I was out last night (2 hours before dusk) hoping to kill a doe (whitetail). Since my accident (getting run over by a tri-axle dump truck in 1973) I have been shaking more and more every year. I am forced to hunt using a bench, front rest and rear bag to set my rifle on. My bench is somewhat portable. I set up along the edge of a treeline last night, watching over a field where deer are known to come out on a regular basis. The terrain goes up and down ever so slightly. As I was sitting, watching for deer to come out of the woods I noticed something brown moving. I could barely make it out since it was in a slight dip from my position. I slowly stood up and could see all of the deer above its knees. I lasered the distance to be 250 yards. I crouched down, rifle in hand, moved back into the woods so the deer wouldn't see me. There were 2 doe and a small buck feeding in the field. I leaned against a tree, trying to steady myself to take a clean shot at one of the 2 doe. There was no wind at all, it was dead calm. As I stood there, leaning against the tree I could not steady myself enough to make a clean shot. I lowered the rifle and watched for about 30 minutes hoping the deer would move to higher ground where I could use my bench. It didn't happen.

I am a medium long range hunter - sometimes.

Last night I had 2 doe 250 yards away and conditions were such that I couldn't shoot in good faith, so I didn't.

I had my 7mm mag with me last night and I have it worked out to 400 yards, shooting off my bench.

Tonight I will set-up in a different place on that same field hoping the deer come out again.

I wrote this to explain that sometimes even 250 yards is to far to shoot. It was for me, last night.

Every hunter should know their limitations.

Don

Great point you make Don.

A person should know their limitations for sure. (I have plenty of em.)

Don, my hat is off to you.

Good for you Don. Good for you.

(Now here is a post from a rifleman that I can look up to)

I have to change the title now.

Groove Bullets 0, Deer 2

I did change locations for a better angle on the deer and had a real exciting night. I had this little 6 point (3X3) come out about 15 minutes after I set up. I watched him "pig out" for the better part of 30 minutes. He walked directly towards me to within 30 yards and never knew I was there. He then walked into the woods not 50 feet to my left. What really helped me was the fact that it started to rain when he was about 80 yards away and the noise helped him not hearing me.

I quit right at quitting time, unloaded my rifle and started walking out. I got almost to my vehicle when I took one last look to see if any other deer came out. I watched 3 nice bucks walk out so I leaned my rifle against a tree (unloaded) and walked to the edge of the woods to watch them. I could see there was a 10, 9 and an 8 point all eating away. We don't have a lot of large racks around here. That 10 point sure got the blood going. I would guess him in the 130 B&C range. More then likely he will get poached long before our rifle season in December. They were about 150 yards away and never paid any attention to me.

Maybe tomorrow night a Doe will come out.

Don

the only thing an honest man has is his honor

nice job!!!!

never poach ever,(unless your family is starving to death)

Hey Don,

Great posts.....maybe the most refreshing posts I have read in a long time!

I know you will get them!!

Good Hunting,

Bob

Don,

Would two Harris type bipods help make a portable shooting rest? Put the second one on the rear of the stock! The longest Harris pod is better than the old ones as it has three sections to each leg and therefore has a high and low sitting height for up or down hill aiming.

High scope mounts will enable one to shoot without touching the cheekpiece.

A trigger can be fired without holding the pistol grip by squeezing it with the thumb and forefinger against the rear of the trigger guard.

Savage99,

I never thought about using 2 bi-pods before. I will have to give that a try. Thanks for the tip.

My hands and head shake a lot. I am sure we have all seen some really old person with their head shaking and hands, well, thats how I am 24/7.

I tried shooting as you described off a bench. The rifle sitting on a front rest and rear bag, my cheek not on the stock and touching off the trigger. Because my head shakes as much as my hands it is difficult at best for me to see through the scope. I grip the stock with my right hand (I am right handed) with more force and force my cheek into the stock (shooting off a bench) to help steady myself. We all do what we have to so we can hunt. Mine is probably a lot different then most. I tell people all the time, I am probably the worst shot with a rifle that you will ever see. I just "invent" ways that work for me even though to most "my methods" look funny as all get out. I have had people that have asked: Why are you doing that? lol

I pass a lot of shots simply because I want to "anchor" the animal and not have it run off into some really thick stuff and have to go in there and try to find it.

I will definately try the 2 bi-pod method. Thanks again for the tip.

Don

Some of my most rewarding hunting experiences are very similar to yours. You see that deer or elk of a lifetime BUT you REALLY do not have a good shot.......so you PASS on it.
I feel that those shots NOT taken can be more of a personal accomplishment, than the 400 yd shot you make, right on the money, as planned, with your four hunting buddies as witnesses.

A few years ago I passed up a shot on what was probably one of the top two or three whitetail bucks I have ever seen, much less had an opportunity to shoot. It was under 200 yds, he offered a dicey angle shot but I was just too out of breath and shaky, so I passed and never saw him again. I often think about that situation but can hold my head high as I did the right thing.

Good Posts, I enjoy them.

