When I brought my deer home last week, my 2 1/2 yr old daughter just "had to see it". She sees deer on TV running, etc. and she knew that this dead critter in the back of an SUV was a deer. She thought it was really neat. She also seemed to know that it was a deer that my wife and I were cutting up in the kitchen a few days later, and didn't seem to mind. Granted, she's only 2 1/2.......

My question to you folks is, When did you introduce your kids to the presence of dead critters, etc.? I'd like the benefit of experience from you who have older kids than mine.

Thanks

Since I have mounted heads in the living room, and we eat more elk than beef or chicken, my 4-year old has known all along. Once, when he was 2, he asked if Bambi's dad was like what we eat. I told him yes, and he just said, "Okay."

Cengel,

My kids are 23 and 21 and were brought up around hunting. My son hunted early on but never could get interested in big game, with the exception of moose. He still enjoys shooting and encourages others to pursue their hunting interests. My daughter has never been into the killing of any animals,............until now. She and I are in the planning stages of her first caribou hunt for next season. She is learning to shoot and is doing very well. I might add, it was her idea to do this. I never suggested she do it, I just exposed her to the "whole" hunting experience thing, and that the actual kill was a small part of the "whole" experience. I think that if you expose the kids to the "dead animal" part of hunting in a positive manner, they will develop their own opinions in spite of all the misinformation being fed to them by people they should be able to trust. Keep it up, you're doing fine.

Joe

my parents always let me watch the nature shows where the animals would hunt, kill, and eat each other. i guess that was their way of taking the edge off things.

[ 12-13-2002, 01:18: Message edited by: Curtis_Lemay ]

I've gone through two sons and a daughter, now 3 grandsons and a grand daughter, and not one of them has ever had a problem with even watching me gut a deer....My 8 year old grandaughter told Memaw (my wife)" Memaw, you better go over there, you might not want to watch papa and me gut this booger bear" she is a little beauty and not the least squemish...

My grandson on his first exposure to me gutting a deer at about 6 asked Memaw what are those worm like things (guts)...She explained what they were and that we had them too....He just shrugged and said, "boy, I'm sure glad we got skin", He can gut a deer at 11 years old by himself...

Truth is, it probably bothers more parents than kids, who deal with the world in a much more practical way than adults, they see things as they really are.

Hunt with them and they grow up stable, sound of mind, no hangups...I have never had a minutes trouble out of my kids and they have lived normal lives, have done well and they all hunt...no criminals, no dope, just good clean living.

And that is my greatest trophy...

I know the way I was raised, and I don't remember the first dead critter I saw. I had five older brothers and lived on a farm, so hunting and slaughtering livestock was just the way it was. My concern is whether I can, for lack of a better term, "get to them before the rest of the world does", and do it in a positive manner. That's not a problem my parents faced of near the magnitude that I and my wife do.

I haven't let my kids see "Bambi" yet. I remember seeing it when I was a kid, and my Pop asked if I liked it. "Yeah," says I. "Well, it was total Bullshit", says the wise one. "Remeber that".. I haven't forgotten, you'll note..

I let them watch "Lion King", with the whole "Circle of Life" thing...

Thanks all for your input...

My boys, grown now,from the time they were old enough to be of any help were around that kind of thing. I would guess about 4 or 5 years old. Never seemed to bother them at all.

I grew up on a farm so my first exposser was killing chickens. That was brutal, at first I didn't know why they were running all over like crazy with no heads then when my granddad explained it to me I thought it was funny. I can also remember my Dad and his friends bringing home deer when I was very young and I used to watch out the window. He also took me hunting at a very young age and I loved to go along with him on the trips. But the thing that maybe taught me the most was fishing. I was taught that if I killed it I had to clean it and look after it and not waste anything that could be used.

I have older girls, too, and they were exposed to hunting at about the age of 7 or 8. When we would gut a wild hog, they would watch. Candi wanted to be a doctor and would pick through the entrails, telling us what each thing was. She's still in college.

At family birthday parties, they would always ask if "regular" food was being served or game.

This year I was headed back into town with my deer and was going past my mom's house where my wife and step-daughter were. I called and asked if they wanted to see my buck. Jennifer said sure and so I stopped. Cori, who's three, touched the deer and looked at it (it was gutted) and didn't seem bothered at all.

Occasionally we'll watch hunting programs together. She saw a dog returning with a dead duck in its mouth. Cori asked if it was dead. We said yes and she went back to playing.

Her mom said that after she watched a neighbor's dog kill a cottontail at 1.5, she hasn't been bothered at all.

I went on my first dove hunt with my dad when I was around 6. Since I got to go, I also got to help them clean the dove.

Here is a story related to my wife very recently.

