The manufacture has done a great job selling this as an outstanding rifle to use for whitetails in North America. Take it for what it is worth, but this is my experience after over 20 deer that have been shot with this rifle.


Like I stated this is my experience. I think the rifle is great for long distance shots but for shooting any deer less than 150 yards you are going to find that you have what we call a Trackers Gun ! Bullet is too fast and does not have time at close range to do enough damage. You also have to consider our conditions. We are located in thick bush country and sometimes you have to get on your hands and knees to crawl in our Pine Plantations.

I just purchased one and it is a great gun for predators and long range shooting. I has no recoil and is the most accurate rifle in my safe. That said, out of over 20 deer killed with a 6.5, I have only seen a deer drop dead one time. All of the others the guides and I have had to spend hours tracking. We tracked the below deer for a mile and it was a perfect shot through vital organs. Second deer was a heart shot and he still ran almost 150 yards through thick bush and flooded timber.





On another note. Out of all of the animals I have hunted on this planet, the North American Whitetail seems to be able to withstand death longer than any other after a vital shot. I have tracked Bucks for over a mile after a clean shot through the heart with a 270. Their has to be some sore of science behind this. I guess thar our adrenaline would be the same if we only had sex for 15 days out of the year!

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated. If you think that I am wrong please tell me your experience.

Elmer might have been on to something.

Dave

I stand corrected. The below scenario would be an exceptional close range shot for the 6.5 Creedmoor!

You may need to look at your bullet selection Captain. I have witnessed many whitetails shot with the 6.5 Creed IE 260 Rem. We have shot them with 100Gr Partitions, 120gr B-Tips, 120gr TSX, 125gr Partitions, 130gr Sierra Game Kings, 130gr Accubonds, 130gr Sciroccos, and 1 with a 123gr A-Max. From 20 feet to 330 yards, if you add up all of the tracking we have not tracked a quarter mile. We have had some CNS hits, but most have been boiler rooms. I may be mixing a few Mule deer in this count for some of the bullets used, but if you double lung a whitey up close with any of the bullets listed above you should get shorter trails.

You may think differently after you have been tracking deer multiple times throughout the night until the early am. Caliber makes my job much more difficult!

Bullet? My 6.5x55 isn't all that much different than a CM and it cleanly kills mule and whitetail deer with 129 grain Hornady SSTs with minimal fuss. But those are pretty soft, relatively quickly expanding bullets that really mess up a deer's innards...

Having used the 120Gr TSX and TTSX in the 260 and 6.5-06 I can tell you I have had many dozen deer, antelope and one Desert Ram fold up on the spot. I have never had an animal go any distance further that 20 yards and at a drunken stagger not a sprint. It was if that bullet was made for those 6.5's. at those velocities. I have found only one TTSX that traveled the full length of a very large bodied Mule Deer my daughter shot and was found against the skin in the ham next to the anus. She hit head on where the neck and chest merge at just over 100 yards.

We have used them to 350 yards and to date have never had a problem. I think I'd keep the shots directed into the shoulders and limit the shots to not much than 300 Yards.

Capt,

That may be your experience but by logical extension that means the 260 Remington and 6.5x55 Swede also suck.

The 6.5 Creed, 260 Rem, and the 6.5 Swede all launch 130 & 140 grain bullets at ~2750 & ~2625 fps, respectively. Interestingly enough the 6.5 Creed is actually slightly slower in some manuals than the 260. The amount of variation that can occur between powder selection, factory ammo, barrel length, and individual barrel make these 3 cartridges ballistic replicas.

A 6.5mm diameter bullet of X weight launched at Y velocity is going to have the exact same effect on a game animals regardless of whether it came from a 260 Remington, 6.5 Swede, or 6.5 Creedmor.

I would look for another explanation.

my thoughts are that the bullet construction and velocity are not being matched up properly.

the creedmore is sucking because your using a 300 win mag bullet in a 30-30.
there is no balance between the permanent wound channel and penetration.

