quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
If you could not use a Partiton OR a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw for a particular hunting application of your choice, what would be your backup choice in bullets? This is for any game of your choice...deer, elk, bear, moose...you name it.

Easy answer to that. Use the better bullet than either of the above. Barnes TSX. In fact already changed over to them. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog_Gary:

Easy answer to that. Use the better bullet than either of the above. Barnes TSX. In fact already changed over to them. Lawdog

Ahhh, another very intelligent soul. And what exactly helped you decide to come use the champion of bullets grasshoppa?

since i don't reload, and factory loaded partitions weren't particularly accurate in my 270 or my 300 wsm, i use 140 gr rem core lokt ultras in the 270 and 180 gr failsafes in the 300. Just went with these because they were the most accurate in my rifles. no complaints or reason to change. I did have a custom 30-06, but gave it to my son-in-law. i have wished many time that i had given him a different rifle. if i had the 06 back, i'd sell the 270/300. live and learn!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog_Gary:

Easy answer to that. Use the better bullet than either of the above. Barnes TSX. In fact already changed over to them. Lawdog

Ahhh, another very intelligent soul. And what exactly helped you decide to come use the champion of bullets grasshoppa?

First let me say that I tried the 115 gr. .257 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets in my .25-06 and .257 Weatherby and the resulting accuracy wasn’t as good as Nosler Partitions. Second I did a penetration test of my using wet phone books at 50 yards and I compared the 100 Barnes TSX to 115 gr. Nosler Partition and Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets. The results showed that the 100 gr. TSX would penetrate an average of 5 - 8 inches more than either the Nosler or Speer bullets. So after using nothing but Nosler Partitions for over 44 years the Barnes proved to me that they were more accurate, penetrated better and retained more of their original weight. Thus my reason for calling them a better bullet. Now I use nothing but Barnes TSX and Banded Solids in all my rifles no matter what the caliber. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog_Gary:

Now I use nothing but Barnes TSX and Banded Solids in all my rifles no matter what the caliber. Lawdog

A wise man has spoken.

Doc, based on your responses here, it seems the point of this thread is to confirm to yourself by other's affirmative TSX responses that you're a very wise man...

BORING...

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Doc, based on your responses here, it seems the point of this thread is to confirm to yourself by other's affirmative TSX responses that you're a very wise man...

BORING...

LOL. No not at all. But sorry to have bored you. I hold nothing back at all in my opinion of the TSX and I think it is great when someone else has success with it too. Me, wise, hardly, still learning daily.

I was wondering if/when someone would post something like you did. I think success is a good thing and I love partition bullets, sciroccos, btips, accubonds, and failsafes.

You ever buy a new car? Doesn't that "newness" get you pumped sometimes when it exceeds your expectations? Do you not enjoy when others share in the same experience?

I would never state that I am wise. However, based on others success, I'll tell them in a heartbeat that they are! Same goes for any bullet.

And no, the point of the thread was to satisfy my curiosity what folks use as a backup if they couldn't use their beloved TBBC or Nos. Part.

My apologies for boring you or misleading you. I try to condense my thoughts for the sake of brevity but I do not always manage that.

Doc, I do not find anything boring about this post. In my opinion, Barnes make a great bullet. All of my rifles shoot Barnes bullets only, except my Shiloh Sharps which I shoot cast and paper patched bullets. Hard to beat Barnes bullets in my opinion.

Well, RedHawk, as in anything we all interpret what we read in black and white and make our own conclusions. I've noticed every time I sit and enjoy reading stuff here on AR and begin to loosen up, someone always seems to form an opinion regarding the intentions of my post. I interpret what I read too, but I've personally never been bored with it.

Maybe I should be ONLY serious 100% of the time and never attempt to loosen up while sippin on a beer and type at the same time (which I do not do often).

Seems Brad thought my "agenda" was to confirm my own intelligence or degree of "wise-ness" just because I applaud someone else for using a bullet I like real well that is new to me (and them). Boy, I'll never do that again. I hate to bore even one individual.