One of her friends was traveling to visit her family in Oklahoma. Driving into the neighborhood there was a man skinning a doe in the tree in his front yard (this is Oklahoma guys, remember!)

Anyway the lady took one of her children over to the deer to let him see what the man was doing. He was sort of shocked and shy at first and wanted to know all about it.

"Why is he doing that to that deer?"
"He is skinnig it so they can eat it."
"But why?" he said obviously a little put off by the sight.
"This is where meat comes from."
Shocked and a little scared of the answer to his next question, he asked "Well, mommy, then where do doughnuts come from."

I've got no kids, but I remember cleaning fish and birds when I was really young..my mom would cook it, but there was NO WAY she was going to clean it. I learned to fillet a salmon properly pretty quicly.

I remember a bit of squeamishness on my part, but it was always tempered with what I was doing was "pretty neat"

If parents make a big deal out of it, kids wil make a big deal out of it. So don't make a big deal about it, and they'll never know you're supposed to be "grossed out."

As early as I can remember as a child my folks always processed our own meat, be it a hog, cow, deer or poultry. If you wanted to eat, you helped. Thats just how it was.
Both my boys have helped with processing since they were old enough to stand.
Now my grandchildren help and they really like it, especially feeding the meat grinder(watched very closely). They think that is the neatest thing since sliced bread.

When I was growing up my father's taxidermy business was out in the garage attached to the house so we were all (my siblings) exposed to it from our beginning. I used to sneek out there with my pellet gun and go hunting my father's clients trophy's.....till I got caught.

Both of my brothers are avid hunters as well. My sister, the youngest is not nor is her hubby but they both are pro-hunting. Of course there are not to many in Mt. that are not but that is changing My father exposed us to hunting by the time we were 4-5 years old. Rabbits etc.... with pellet guns then .22's. Most of my friends that hunt were raised around hunting as well and the pursuit of game is engrained.

My children were raised with hunting from thier beginning as well and they always love to hunt fish, help skin etc.....

Cengal, My point is that I believe that the earlier you expose kids to hunting and fishing the better. They need to see the blood and guts and where meat comes from early because from my observations of being around other families that have not exposed thier children, for whatever reason, tends to produce negative statements from kids, in particular girls. And that is BAD!
Like "oh thats gross" "yuk that really smells"
or "why did you kill it" etc...... This seems to start in kids that are trained that "hunting is bad" or in kids that are allowed to develope thier own pre-concieved notions from the Disney BS or the like. Seems to start around 6-8 years of age and the longer that goes on the less chance we all have that that person will change thier mind.

Here in Butte where I live there are lots of kids that are not exposed to hunting or fishing so I try to do several field trips for kids from the local area and invite them over to our shop which is a taxidermy/booking business in one building. I take them into my office and demonstrate how taxidermy is done from beginning to end, answer all the questions,( and are there ever some interesting ones, Like "Is that a real eye"? or "Where do thier brains go"? or "How do they poop"? or "I still don't understand. Why did you kill it"? I told her,"Honey, I won't be happy till thier all dead" Just Kidding) then march them out into the shop itself and let them absorb it. They get to touch and feel smell and see everything. Then I take them back in the office and take a picture of each and everyone of them by a huge lifesize Brown bear and give them scraps of zebra hide or something like that to bring home as a gift. I get alot of satisfaction from it and I know I'm making some sort of contribution toward molding thier ideas toward our cherished way of life. Start them young!!

When I was about 5, and when my father came back home with a roe deer, my mother used to do everything in her power to prevent me from seeing the CADAVER. Sometimes accidentally it occurred, and I cried and called my father assassin and things like that. Later he explained that he killed only the bad ones, the ugly deers and ugly rabbits beating the others.
Now I won't have a rest 'til I have put down at least one specimen of each game species on earth. But only the bad ones .

It's unanimous, I see... Good to know I'm doing it right..

My girls are 2 1/2 and 1 1/2, and I thought it best to expose them early, but I think everybody needs a little confirmation from time to time.... Thanks everyone..

I can't remember how old my kids were when I first took them chuckar hunting, but they must've been no more than 4 and 5 at the time. Everything was going swimmingly, until a cotton tail "presented itself".

That took a little time to digest, as they both "raised" rabbits at the time.

The got over it when they saw at dinner that hasenpfeffer was great-grandfather's favorite. Next thing, they wanted to go hunt some more rabbits, just so they could see him that pleased with them, again.

Since, they have seen (and helped clean) dead moose, deer, and various and assorted birds. Doesn't matter to them. They eat them all. FWIW, Dutch.

We used to run a game processing plant, so my kids were around dead critters from birth. Doesn't seem to have warped them too badly.