FN in MT

Don
Just a off-the-wall suggestion, any good camera store sells a "remote shutter cable" that could be threaded into the front of the trigger guard with the "actuater" aganst the trigger. The part that you hold has finger grips and a thumb button to trip the shutter (trigger).
It wouldn't help with the sighting issue, but it could help damp out the hand shake issue.

What whitetailed deer season is now open in PA?

One of those red-tagged crop damage farms where only antlerless deer are allowed to be harvested?

Tailgunner,

Sounds like a good idea. Only one thing I see about it. I am pig headed about some things, ok, a lot of things, lol. Personally I would feel like I am cheating if I used a cable to squeeze the trigger. In a few years that may change since I shake more and more every year. I will keep that idea in mind. Thanks for the idea.

Don

Onefunzr2,

You sir are correct. I was hunting a "red tag" farm and the tag was for an anterless deer.

I say was because I managed to kill an anterless deer at 6:30pm this evening. I guess 3rd time was the charm.

I had my bench set-up at the same location I was last night. It was a 250 yard shot and because I used my bench I was able to get steady and make the clean kill. Had I been standing, I would of never shot.

I killed it using 127gr EXP Groove Bullet out of my 7mm mag.

Due to our busy lives I hadn't skinned and butchered a deer in about 20 years. It felt kind of good to skin and butcher a deer.

I now have the meat in the freezer ready to be turned into jerky.

Don

Congrats on the deer Don!

Oh, the reason it is so hard to shoot Pennsylvania deer at long range is that they are so darn small to begin with! <G>

Mark

Hey Don,

Congrats.......I knew you would have venison on the grill before long!!

Bob

Don, any details about bullet performance on this hunt that you could share with us? Thanks

Congrats!

Mark,

Actually it was a small deer

I have been fortunate to have hunted in various places around the state. I used to hunt McKean county back in the 60's and 70's since we had a camp not to far from Kane. If anybody killed a deer, back then, that went over 120lbs it was a monster. I hunted just east of Marienville for 9 years out of a buddies camp. Again, small deer. Where I now hunt and have for the last 20 years or so is all farm country. A couple of years ago I killed a mature doe that field dressed 156 pounds - not exactly little for a doe. My buck dressed out at 178lbs. We don't have deer like Alberta but they are decent size.

Bob,

Thanks, appreciate it

JJWEN,

The deer was quartering away from me. I aimed for the offside shoulder but I pulled the shot slightly back, The exit hole was about 2" behind the right front leg. The entrance hole was caliber size and the exit hole was about 1 1/2" wide X 2" high. The bullet hit a rib on the way out so the exit hole was ragged. At the shot the deer dissappeared into the woods. When I recovered from the recoil there was no deer in sight. When a buddy and myself walked over to where I hit the deer we walked into the woods to see a real strong blood trail. The woods are real wet, water everywhere, and leaves from last fall.
We tracked the deer 60 yards into the woods. It was easy to find even through all the water because of all the blood. I was amazed that it even went 60 yards.

Had I been using a bullet that doesn't penetrate as well, not providing an exit hole, I may of never found the deer and that bothers me. Based on our penetration testing I wasn't at all concerned that the bullet wasn't going to exit.

Don

Congrats on the deer Don!

Now it's time to move on to the next farm and help prevent his crop damage. And then the next, and the next and the next.

That was a quick butcher job. I'll bet the meat was still steaming as you ran it through the grinder.

Don,

You do not need two bipods to have a mobile, steady, shooting rest.

Use one bipod in front and on the rear sling stud mount a Muleypod. It is a well-made, adjustable, aluminum leg that, in use with a bipod, gives you a tripod --a very steady base. They fold out of the way when not in use too.

I bought one at the Harrisburg Outdooors Show this year and they are being advertised now in some gun mags.

There is a short size for prone shooting and a slightly longer one that fits into the crease where you upper leg joins your trunk in a sitting position. I think that there is a web site, check it out. Hope it works for you.

Regards,
1B

Don, I like your approach. These forums are filled with folks who can kill cape buffalo with a 22 hornet and who never mess up a shot. It's nice to meet a fellow human who, like myself, is not perfect and biffs a shot from time to time.

Keep at it!

onefunzr,

After dragging the deer to the truck and driving home it was still warm. Then again, it was warm outside - around 60 degrees. I wanted to get it butchered up as fast as possible to not ruin any meat. It was dropped around 6:30 and by 9:30 it was in the freezer. I didn't grind it up. I boned it to make jerky out of it.

Don

1B,

Thanks for the information. I didn't make it down this year to the Harrisburg but hope to make it next year.

Which reminds me I have to get in touch with the people that run that show to see about getting a booth for the 2005 show.

Thanks again for the info.

Don

500grains,

I have found it a lot easier to miss then to hit. As a buds Father always says: There is a lot of area round those deer - he is now 87.

I was out last summer, one day, with some buddys and I hit about 15 to 20 woodchucks that day from 100 yards to 675 yards. I surely didn't hit on every shot I took. I shot about 30 times. Some misses were not knowing the exact distance since the ground we hunted is so flat. It isn't always easy to obtain an accurate distance using lasers on flat ground. And, some I just plain missed.

The hunter that never misses doesn't hunt much. Been my experience anyhow.

Have a good one,

Don