I can tell you that 143 grain Hornady SSTs from a Creedmoor going 2700FPS will make deer DRT from 50 to 350 yards.Of course that bullet in my Swede has the same effect.What bullet are you using??The 6.5 Creedmoor is not a screamer by any means unless you are using a varmint bullet.OB

I learn something new every day, today I learned the Creedmore is a better killer than the .270..

Therefore I must conclude that one must have an ice chest full of beer in ones deer stand. and apparently its empty!!

Good thing you're playing with modern guns and ammo, bullets and not the crap bullets we had back in the 50-60's era. Not five out of 100 gave the same results.

Get a variety of bullets, know which one's you're shooting and kill a few more of those deer and you'll find it's YOUR BULLETS, not the cartridge!

George

I am also curious as to what bullets you are using in the creedmoor. Lots and lots of deer killed with faster/smaller .243s and slightly larger diameter but same weights .270s, without the issues you are having.

I have a 6.5C, but have not taken any animals with it yet. It will be my antelope rifle for next fall with 130gr accubonds, everything else gets shot at with the 7RM.

This OP is the most illogical thing I have ever read, and that's all I am going to say.

Going over a mile with a clean shot through the heart thats when you lost me.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
I stand corrected. The below scenario would be an exceptional close range shot for the 6.5 Creedmoor!

Muslim deer

The "problem" you are having is NOT a product of the cartridge. After well over 100 kills with 6.5mm cartridges -- most of those coming with a 24" 6.5x30-30 AI (aka 6.5 Bullberry IMP) -- I can tell you that they work. Period.

You never mentioned the load you are using. Like with any other cartridge, you have to match the bullet to the velocity window you are working at and then put it where it belongs. Maybe those "perfect" shots really aren't so perfect if they go a mile. What do the wound channels look like? Can you post some photos?

No, the 6.5 bore diameter isn't magical, and yes, sometimes you may have to track a deer. But the 6.5CM is really no different than the 6.5x55 and .260, either...and those work like a charm for many, many hunters.

Clark: As others have said, it’s not the caliber that’s the problem, its the make and construction of the bullet. For instance, I have killed dozens of whitetails with 165 grain Sierra GameKings and they’re almost all DRT. On the other hand, I’ve shot whitetails with 168 grain Berger VLD bullets and had them blow up on shoulder bones with insufficient penetration. Without you specifying the make and model of the bullet, your criticism of the 6.5 isn’t warranted IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
I have had to spend hoursI have tracked Bucks for over a mile after a clean shot through the heart with a 270. Their has to be some sore of science behind this. I guess thar our adrenaline would be the same if we only had sex for 15 days out of the year!

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated. If you think that I am wrong please tell me your experience.

First, a WT shot “clean through the heart” could only make a mile if it fell on to a moving truck when it was shot.

I’ve had a few WT’s shot with Hornaday 120gr GMX 6.5 go further then I want. The furthest was about 125 yards in a cotton field at your farm. My mistake on that was thinking the deer went further then it did before it dropped and wasting time in the edge of the woods instead of looking in the cotton field.

My son shot a doe on your farm out of a stand in the woods with my 6.5 and 140gr Accubond which was DRT.

Between my son, my daughter and my self we’ve accounted for 24 WT’s. All 1 shot kills from 9 yards to a little over 300 yards. To reiterate, the furthest one ran before expiring was approximately 125 yards.

If you are having to track for miles that represents poor shot placement, not a poor rifle/cartridge/bullet performance.

I’ve had WT cull contracts and shot them with everything from .22LR to 12 bore rifle and have found that it makes no difference to the deer. If there is proper shot placement they die pretty easy. Poor placement and there is tracking to be done, regardless of cartridge.

As a side note I’ve witnessed a higher percentage of DRT shots on WT’s with a 6x45 useing 85gr Sierra Game Kings then anything else.
You’ve witnessed that once that I know of too.

