I read your story so I figured I'd write once I was a little more cogent. Great story and I agree with those that think it should be published. Your writing is much more enjoyable to read than many if not most of the current line of gun /hunting writers. Congratulations to you little girls for their efforts and your eldests marksmanship. Good training Dad!
Posts: 257 | Location: Long Beach | Registered: 25 June 2002
You guys are very kind. Truth is, I am very blessed. Before I started putting this report to "paper", I was thinking about writing it as "whole" instead of parsing it, but 1) it was long, and 2) I promised Darrell a field report. I'm working on a draft "story" (as opposed to a report) to put on Tom Danl's "Tell a Story" site. When I get it there, I'll let you guys know, and I would appreciate your comments on a more "polished" version.
Gitano, I have two little girls myself and have been stocking up the gun safe for them and the future. Hopfully in a few years I can put some pictures like that in the scrapbook. Tell them good job!
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