Hello all,
I drove out to Dickinson, ND to hunt pheasants this weekend on my family's (father's side) farm. No, I didn't complain about the $100 license (not to mention another c-note for ducks), but I did get pissed the second I pulled into the farm.
I was with my father and we had just driven in early Saturday morning. Right next to the first tree row sat two vehicles, one from WI and the other from CO. and empty dog kennels on the truck. We wrote the plate numbers down and called the game warden. He didn't arrive until the next day. After writing the info down we started hunting. We didn't see the other hunters around, and when we came back both cars were gone.

After we got our limit we took them back to the barn and started to clean them. And who happens to pull down the road...the pickup that was parked there before, now with hunters in back ready to head out again on our land. My father and uncle confronted them. They gave the usual bullshit excuse of "I talked to so and so and they said I can hunt here." Isn't it amazing of all the people they call and talk to it's never the name of the person on the POSTED sign? Anyway, there wasn't much to do w/out the warden there so my uncle and father just told them to leave.
The next day we caught another group (local from ND) who decided that my uncle gave them permission to hunt--more bullshit. We kicked them off too. Well, later we checked up on the name the two from WI and CO gave. He said that he kicked them off his land and told them he never wanted to see them again. What pisses me off most is how they lied to our faces. My uncle thought they must have gotten confused as to their location otherwise they would not have been so bold--WRONG.
There is nothing so frustrating as driving all night to hunt a place and find someone already there on YOUR land. I think there needs to be some serious penalties for anyone who trespasses on private land. I would say that suspension of hunting privelages for ONE YEAR would not be out of line. Also, any fines given should go to the landowners. People who get caught trespassing just play dumb and get away with it too much. Remember back when people used to get shot for trespassing?
I don't recommend killings, but the punishment should be on par with poaching in my opinion.

PS: Beware of a man driving a Red and White Ford F-250 Power Stroke Diesel w/Colorado plates: "RU-LOST" he is a liar and trespasser and a disgrace to sportsman everywhere. --Yes, ironic vanity plate for sure, we were too pissed at the time to laugh about it though. Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent and let others know that this is a big problem, and I don't think I'm alone in my views.

300HH, No, you're not alone in your feelings. YOU pay the tax bill on the land, do with it as you wish! Including keeping it as your families private reserve.

I was born and raised farming, which my brother took over when my parents retired. My father always kept the hunting limited to family and employees. He figured it was a perk he could provide to them that others didn't have. We always had people drive right through the buildings and head down through the fields. When confronted they always claimed ignorance. "we thought it was public land" was the most used! LOL Occasionaly, someone would get stuck in mud and come to the house looking for a tow! My father made them leave the vehicle there until it could be driven out. He didn't want them to tear up the ground any worse. Some rigs sat for 2-3 weeks before the ground firmed up after rain.

Oregon implemented stiff trespassing laws. Right in the game regs it states that crossing any change in vegetation, road, fence, ditch....anything that can be construed as a boundry can constitute tresspassing. If in doubt check first. If it isn't your land you are tresspassing and could be arrested. If a farmer tells a person they can hunt the corn field, that dosen't mean persission to hunt the whole farm.

Tell me, how many spare tires do people generaly carry? Next time, be sure they have one more flat than they have spares. A good trip to town on foot should remedy the situation. Maybe two trips if they are slow learners.

Nothing gets my blood boiling than to see a tresspasser/poacher. I feel your pain 300H&H.

The terrain on my ranch is too rough to usually do anything about it if I see a poacher. I am on one ridge, and he is across a few canyons or down by the river. I may see them, but if they see me too, they have an easy escape route (the river) which is also how they usually come in.

Texas has been very good about becoming more and more strict with their laws against poaching/tresspassing.

If you poach a deer in Texas and you are convicted, it is a felony. That means you can never own a gun or even use a gun for hunting in this state ... ever! That is pretty strict!

From the TP&W rule book - Posession of firearms by felons A convicted felon, regardless of where the conviction occured, may not possess or use a firearm (as defined by penal code 46.01) to hunt in this state ...

