[Moderators: You may move this post to a more approriate topic area if necessary. I didn't know where to put it! Sorry]

I was looking at binoculars and came across this.

What is the meaning behind this preface given on Swarovski's website?

Why isn't there a preface for the bird watchers?

First here, then click on the hunting site:

Swarovski

How do you feel about the comments:

"It is sometimes imperative in today�s cultural landscape to harvest game animals to keep them in balance with available habitat."

Nice thought, but I don't hunt animals just because they're running out of room around city limits.

How about THIS one...

"High quality products make it possible for responsible marksmen to identify the game in order that these can be targeted and culled as cleanly as possible."

Question: Is "targeting and culling" synomymous with hunting?

I hunt because I love to the challenge of pursuing animals on fair chase hunts. Swarovski makes it sound as if they are marketing towards game keepers working in a game management area or zoo.

It's not a huge deal, but it does bother me that people who manufacture equipment for hunters (ie swarovski's scopes) have to take such a politally correct/vegetarian approach to hunting.

If the big manuafacturers with all the big lobbying power aren't behind us 100%, then who is?

What do you think?

I'm a big fan of Swarovski products, but I felt more than a little insulted by the message. They have a big decorative crystal business that dwarfs their riflescope business. I'm sure they're trying to cater to the sensitivities of their crystal customers. This assessment doesn't make me like it though.

Notice how if you go to swarovski.com how hard it is to get to the riflescope section?

It could also have something to do with them being a European company, and perhaps some culling is necessary in their neck of the woods..

[ 07-04-2002, 02:50: Message edited by: Gatehouse ]

Gatehouse hit the nail on the head.....
It is a very European perspective. It is a way of showing respect for what we do. Swarovski UK support the British stalking scene more than any other rifle/optic company I am aware of.
Right now they are offering a Swarovski draw scope and an all expenses paid hunt for Red stags of the hill as a prize in for a competion in The Shooting Times......they also offer Swarovski optics as prizes for certain shooting events and generally back this effort with excellant service!
The head of Swarovski UK is also a very serious stalker himself, which is great for us who use his products.....

[ 07-04-2002, 03:28: Message edited by: Pete E ]

Thanks Pete. I am glad to hear it. Swarovski has been getting a pretty bad rap lately about catering to bird watchers. Didn't want to feel guilty about my EL's you know!

Canuck

Pete said it but then he minced his words. Truth is much harder. Hunting is no longer accepted as a "hobby" by the European public opinion. Whether you -or I- like it or not doesn't matter, laws are being voted by politicians who only care about retaining their position, being themselves elected by people who understand little and only react according to their emotions (NB. : for some, this means TV). The "killing" of wildlife is only accepted as a means to regulate animal populations in balance with the available habitat, food supply and/or acceptable crop damage (they call it "game management"). And it makes it difficult to become a hunter on these shores. First, you need education in terms of biology, forestry, animal diseases, anatomy, laws, firearms, etc., so that you can pose as a "wildlife expert" vis-�-vis the (much) too many encounters with "nature lovers" roaming the woods, hanging to their blasting transistor radios and who are shocked to run into a "man with a gun"� So, after going to (paying) hunter's school (they don't have it yet in U.K., lucky them� for that matter, at least), sitting in class for 60 hours theory, before taking up field training, one has to pass the yearly official exams (30% candidates succeed�). Holding the holy (and expensive) paper, he then goes about renting a hunting lease (the sky's the limit as to cost). And finally, the new, highly trained, hunter, oops sorry, read : "game management expert" is free to pursue his quarry, of course within the bounds of a legal shooting plan, taking into account the numbers of old, young, female & male creatures that have to be humanely "harvested" within a given period. One overkill will bring him to court, one head less than imposed will get him fined. In the end, this could still be relaxing if it wasn't for the permanent spying (and harassment) of the anti's, waiting for a breach they could report (�and publish). I sometimes dream about the latter being obliged to follow the same education course as described above before being allowed a "anti-hunting license". Not that it would directly promote hunting but, at least, it would even out the numbers of opponent parties. Don't shrug too fast, U.S. friends, because if, usually, what happens first in the States comes over to Europe later, it may well travel the other way around in this matter, signs already showing up now and then, watch out�

PS. : I confirm that Gerhard Swarovski is an avid hunter himself. In '99, I had the pleasure to be invited to tour (not hunt, mind you) the Swarovski hunting grounds in Absam / Austria. For the occasion, I borrowed the then new to be introduced EL binos and fell enamoured with them after watching the many Chamois of that part of the Austrian Alps.