I shot an impala, less than 50 yards away, with a 375/404 loaded with 300 grain Barnes X.

He was feeding towards us, head down.

Bullet entered at the front junction of the neck and shoulder, went completely along his body, and was found under the skin next to his tail.

At the shot, he flinched, arched his back a bit. Stood still for a while, turned around and walked a it. Lay down and like he was resting, a while later he laid his head down and died.

All this time we were wondering what had happened, and would have assumed a miss if we did not see the bullet hole in his neck shoulder junction.

Tree Um

Like I stated. I saw it drop a WT dead one time and that was when your son killed that doe at 75 yards at the swamp stand behind the lodge . I was in the stand with him and was amazed which was why I purchased the gun. I do not do a ton of commercial deer hunts but I would say that 75 percentof my deer clients are brining this rifle.
What kind of bullets where you guys using.


Remember. I am taking about close range shots less than 100 yards! Gun is epic for shot over 150 yards


I have been using Federal Power-Shok 140 Grain Soft Point. I have not personally shot a Wt with mine but will do this afternoon and post pict with report.

Shot my first deer with the Creedmoor yesterday morning. AFTER I read this thread. Nice 11 point.

He was quartering away hard at about sixty yards. DRT.

I love Berger VLDs! In behind the last rib, heart and lungs where gooey mush!

140g VLD at 2850 at the muzzle.

.

Bullets and placement are what makes the world go round

Headstamps don't mean shit

Clark, I always start my bullet search for all 6 of my various 6.5s with either the 120 Ballistic Tip or the 129 Hornady Interlock. It is very rare that either of those bullets will not perform as desired. I have also used the 125 Partition with great success. In my rifles, the Partition and Interlock both shoot to the same point of aim. I only have one rifle that likes 140 grain bullets and that is my 6.5x55 with a 1:9 twist Douglas barrel. Maybe try a lighter bullet.

I think ultimately, no matter what caliber or bullet you are using, if you destroy vital organs, the animal dies.

And unless you hit the CNS, each animal has his own time of how long it takes to expire.

I have seen things which were, frankly, very hard to believe.

Some animals seem to die from very marginal wounds.

Others seem to just keep going with injuries one would expect them not be able to walk a few steps.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Bullets and placement are what makes the world go round

Headstamps don't mean shit

Agreed, and to represent otherwise is laughable. I've only killed about 15 deer so far with my relatively "new to me" 6.5 CM, but craploads of hogs, which are tougher than any whitetail in existence. The Creed, with proper bullets put in the proper place is a deer killing machine.

Double Lung they run. High shoulder shot or a spine shot they drop. We use 120gr Barns TTSX.

Ive seen this with a .270 years ago. Short range shots.

I don't remember the specific bullet my friend bought for his new .270. The bullets' were going straight thru the rib cage and not expanding. Made for difficult follow up. He asked around and switched to a different bullet. Problem solved.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
I have tracked Bucks for over a mile after a clean shot through the heart with a 270.

Um....someone has lied to you about how long a mile is....or about what the heart is.

Couple of bucks this year with the 6.5 CM at ~ 125 yards. First was double lunged and went about 25 yards with a massive blood trail. Second was entry in front of left front shoulder, exited through right shoulder (small exit/shoulder wrecked), dropped at the shot....also shot a coyote on this hunt at fairly close range and it was a massive exit with immediate death. Bullet used on both of these was the 129 ABLR. Excellent performance from this bullet on both bone and lung at ~125 yards.