I caught a guy on my place last year. Of course when he was arrested he fought it. He told the DA that he thought it was public land (Right buddy, public land in Texas? Sure.) Then he told the DA that he had a camera, not a rifle.

This has gone on for about a year. If he is not convicted I will happily release his name for all of you to see. Until then I will just pray that the legal system can do its job.

He will loose his hunting rights for a year I think, maybe longer, but that is about it.

The same thing happens here in WA State. I work for a security co. that's contracted out to Weyerhaeuser. People think just because Weyerhaeuser has so much land it must be public land. You only have to drive 1 1/2 hours to get to some of the best National Forest land that goes from Mt Rainer to the Columbia river. I heard that some hunters were getting alot of flat tires. Fuzz

300 H&H

Why did you call the Game Warden instead of the County Sheriff?

Last fall in Northern BC, my son-in-law confronted a guy who was guiding other hunters on private land. They got into it a bit and the 'guide' actually claimed my son-in-law was trespassing on his own land. That's one way to piss a landowner off!!!!

I agree with the other guys, a long walk back on foot would change their perspective on things. In that case though you don't want to be associated with it, since they know where your property is.

In all seriousness, I think Texas has the right thing going. Granted, there are going to be times where people truly don't know they are on private land. But I know around the areas I go people make very sure to put signs up all over their boundaries. And there are also times when a person crosses a piece of property to get from one public piece to another. I think most of us would be understanding in these cases.

In the cases when they are clearly ignoring these things in interest of doing whatever the hell the please, I think that taking away their hunting license is a good step, it does prevent them from doing a "recreation" for a while. But let's remember what bothers most of us in our lives, having to spend time on things we DON'T LIKE DOING. So what about they also have to work on a forest service cleanup crew of some sort for a set amount of hours. Instead of just "losing" something like hunting for a year, they are having something "taken" from them. Time and labor.

Making somebody who thinks they are honest or wants the world to think they are, like many hunters who "bend" rules, look obviously crooked hurts them. So if they have to wear an orange jumper and work in a group of other people in trouble, it fronts them off. People hate that.

Red

Here in MI we have a huge number of hunters 3 or 4 from the top amount of any state I believe. Not that it matters , a guy is riding his quad across my buddys land. the feild is plowed he hits a big chunk of frozen dirt flips the quad breaks his neck. Now he is being sued by his own insurance company. He had his land posted it looked like a dot to dot of orange signs. So know he has paid a lawyer 5+K to protect him from his insurance company as the rider sued!!!??

I have two or thee tree stands stolen every year( chained) I have had to put a lock on my family deer shanty. People just do not care they do what they want. I could never hunt out of someones blind without permission.

Believe me I thought about flattening all four of the guy's tires. This would have definitely made him think twice. I decided against it considering the fact that he obviously thought he could do what he wanted, so I didn't want to be around when he saw it, especially when he has a shotgun in his hand.
The funny thing is, he was in a party, so he could have gotten a ride into town. His buddy who parked up on the road had a brand new lincoln navigator with an enclosed trailer. It's funny how somebody from CO with so much money would't just pay to hunt an area, SD even since it's closer. Instead he has to sneak on someone else's land.
The reason we didn't call the sheriff was because we assumed during season opener that they would be getting a lot of calls and trespassing certainly wouldn't be a main priority. They would have taken the offense way too lightly. Although I think we should report it, but it's probably too late.
--About every hunting magazine encourages people to "ask first." But they never mention how many people never actually call the number on the sign. My uncle drove 90 miles one way to post new signs and it didn't even deter people on opening day. I agree that there should at least be a revoked license. The manual labor would be a plus, but it would be hard to work out for the out of state law breakers.

It sucks, when people trespass on purpose. I have seen this too many times.

That being said, I received written permission to hunt a certain property including a description of the buildings on the property. I spent an entire day scouting a property. I went back to talk to the land owner about other things. He asks about how the scouting looked. As we talk, I found out that he only owned part of the land I scouted.

Has anyone tried billing trespasser for the use of the land and trophy fees?

There's not enough Co's or RCMP to respond to every tresspassing complaint in BC.