The one thing I've managed to figure out is that we live in an era that has provided an embarrassment of richs when it comes to hunting bullets. There are so many truly good ones any more that it really gets down to choosing what shoots best in a given rifle and running with it.

My personal recover rate on bullets is about 12% for all makes/all species, discounting blow-ups or exits. I have a box full of recovered Nosler Partition, Trophy Bonded, Grand Slam, Power-Point, Sierra Game King, Hornady Inter-Loct, and Fail-Safe bullets, and I can't recall a single one that didn't work absolutely A-OK. I'd like to add other brands such as Swift to my recovery list, but all they've managed to do for me is go through the animals, bust stuff up, and exit.

Of course, some bullets, in general, haven't performed all that great at times, such as Sierra, but the true premiums have been fanatastic......

AD

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:

There are so many truly good ones any more that it really gets down to choosing what shoots best in a given rifle and running with it.

AD

I agree, that is why I ONLY use 130 partitions in one of my 270's. The groups I got with that rifle and the Lilja barrel would make you think I was shooting btips. I certainly never thought a partition would ever group that well, but it does.

I have a friend that uses a 300 Weatherby. Accuracy is nonexistant. He related to me that the very best groups he's EVER had with factory ammo were at best 3" at 100 yards. My first question was whether or not it was operator error, but then, if he consistantly gets groups like that then he's a consistant shooter.

I told him I'd be happy to work up a load (he's going to WY for elk this fall). I could not get anything to group either, at least no better than 2".

I told him that there was either a bedding problem, throat erosion, bad crown, or something was certainly wrong. Lucky for him, his cousin is a gunsmith in next door Michigan about 4-5 hours away.

So far, new crown, new bed job. Barrel was cleaned by ME using KG system.

(Oh, the scope and rings are all ok too).

New load: 78.0 Re22, 180 NOS Part., 3030, 1/2" for 4 shots. One complete square made from 4 holes. First time I've ever seen a group like that.

I'd go with Swift A-Frame, Northfork, Barnes, Failsafe... There are some excellent premium bullets nowadays.

I have to agree with Mark Young and Allen Day 100%...NP always work, and SAF are harder to stop.

Barnes bullets usually perform acceptably on animals (I will pick on caribou as an example because I have shot several caribou with 200 gr Barnes bullets in a .338 WinMag.), but the bullet itself takes up too much room in the cartridge. If you are loading for a .375 caliber rifle (say a .378 Wby), Barnes are marginal..you have to put less gun powder in the case to let the bullet seat properly, or you have to use a smaller bullet (in which case why bother?).

In a .416 Wby, Barnes bullets result in a supercompressed load. If you buy Weatherby bullets, they will shoot as fast as they advertize...and blow out the primer pocket on some pieces of brass. NP and SAFs load, feed and shoot much easier than Barnes bullets..if Barnes bullets did not take up so much volume, they would be a better bullet.

Barnes bullets are best suited for small or medium sized game (rodents, deer and black bear) in small rifles, from my experience. But even for deer and black bear, I would use NPs.

I use Barnes bullets in all my rifles)that includes all of my Weatherby Magnums) no matter what the caliber(from .224(.22 Hornet) to .458(.450 Rigby)) and have never experienced any problems with compressed loads. With the older X bullets I had to, in some cases, experiment with seating depth to get the accuracy I wanted buy not so with the new TSX/Banded Solid bullets. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
If you could not use a Partiton OR a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw for a particular hunting application of your choice, what would be your backup choice in bullets? This is for any game of your choice...deer, elk, bear, moose...you name it.

No doubt i would choose KJG or RUAG CDP, or TUGs

Doc, lighten up dude... I think you missed the "tongue in cheek"-ness of my post...

Regardless, for your edification, I'll report I've been getting absolutely wonderful groups with the 168 TSX in my 06 and will be killing all-manner of critters with them in MT this year to see if they're an improvement over the old X's with which I've experienced erratic performance on a limited amount of game in the past... we'll see!

