A friend of mine got his father's US Carbine 30 M1 and a Marlin 35 Remington Lever action when his father passed away. He doesn't know anything about reloading or hunting and asked me to help him out. I have never reloading these two rounds and when I looked up typical reloading data, they don't seem to be adequate for even hunting deer, much less something larger like elk.

Am I totally off the mark here? Neither round looks terrible accurate. The write up I read about the 30 M1 said it is mostly used for casual shooting or plinking. The 35 Remington is a handgun cartridge.

Any information you can share with me that I can relay back to my friend would be great.

Thanks,
Kory

Well the .35rem. is a lever action round that has made a good living in the TC Contender. I would call it an adequate deer round under 100yds, preferably closer. It probably has taken elk but not even my 10th choice there.
The .30carbine is at best a close range varmint round but better plinker than anything else. It was designed as a close combat weapon for guys in WWII that couldn't handle a pistol. I wouldn't even try to deer hunt with one except in an emergency situation.

Fred covered the 30 Carbine just fine.. I hope you friend doesn't do anything stupid and sell them... unless it is to seafire, for cheap....

The 35 Remington, is one of those left over cartridges from long ago.. only Marlin chambers it in anything besides a Handgun/Contender type weapon....

it was not designed to compete in that "long range" potential market that everyone thinks they need nowadays....

it was designed for fast handling brush hunting.. where your game is from 50 to 100 yds.. which is still most of what deer hunting is...

Not on paper, but in the real world, It offers more lethality potential than a 30.30 does....
For Elk under a 100 yds, in brush, it will do just fine. and that is what it was intended for...

a slow moving 200 grain 35 caliber round nose will penetrate a lot more than the 4000 fps premium spitzer crowd will admit to.. or have a clue about...

it wasn't designed for 400 yd antelope... but if you can hit an antelope at 400 yds with one, it will certainly drop the antelope!

if he doesn't think much of it.. believe me, in Montana, there should be a lot of knowledgable takers, that would gladly give both rifles a new appreciative home.....

I know one guy here in Oregon that would take them off of his hands...cheap since they are such 'useless' rounds...

cheers
seafire

Hey Kory, Some of the first Deer I drug for my Elders were taken with the excellent 35Rem. It simply hammers Deer when placed Low in the Shoulder.

I can recommend the 180gr FP Speer Hot-Cor as a perfect match for this cartridge. Three of the Elders I remember always used H4895 and there are a good number of Powders which will work well with it.
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It has been 25-30 years since I messed with the 30Carbine. Had a buddy get an old one made by "Singer"(the sewing machine folks) during WWII.

I seem to remember 110gr bullets and H110 Powder as what we used to get it firing. But that could be full of beans,been too long. Just look in your Speer Manual and see what it recommends.

I agree the 30Carbine round is really best for plinking around, but it tosses the cases, so you have the aggravation of locating them.

But the 35Rem is just an excellent up-close Deer cartridge.

The .35 Remington in a Model 81 Gamemaster is a game getter. It is a woods combo, so keep shots close and it will anchor what you're shooting at, including big ungulates.

At 100 yards the 35 will give a couple hundred ft/lb more energy than a 44 mag. The 30 carbine will be give about 30% less.

The 35 lever action would make a nice brush gun for deer, bear and boar as long as the shots are keep within range.

The 30 Carbine was supposed to be the answer to light machine guns for the infantry, especially during Korea. They were mainly issued to NCO's and officers at that time.

During the 60's there were a lot of magazine articles around about sporterizing these weapons. With the FMJ bullet is at best plinking gun. It's biggest contribution today, is that it has lead to light 30 plinking bullets for the reloader. The guns themselves were never known to cutting edge accurate.

In either case, have him take the guns to a good smith before he starts playing with them. If they are in good shootable condition, then there is no reason why they can not still be good hunting / plinking weapons.

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the reply. I guess my friend isn't as bad off as I had originally thought. I will relay all of this information to him.

Another question I forgot to ask: he also has a 410 shotgun (can't remember the brand) and wants to shoot the Colt 41 cartridge. How will have round fair in a smooth bore barrel? For Varmint? Deer? Elk?