That being said, there is VAST areas of public land that can be hunted, so the only reason to tresspass is because all the deer go for the alphalfa fields (big surprise)

Alot of people do backdoor' enforcement around here.

How about slob land owners that hide behind trespass laws?

How about slob land owners that post land and padlock gates to keep the game warden out so they and their out of state clients can overshoot the limit by a factors of 3 and 4 and take hens? Several convicted in this jurisdiction of that very thing last year.

How about the �land owner� that posts BLM land he leases for grazing purposes and then chases off legitimate hunters so he can guide rich clients on this public land? It happened to me north of Craig, Colorado a few years back. I can read a map and I worked in law enforcement and I had an attitude and I refused to go quietly. A few feet off a boundary I can see, a mile or so off, fine, but I was twenty miles into BLM land and knew it. What really pissed me off was the pistol on the guy�s hip and how he fondled the thing while trying to intimidate. He last ploy was to order me to follow him to his ranch so he could call the sheriff so we could straighten this out. That would have put me on his legitimate private property and somebody that would lie about �owning� BLM land would certainly tell the truth about where the confrontation started, wouldn�t they? He and his argument fell apart when I went to the cab of my truck, I whipped out my map and asked him to show me just exactly where we were. He refused to do so. I handed him built in car phone and gave him permission to call the sheriff. He refused and left. The next time I saw this guy he and some of his �clients� were shooting at a mule deer buck from the cab of his pickup and missing. I so wanted to call the game warden but couldn�t. No phone service out there.

I support trespass laws. I support land owner rights. My wife and I have 2000 acres loaded with pheasant, grouse and deer, some of it posted because a lessee runs livestock on that land. We still grant permission to hunt to anybody that asks if they ask, just to know who and how many are on the land. We live close to a state highway and hunters ask often. I would feel hypocritical if I denied permission then hunted other people�s land, which I do. A gentlemen stopped last night to ask permission to hunt a sunflower field next to the house that the lessee harvested the day before. I know it�s loaded with pheasant because I see flocks of ten and a dozen strut across my yard every day or gather out on the road to peck gravel. Minutes before he stopped I had a rooster cross the yard heading for the field he wanted to hunt. He will be the first hunter in even ahead of me. I always welcome out of state hunters, wish then luck, and sincerely mean both. There is a middle road, a compromise, but it isn�t always the hunter�s fault. There are slob land owners.

[ 10-18-2003, 17:30: Message edited by: RogerK ]

Roger, the guys who post and try to evict from BLM land is rampant out here. The BLM won't do anything about it either. It usually comes down to sheriff settling it. I am a strong believer in land owner rights and give the utmost respect but when a land owner tries to block you from public land that he leases from BLM that is infuriating. Take a drive in Wy during hunting season and any where BLM adjoines private land, owners will try to bluff with signs and intimidation. Most are not real famers or ranchers, majority are absentee land owners with bank rolls that could choke a bull elephant.

[ 10-18-2003, 19:52: Message edited by: kudu56 ]

What I have seen in this regard is a pretty lax attitude on the part of the local law enforcement and prosecutor that leads to or allows the abuse to occur. More laws would not answer that issue. No matter what the law may be, without response from the enforcement community when called by the land owner, not much is going to happen. But everyone knew that already, didn't we? Gun laws have been worked in much the same manner. Gun laws weren't the problem either, but we sure have a lot of them. Does anyone think confiscating fingernail clippers and pocket knives will stop terrorists? It is not legal to trespass, it is not legal to shoot someone without legal cause, and it is not legal to hijack aircraft or crash them into buildings. Correct enforcement of existing law would go a long way. Just my opinion.

Len

8MM OR MORE, I wish I had had said what you said.

ddunn, in fairness to the enforcement community, the pressure they face is from the voters and the political arena. When the requirement to be a landowner was removed from the status of voter, the priorities changed. The genie is out of the bottle, never to return. The priorities have changed, not for the better. I still do not think more laws equal improvement, perhaps just the opposite.