My point is it's a bit premature to hail them the second-coming of bullet design until they've been in the field a decade or so... but I'm open minded

ok dude.

I WOULD SHOOT THE X ALL THE TIME ANYWAY.

In years gone by Ive never had a problem using "standard" bullets for the hunting I do, but I know there is a place for the tougher ones. My own personal belief is that, as the majority of lead core bullets go, the ones that have a cannelure seem to generally hold up and penetrate better than the ones that dont if that is something that is required. However.. Im about as hooked on Accubonds as ol' Doc is on the TSX. I really love the accuracy and they perform every bit as well as any standard bullet Ive ever used and better than most.

quote:

Originally posted by Safarischorsch:
No doubt i would choose KJG or RUAG CDP, or TUGs

I'm usually pretty good at this but... what are you talking about!??!

KJG: Kupferjagdgeschoß -- an all-copper bullet similar to the Barnes X.

RUAG CDP: A frangible hollow point made for police use by a Swiss firm.

TUG: A delayed expansion bullet made by RWS.

So do I win a cigar?

BTW, my two cents on the topic: FailSafes with the moly removed. (Use moly bore cleaner.)

I doubt CT would aprove, but I worked up carefully and am getting standard velocity without pressure signs.

quote:

Originally posted by Noel H.:
KJG: Kupferjagdgeschoß -- an all-copper bullet similar to the Barnes X.

RUAG CDP: A frangible hollow point made for police use by a Swiss firm.

TUG: A delayed expansion bullet made by RWS.

So do I win a cigar?

Well a cigarillo...

Call me a monkey but the CDP is not made for the police...as far as i know...

and its not frangible! It only deforms and looses less mass than a partition!

For the others:
http://www.kupferjagdgeschosse.de

http://www.blaser.de/english/produkte/accessories/cdp.htm


http://www.rws-munition.de/de/jagd_geschoss/tug_torpedo_universal_geschoss.htm

The Kodiak or North Fork.

Jayco

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
If you could not use a Partiton OR a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw for a particular hunting application of your choice, what would be your backup choice in bullets?

Woodleigh, Rhino, DeGol, Stewart, RUAG CDP, RWS EVO, Brenneke TOG, Starkmantel-Geschoß, Norma Oryx or GPA

Cheers
/JOHAN

Well I don't use Partitions so it's Barnes XLCs for me.

Swift A Frames or Barnes TSXs. I have to add it would also depnd on the caliber, MV and type of animal. Under 2700 fps, a Hornady Interlock would do just fine. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
I haven't tried TSXs yet, but I'll get around to it sooner or later.

I don't like regular Barnes X bullets because the OAL is longer than I'd like it to be, and they've copper fouled the barrel of every rifle I've fired them in very badly.

Fail-Safes have been very easy on barrels in my experience, don't leave residues that are particularly hard to clean, and they don't copper-foul nearly as much as some other bullets. I like the lead core in the base very much, since it reduces OAL significantly, and the steel cup and cap arrangement effectively keeps the lead core from being deformed or displaced. The rest of the bullet acts like a Barnes-X.........

AD

The new TSX bullets do not have the fouling problem in my experience.
That's the reason for the grooves (cannalures?).
They are however, very accurate in my rifle.

The extra OAL has not been a problem in anything I have loaded them in YET.
With that said, there is always next time...

.338 Win Mag 225g TSX, 4 shots right at 1" @ 100 yards. 3 in a little triangle, and the fourth inside the triangle. This gun has been very consistant with all loads, but these are a little better than average.

I am working on a .270 load (130g TSX)for one of my rifles and for a friends rifle also. It will be interesting to see how his does with these, as it is a shooter now with el cheapo factory loads. Mine has always shot well also. (1950 Steyr carbine)

I can hardly wait for elk season.

Put me down as one mor vore for BARNES X
all the way!!! They have never failed me.
Don't listen to the people that tell you that they aren't accurate. Play with headspacing and learn how to clean your rifle and they will shoot in anything.

Honkey