Thanks,
Kory

Kory:

As one who shot an M1 carbine back in the days when dinosaurs walked the earth, I totally agree with fredj338. It is NOT a deer cartirdge under any circumstances whatever. The 35 Rem. is a great deer cartridge in woods for close shots. ( I suspect that in your neck of the woods the shots are longer) Even the 35 Rem. is not a good choice to make a shot at the south end of a deer going north. However I will say that the 35 Rem. has killed an awful lot of deer (and black bear,too) The 200 gr. factory load just doesn't seem worth reloading. It always was considered to have a slight edge on the 30-30 ( no slouch itself in the deer killing department!) but I just don't see it for use by you guys out there in the wide open spaces.

quote:

Originally posted by Kory:
...he also has a 410 shotgun (can't remember the brand) and wants to shoot the Colt 41 cartridge....

Hey Kory, No, that won't work. He would need a 45(Long)Colt for it to be the proper size, but it also depends on the "strength" of the action.

Thompson/Center made some that you could shoot both in, but they were designed for a lot higher Pressure than a regular shotgun.

So, it is best to just avoid that situation all together. Some of the Factory Ammo for a 3" .410Shotgun comes with 3 Lead Balls instead of shot, if that would interest him.

quote:

quote:

he also has a 410 shotgun (can't remember the brand) and wants to shoot the Colt 41 cartridge....

Hey Kory, No, that won't work. He would need a 45 (Long) Colt for it to be the proper size.

Let's be really careful here. The 410 shotshell fits in an overlong 45 Colt chamber. A 45 Colt catridge is never used in a 410 shotgun chamber.

I was told the 410 can shoot a 41 Long Colt but it not recomended because of the smooth bore.

Kory

Kory, the .41lc is a smaller dia. than the .410 shotgun. HotCore is right, you need a .45colt, but that doesn't work either because of the smooth bore.

I guess I will have to disagree with some of the rest.

The 30 carbine round makes a ok deer rifle if used properly a 110 sp at 1900fps will kill deer just fine with proper bullet placement.

If one treats it more like a pistol then a rifle round it well work just fine.

Too many think that it is a rifle it must beable of killing deer out to 300 yards or so. Use it to a 100yards or so get good shot place ment and deer well die.

A lot of people would think nothing of shooting deer with a 357 or 44 or 45 colt when the 30 carbine beats them in vel and energy.

Just as with any low power deer round one must be willing to wait for the best shot.

I have in my library a copy of the 1951 NRA "Hunter's Handbook" in which is an article about lethal deer calibers. The first most lethal was the '06, second was the .35 Rem. Now I know deer have recently grown immune to the .35 Rem, and they just don't die anymore when shot with one. But back then it was a stellar performer on deer. I suspect it would work just as well on larger game as long as the range is kept to sensible limits!


Take care,

Tom

Interesting. I checked a couple of places, and I can't find any 35 Remington brass or loaded amoo. Is it hard to get?

Kory

The older writers -- Keith, Whelen, O'Connor -- all felt it an excellent deer cartridge and suitable for elk when used with care. O'Connor even had this to say: "for really tough animals like grizzly and brown bear, however, I would say that the .35 Rem is on the light side, and no one but a cool and expert shot should hunt big bear with it." Last time I was home, loaded ammo was on the shelf at the Gander Mtn.

One last question: I may just recommend to my friend that he buy a new rifles with a good all around cartridge for deer, elk, and black bear (self defense only). I've narrowed my choices down to these three cartridges: 270 Win, 308 Win, or 30-06 Springfield.

Which one fits the bill the best? I wanted something that is easly to reload, plenty of factory ammo, brass, load data, etc. He doesn't want more recoil than a 30-06.

Thanks,
Kory

quote:

Originally posted by Kory:
One last question: I may just recommend to my friend that he buy a new rifles with a good all around cartridge for deer, elk, and black bear (self defense only). I've narrowed my choices down to these three cartridges: 270 Win, 308 Win, or 30-06 Springfield.

Which one fits the bill the best? I wanted something that is easly to reload, plenty of factory ammo, brass, load data, etc. He doesn't want more recoil than a 30-06.

Thanks,
Kory

The 30-06 is the most likely choice, but all 3 are pretty equal for most North American game. They all have been around for along time. All three are available with some good factory loaded bullets. All three will have a good resale value.