Well 300,don't call a game warden. Call a sheriff's deputy and by all means use 911. There are laws on trespass and the judge has the option of breaking it off in these guys ass if he chooses to. The best part is,you'll usually find with the type of asshole that will trespass and lie, that these guys will have some other violation also. Like a DUI(especially your colorado dickheads who live the coors "rocky mountain high"),that they still have probation to serve on. This trespass violation,will cost them a fine plus possible jail time and it reinstates the conditions of the offense that they were on probation for to begin with. You mentioned waterfowl,if one of these assholes has a violation concerning waterfowl,while being nailed for trespass,things have now went federal. It pays to call 911,the legal system is a catch and release system. By getting a trespass violation these assholes now have a record if they didn't already have one. When it comes to being written a ticket or fined,your prior record plays a major role,in determining what the cop or deputy,prosecutor and judge do. Since they're out of staters,if it goes to court,they'll lose wages having to take off time to appear before court.

Then depending on your own standing on the subject. You can always take things into your own hands. Believe me,even if these assholes do have shotguns,are they really willing to die. No they aren't. But if you make it clear that they will end up a fuckin' corpse,then things get real simple real quick. Another sidenote,vehicles are damn tough to drive without tire valve stems and missing license plates really draw attention by law enforcement.

I own property and have went all the above routes with assholes that like to trespass and tell fairy tales. The most important thing is to post your private property,so that even a blind man could read the signs. Then talk to local law enforcement and even local prosecutors and establish your standing on trespassers on your private property and the measures needed to be taken. Then when a violation occurs,there is little doubt as to what to do by law enforcement. One local land owner has went as far as to advertise no trespasing in the local newspapers,needless to say,those that get caught,don't have a leg to stand on in court. Whenever you have a violation that is fineable,prosecutors and counties will take notice,because they like the revenue.

You'll hear all kinds of crying over this,but welcome to colorado cocksuckers. They've fucked up their own back yard and now just can't help but destroy yours. If you give a piece of shit from colorado a two day weekend,they'll worm their way 300 or 400 miles from home. Give these dickheads a 3 or 4 day weekend and they'll infect the entire western and midwestern states. Then you have the guys from wisconsin,who are out here to hunt mule deer.They think any property with pine trees is national forest,even though they have every map ever made and a gps.

The forest service just released their list of fines for the area I live in. Seventyfive violations in the last three months that were ticketed 50 of the fuckers were from colorado,5 locals and 20 from minnesota,wisconsin and georgia. When you consider most forest service employees spend 90% of their time behind a desk,the chances of being caught are slim.

[ 10-19-2003, 11:34: Message edited by: RMK ]

As for assholes that post state land as private. It happens all the time and until recently wasn't even considered a crime in wyoming.

RMK,
It sounds like you have it a lot worse than most of us. I lived in Colorado (grew up there from 83-97) and I used to love it there until, like you said, it got ruined. You bring up some great points and if I could rewind last weekend I would definitely make some changes. Being it was my first encounter with such brazen assholes I didn't have the trespasser-ass kicking experience of others. I should mention it is my father and uncle's land, but my cousin and I thought they handled the whole situation with reserve. I think next year us younger boys will have to step up.

PS: The license plate idea is damn near brilliant. You have to know they'd be pulled over on the way home and if they have any past history, or too many pheasants---damn shame (violin).

Since making the above post and with the hunting season coming up, I've done some thinking on the subject.

We don't need to change the trespass law. It's bad behavior, not felonious. Walking on somebody's property without damage can't be anything more than rudness magnified, but taking game on the land, well, that's another story.

How about making a hunting license null and void on posted land? That would make any game take poaching and would add a real crime to the bad behavior of walking or driving on somebody elses land. It works on a state to state to state basis. Several times a year I hunt deer right in the North Dakota South Dakota border. Driving to that special place has North Dakota on the left and South Dakota on the right. My license is good to the left, but not the right. Could be the same on posted land. That would make trespassers think twice.

I haven't had it any worse then other land owners. I've just been around it heavily for the past 30 years and things have went from a few locals breaking laws to dickheads from hundreds of miles away breaking laws.

The hunting license idea,has been kicked around. I've heard of wyoming game wardens,asking hunters to have a signature of the land owner on their license. The problem is anyone can forge a signature.