Exit from double lung/broadside shot:


Second with coyote:


Shot a couple of bucks last year with the 143 ELDx bullets. First was straight on shot at ~80 yards. Buck turned and walked away...then started trotting and I think I missed the first shot so I shoot again taking out mid-back and he rolled down the mountain out of sight. Follow up in ~15 minutes and a log stopped his roll....he's bedded staring at me from straight ahead. Shoot again from straight ahead at chest/neck juncture and he doesn't seem to react......I think my scope must be off. Watching I see his eyes look glassy, slowly his head starts to drop. When I walk up there are two holes in the front of the chest, one on each side. The buck lived around 15-20 minutes on one lung....without the quick follow up shot he could have gone a long way with no blood trail. I don't think the 143eldx expanded very well or did much damage. There was no blood from either of the entry holes on the two frontal chest shots (neither exited...in hindsight I'm very sorry I didn't dig through the gut pile to find those bullets).

Second last year was at last light while he was chasing a doe. First shot I didn't lead him enough on an frontal angled shot and hit one lung with an exit behind the ribs on the opposite side. Second shot I led him a bit much and hit the vertebrae right in front of the shoulder which dropped him. No blood from either exit wound...none at all.

Limited experience with this bullet but it took 5 shots to kill 2 deer (all shots either hit one lung or bone) with no blood from anything except where the buck rolled down the mountain when the spine was taken out. Dramatically different results from last year to this year but also dramatically different shot angles/placement. I do feel like the 143eldx has not expanded well in my use and that the 129 ABLR has.

Were I judging the 6.5CM on last years shot results I'd be hesitant to use it. Based on this years shot results there is nothing better. I've killed enough deer with .223's and .243's to know the .264 diameter isn't the problem. Not all bullets give the same results on game.

Second buck last year:

The closer you are the more violently the bullet will open up.

There is no way around this.

Saying a bullet does less damage up close is like saying say a car wreck will have less damage the higher the speed.

If your using a Barnes X or even a partition the close shots are most likely shedding the front half of the bullet and leaving a small exit.

Another scenario is the bullets are not opening in the first place. Dropping velocity will not help with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
Tree Um

Like I stated. I saw it drop a WT dead one time and that was when your son killed that doe at 75 yards at the swamp stand behind the lodge . I was in the stand with him and was amazed which was why I purchased the gun. I do not do a ton of commercial deer hunts but I would say that 75 percentof my deer clients are brining this rifle.
What kind of bullets where you guys using.


Remember. I am taking about close range shots less than 100 yards! Gun is epic for shot over 150 yards


I have been using Federal Power-Shok 140 Grain Soft Point. I have not personally shot a Wt with mine but will do this afternoon and post pict with report.

Clark,
The doe Thomas took with you behind the lodge was with his 6x45 AKA 6mm-223 useing Sierra Game King bullets.

The doe Thomas took with me in the timber was with my 6.5CM using Winchester 140gr Nosler Accubond LR. It too was DRT but sustained massive meat loss. That deer was shot at less then 10 yards. All the deer we’ve shot with that Ammo have died quick but have a halo around the circumference of the torso of bloodshot meat. However, no tracking has been required with that load.

I’m itchin to try Remington Corelockt 6.5 ammo on WT. If it lives up to what I’ve found from their .270, .308 & 30/06 loads, it’ll be a winner.

145 yards with the federal power shock soft point. Buck dropped dead. Other loads that I ordered should arrive today.

Pictured is my youngest Sam who is 3 and my nephew who is 6. Not quite sure what kind of rounds they were using in those guns but they each shot several times!

Congrats to you both. That's a great buck, and a great pic. Thanks for sharing.

Hard to be a Nosler partition for whitetails. Front 1/2 grenades inside the animal and the rear blows through.
I agree with the post above about the high shoulder shot. Seems to be magic.
Try a 130 Nosler partition at +3200 FPS (RL-22) out of a 270 Win. for whitetails. Flat shooting, recoil not heavy and will shoot through any whitetail.
Petty hard to beat and been around forever.

Sam looks like a mini version of you.