[ 07-04-2002, 15:38: Message edited by: Andr� Mertens ]

As Andre hinted stalking in the UK has a lot less red tape associated with it-for now....We have no compulsory tests and in most cases cull plans ect are decided by the owner of the stalking rights; the exception to that is in certain parts of Scotland, the Deer Commission is involved with the Red deer cull. As far as I know, they tend to set minimum culls as they are striving to get Red deer numbers down.

I think our model for stalking is different to the American model in a number of ways. From what I understand, the Individual State Wildlife Agencies set culls ect and effect them by issuing tags to hunters.

In the UK, stalkers set the cull, so there is an emphasis on an "ethical" approach to prevent individuals exploiting things to the detriment of the deer herd. For instance, with a wide ranging Fallow herd, it would only take one unscrupulous stalker to target the all mature bucks as they cross his land to completely upset the structure of the herd and destroy the deer management policies of several nearby Estates. Hence there is a big push for voluntary training to give people knowledge so they can do more than merely pull the trigger.

Right now we have the balance about right and I would hate to see us go the way of our European cousins and take the red tape to excess...

Don't forget that even the best translation is unlikely to get all the nuances exactly right.

It's called marketing 101 - Don't piss the customer off.

Since Swarovski is targeting both conservationists, naturalists, and hunters alike, they must straddle a difficult fence. In order to survive in today�s international business marketplace, you must take political correctness to a new level. Personally, I think they have done a very good job appealing to a diverse market.

They removed it.

Swarovski Optics are second to no one.
Swarovski customer service in the United States is second to no one. I am a hunter, and Swarovski Customer Service has treated me like a King, knowing that I hunt. They went WAY beyond the business as usual crowd to accommodate my desire to buy a rifle scope not sold in the US. I now own that scope, which was special ordered and brought to the States just for me. I don't ignore that kind of excellent service. I'll be buying more Swarovski optics as a result.

Don

DMB, wait until it malfunctions, then you will see their customer service head on. Real customer service = Leupold.

Besides that...they don't mince words on hunting and their products. Thats what they do and they are proud to say so!

Hi
I think that swarovski optics are the best but it does worry me that they do not give as much credic to hunting/shooting as they do to other users of they products. I heard off a guy who went to the factory that all the rifles scopes and anything that related to hunting was hidden away from the public eye.

They are among the top 3 rifle scope producers in the world and among the top 3 binocular and spotting scope producers in the world.

They also have a very large line of crystal ornaments, jewlery and assorted etc. I think they do a good job of not killing off any part of their other businesses with bad press relations.

Not very many other companies have two such varied product lines. LL Bean is one of the few that I can think of. Frankonia in Germany sells high end clothing and has a hunting store. They don't camoflauge the hunting store as much as LL Beans does.

If your trying to have other markets and you want to continue to have both hunting and non-hunting products it is wise to not shit where you eat.

Swarovski does a pretty good job of that.

Schmidt and Bender is totally a hunting and military sales company, so is Trijicon, and Aimpoint. So they don't have to pussy foot around with their product lines.

Swarovski, Zeiss, Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, Leica, and several others are both hunting companies and have non-hunting products.

You can't open a Swastika factory in Israel, and you can't sell sell trophy wives $8500 crystal rhinos if you have a photo of a dead rhino and some nimrod next to it in the same store.

I have only been to one Swarovski store that sold Swarovski optics. I think they are trying to ensure that non-hunters don't confuse the brands.

I tend to spend about 94% of my awake life thinking about hunting, but I also understand that only about 4 or 5 million people on this planet are the same.

No one in their right mind would shut down a production line of non-hunting items if it was a huge money maker. And to sour the grapes of those non-hunting customers would be equally stupid.

D99,

Most excellent assessment.
You have your heard screwed on right. Great perspective.

Don

quote:

Is "targeting and culling" synomymous with hunting?

Yes.

This article about hunting and the perspectives of American and European hunters is a good read and may describe the language and ideas you have been discussing.

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2003/HuntingGermany.htm


HTH,
Dave

The approach to continuing hunting traditions in countries like Germany, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands, is to stress the "management" aspect of things. Manage numbers to reduce the pressure on habitat, agriculture, forestry, and reduce the chance of outbreaks of disease, etc. The verbage quoted likely should be read in that context.

Frans (love my Swarovski binoculars)