We have the same problem on our land, but take the licence and call the sheriff's dept instead of your Fish and Game. The Sheriff's will take action. We have our land posted so much you would think we owned a paper company and poachers/tresspassers still come in. Dont confront anyone with a weapon, as much as you would like to, as you can be arrested, and you will loose your gun rights.

I'm pretty rational about this, I think there should be a limit on tresspassers, say no more than 3 a day, but you can hang them on the fence.

You guys will like this...:

In Italy you are allowed, by right, by the law to access any private land to hunt and shoot on, as long as you are in posession of a valid hunting licence.

The landowner cannot do anything to oppose this, even if the persons are causeing a disturbance.

Should you wish to take any action against them, it becomes a personal affari. You have to take them to court, basically the same way as you would sue someone.

This requires time and money, and I doubt many magistrates would even hear out such a case.

If you want to keep poeple out, you have to fence the place off as the law requiers (1.8meter high fence or 3meter "moat") and after that, NO-ONE is allowed to hunt the land.

If you have low fencing for sheep or the like, you are required to build, or at least allow the building of ladders to allow for easier crossing.

I own 1100Hectares, of which around 800 are covered by a "reserve, or "riserva", like a park. It's an area where the only hunting allowed is that which is organised by the reserve itself. The other 300 odd hectares may as well not belong to me, as there are people shooting all over it. Not to mention that they like to walk the boundries...

Aside from the hunters, we have the mushroom collecters to contend with. They have no legal right to access you land, but they do anyways. Same again, if you would like to take action, call a layer. If you did take the matter to a court, they would probably reject the claim or call you in for the hearing some 10 years from now...

Makes me as mad as a cut snake, I remember finding rusty old sign hanging off fences that read:

PRIVATE PROPERTY
TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT!

I am the lone hunter that has permission to hunt on a 200-acre lot near me. I spent the whole day legally posting it, getting a good dose of poison ivy on my arms in the process.

Three days later, I walk in for the archery opener - guess what? - 4 of my posted signs have already been torn down!!! The worst part of it is that another hunter did it!

We also have a trespassing problem with our camp down in Pennsylvania. The only solution was a truce with a select few 'locals', who then keep a good eye on the property the entire year - it's a trade-off that's worth it.

Anyways, it's probably also against the law where you live, but carry a stack of cheap bumper stickers for the trespassers - a couple well-placed stickers on the windshield might send the message (you could tape down a no trespassing sign on the windshield with them).

I prefer using 4 wheeler engines and gas tanks for target practice. If you can put 3 rounds in the cylinder head at 300 yds. you can probably feel confident about a deer's vitals at 300, as well.

Last fall someone pulled down 3 of our gates and herded over 30 head of cattle all the way out to the main road.

No more Mr. Nice Guy. I charged a tow service a $300.00 "access fee" to cross my property to pull one trespasser out of a sink hole. I told him that he he could recoup the fee from the guy that was stuck. I told the guy that was stuck if he didn't get the truck off my property in 30 minutes, I was going to use a dozer to push it off my property. It ended up costing him over $750.00 to get off ny land.

The bulldozer idea came from a neighbor, he has pushed 4 vehicles over on their tops or over the hillside, to date, with no legal problems so far.

I lived in italy for six months and personally I think their attitude towards private land is all fucked up.

If a person owns the land then it's his to do with as he pleases, PERIOD. No one has any right to be on it, look at it, or breathe in it's direction other than the landowner.

I own 240 acres in mississippi. Since I've owned it I've had locks cut on my gates, numerous trespassers, piles of corn put out by poachers, tractors pulling bushogs run through my land, and an acre of planted timber destroyed by people who thought it their right to plant food plots on my land (I guess their food plots are more important that the planted pines I invested time and money into).

I have absolutely no respect for anyone who will violate someone else's land. They are the lowest of the low and it should be legal to shoot them on sight.

Socialistic governments that would tell you that any joe blow has as much right to the land as the person who owns it are a cancer upon the world, no better than the communistic soviet union. They have no legitimate authority and anyone defying them is perfectly within their right.

[ 10-20-2003, 13:01: Message edited by: boltman ]