Nice deer

I'm with you, Captain. I lived in NC four different times for a total of ten years and I spent many long, extended periods living in and moving through eastern NC woods and swamps. I know the conditions you speak of. We also have some similar thick, deep woods here in Western WA, thickets and thorns included. In brambles, I've walked within twenty feet of a downed deer without seeing it.

My personal opinion is that some calibers just aren't all they're made out to be for close woods hunting. Based on my personal experience, I no longer hunt deer or deer sized game with anything smaller than a 7mm. My worst experiences were with the .22-250 and .243 Winchester. I cannot offer an opinion on .270 because I never took one hunting. But I can say with certainty that a 7x57, 7x64, and 7x65R loaded with the right bullets will perform wonderfully within 100 yards, as will any .30 caliber. The .358 Winchester is superb in those conditions, as is the .45-70. My favorites are my .411 caliber wildcat and the 12 bore Paradox - no explanations should be needed.

It's always interesting to talk about controlled bullet expansion, temporary wound cavities, and hydrostatic shock. Such things do have their place. But for close range hunting I'd rather be shooting something that begins with a diameter as big or bigger than a perfectly mushroomed .224, .243, or .264 caliber bullet and can only get bigger on impact. A big, slow moving bullet with lots of momentum wreaks havoc on vitals and makes a good sized exit hole.

308 gentlemen

Clark:

As you well know, tracking in the NC swamps is challenging even for a short distance, especially in fading light. Years ago, I hunted the swamps around Ft Bragg quite a bit. I did most of my hunting with a 45-70 to ensure a good blood trail. I also shot everything through the shoulders. I am no fan of small calibers or small bullets, but in my experience, with the right bullet they are generally DRT killers under the right conditions. Sometimes providing more impressive results than big bores. Having hunted with you I know you are not a BS'er. I question bullet selection/performance in the scenario you are describing. Often people shoot target bullets in their newest laser cartridge believing they need that for best accuracy. Those bullets are crap for killing.


Of course you can always just have me come up and bring the double rifle.....

Safe hunting...……...Larry

The South Carolina DNR study has alot to say about distance traveled as a function of placement. The study concludes caliber does not matter, but the data shows an unmistakable trend toward shorter distances traveled with increasing bullet diameter. Another classic example of data supporting different conclusions.

Killing and retrieving are different things. The thickness of cover surrounding us led to a decision not to use .243" or lower. I have plenty of experience with .224" bullets, and know perfectly well they will kill. Also know there will not be much/any blood trail and that travel distances (IME) are greater.

IMO, the perceived "toughness" of whitetails has everything to do with their "twitchiness", amplified during peak rut. For several reasons, our best chances here are during peak rut.....not pre-rut, not post-rut, when animals have settled down.

Last three bucks I've shot were hit back of where I wanted. Maybe I'm cursed, but all three were doing the abrupt, unpredictable, stop/start thing they do. Trigger pressure goes past inevitability. On the close big guy this resulted in maybe 1/2" error. On the last at 150 yds I ended up just behind the ribcage. Knew it, instantly. Light was failing and by the time 15" wait had elapsed I was in trouble. Blood trail (dark) went non-existent beyond about 10 yds. Tried increasing circles looking for direction. Got a rough idea, then decided AM would be best.

Then it snowed before light, about 2-3" by the time I got out. Spent 2 hrs working terrain in disciplined grid fashion. No dice. Remember, I live here, this is my property.

The SCDNR study refers to dog retrieval. But use of dogs is illegal, or legal only under specific circumstances/licenses/leashes/etc, in many states.

So I went back to the house, ditched the firearm/gear, and took my labs for their daily walk.....on land we own.....as we do every day. By happenstance and coincidence we just happened to approach the area where I'd connected. The dogs went nuts and in about 5 seconds covered 100 yds sorta uphill in a bee-line to the carcass.

Walked dogs back, got tractor, happy outcome.

Are deer tougher to kill? No. Are they sometimes tougher to hit solid? Yes.

BTW, this was my first kill with the .375 Ruger GG.