For 35 Remington brass, check on eBay and Gunbroker. There people selling in on both right now.

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"It is the right of every American to buy a rifle chambered for a cartridge other than the 30/06. But it is no great tribute to his intelligence if he does so." E.C. Crossman

Hey Kory, First off let me strongly encourage you to invite your buddy over and show him how to Load his own ammo. If something happened (due to no fault of "your" ammo) and your buddy got hurt, his Insurance Provider would feel obligated to come after "you" or your parents for full recovery costs.

Not saying anything at all would happen, but once you get my age you realize things occasionally just don't go as planned.
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I"ve had 308Wins since the `50s and they are outstanding cartridges. But for Elk, the 30-06 has more potential to do what he would want.

Plus, if you teach him to Reload, he can load them at 308Win levels until he is comfortable with it there and then ease it right on up if he wants to.

You can make a 30-06 perform at a 308Win level, but you can not make a 308Win perform at the level "possible" with a 30-06 in a newly manufactured rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Kory:
Interesting. I checked a couple of places, and I can't find any 35 Remington brass or loaded amoo. Is it hard to get?

Kory

Wally-World has 35Rem on the shelf.

the only places I've ever been that didn't have 35Rem ammo in stock were places that catered to the black-gun SWAT-wannabe crowd.

The 35Rem was originally developed as a companion cartridge to the 30Remington and 32Remington.

the 30Remington is literally nothing more than a rimless 30-30 Winchester, and the 32Remington
pretty similar to the 32WinSpecial.
the 35Rem was unquestionably the best of the bunch in being able to throw round nosed 200gr bullets slightly faster than a 30-30 throws it's flatnosed 170's

Speed lists a 180gr bullet @ 2224fps
and a 220gr bullet @1922fps
from a 20" Marlin 336.


they also list "reduced" loads with 158gr .358dia pistol bullets for practice/plinking

For purposes of comparison the 30-30Win
typically launches a 150gr bullet @ 2200fps
and a 180gr bullet @2100

So within 200yds in a good example of a rifle chambered for it (and the Marlin 336 is about the best rifle it ever has been chambered in)
it's a good white tail killer.

Probably more than adequate for any Blackbear.

and would likely serve real well to kill Mulies or even Elk if the range is close enough (inside 100yds) to allow proper shot placement.

One thing that never gets proper credit and that is that heavy bullets for caliber moving relatively slowly have been repeatedly shown to penetrate deeper than if the same bullet is driven faster.

I'm willing to bet that an elk shot with a 35Rem
and a 200gr bullet inside of 150yds would display a nice exit hole and associated blood trail.

Though admittedly as an easterner I wouldn't take the chance on a (probably) "Once in a lifetime hunt" for an elk and would instead use a 338Mag. Just to be sure.


AllanD

asdf:

Unlike ( as I suspect) many of the posters here, I have used a 35 Rem. on deer. It is very effective -but at close ranges (under 100 yards) I would take anything that Jack O'Connor said about calibers to use on big bears with a large grain of salt. ( He was urging the 270 for use on brown bears and grizzlies over the 30-06. I yield to no one in my liking for the 270, 130 gr for accuracy and to kill light game but O'Connor's argument carried the perfectly correct idea of bullet placement to ridiculous extremes. {Elephant have been killed with a 22 fired behind the ear. I sure wouldn't want to face elephant with a 22}

I don't jack recommend the 270 for big bears. He shoot some mt grizzys with one. But when he went brown bear hunting he used a 375.

p dog shooter:

Sorry, but O'Connor was famous for urging the 270 on brown bear. Half the country who had never seen a brown bear still laughed at him because he tried to urge the 270 over the 30-06. Unfortunately for him, some millions of guys had been discharged from service after using the 30-06. ( Calling it "US Rifle, cal.30,M1" didn't change its nature!) I'm sure the 270 would kill a brown bear - I just don't want to try it!. You say he used a 375? I never read that he even knew what the 375 H&H was. ( It was the H&H you're referring to, wasn't it?) Now, if you want to discuss Col. Keith and his preference for going the other way on using light v heavy bullets, maybe you and I can get a real argument going! Regards.