Talking about butchering chickens, though....
I have never been quite the same since our clan's chicken butchering bloodbaths when I was just a tyke ;-).
I still have vivid memories of my uncles & aunts tying a bunch of chickens by their feet to a snow fence, and then my Dad would go down the line & brain them. Had a little stilletto type knife (which I still have) which he'd insert in their beak into their brain. Do it just right and the bird not only sheds this mortal coil but its feathers come off easier too.

And then, off with their heads. Nothing quite like the sight of 25 or so chickens tied on a snow fence, beheaded and flopping like mad with blood and feathers flying everywhere. It was like something out of Hitchcock ;-). And then they'd dip 'em in hot water, the womenfolk would pluck 'em (OK, the guys,too, my clan were ahead of the deal on this Title 9 stuff or whatever it is).

I've smelled some nasty stuff, but I still think gutting poultry takes the cake. No wonder I still have this unnatural hatred of chickens. Well, that and those miserably mean Bantam hens that nested in our barn loft. It was black as Ebenezer Scrooge's heart up there, & me and friends would be crawling around up there playing pirate or something, and you'd get to close to one of these renegade hen's nest, and they'd attack.

And then there were the geese.

That kind of thing still goes on, you know. Last summer I was chowing down on a delicious backpack meal way up in the middle of frickin' nowhere, and being a compulsive reader was looking over the ingredient list. Right at the top was "mechanically separated chicken". And inexplicably, several items further down the list was just plain "chicken".

It compromised my experience severely ;-).

Similar to most, I live on a ranch, and my kids ages 3, 7, and nearly 9 are used to dead critters hanging around or being in the kitchen(smaller ones)to be processed.

It has been my experience that younger kids don't have much of a problem with dead animals at all, if they understand there is a purpose to it. Like most people, some are more sensitive to it than others. Now, I've had some adults that would nearly throw up just looking at a hanging doe. Since it was my place, they had a choice, get over it or leave.

Walt Disney and Bambi can go screw themselves.

Gatehouse hit the nail on the head. Don't make a big deal out of it. Be matter-of-fact and show then what you're doing and tell them why. If they see it doesn't bother you, it won't bother them.

The most inportant thing is how you (the parent) act when exposing a youngn' to dead animals. My son has seen loads of dead critters that the cat drops off at the doorstep and believe it or not this was good for conditioning him. I just told him what they were and the "how and why" of it and even handleing the small carcusses didn't faze him. Yet the other day I had a dead snowshoe hare laying on the wood pile and my mother in law made a big deal out of it and before she was done she had my boy in tears. If you make them think it's wrong it will bother them. Just keep the Mother-in-laws away!

Wendell,

I want to know what her answer was.

I had a buddy of mine's buck on my hitch haul on my Jeep.My 3 year old daughter wanted to see it.So I took her out she walked up to it,patted it on the head.Then she grabbed it by the back leg,pulled her hand back and said,I got blood on my hand.Wiped it off on her pant's.And said nice buck daddy...............Think she might just be a hunter...

Good question. Good answers. I've raised a couple of kids of my own and pretty well concluded the best way to SCREW KIDS UP is to lie to them. Kids are tough as iron and bounce back like a rubber ball from most of life's hurts. And the truth seldom hurts. There's a lot of things in life kids need to know the truth about. Any hunter would be a fool to try and shade this any other way.

[ 12-14-2002, 08:35: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

My kids (2 and 4) know where meat comes from. I wouldn't want them thinking I kill all of those animals just to put their heads on the wall. Everytime I get home from hunting with my cameraman, they want to see the kill shot footage. When they see a pig hit the ground, they squeel with delight, rub their bellys, and say "Yum. Pork Chops".

Last night we were eating venison from a buck they saw me shoot a few days before and tehy were excited about it. If the hunt isn't filmed and they don't get to see the kill shots, they are actually disappointed. They know that all the pretty cows we see on the side of the road are hamburgers and tacos, and that the Turkey and Chicken they love are actually from the furry birds with the same name. Don't ever lie to or conceal anything from them. Kids often apply more common sense to stuff like this than adults.

Okay, how would you handle this one?

Had to pick up my 6 year old great niece (apple of my eye) off the school bus last Tuesday, which really put a crimp in my hunting plans. So, I figured I'd stand up on my second floor deck, which faces wooded property all around, and she could watch Rugrats or something; if she needed me, she could run upstairs and let me know. Naturally, she wanted to stand out there with me, so, I bundled her up (it was 8 degrees) and stuck an orange knit hat on her head. Figured she'd last about 15 - 20 minutes, then get cold and want to go inside. We were there about 10 minutes and out comes 2 does and a nice 8-point, about 30 - 40 yards away (in 10 years, I'd been up there probably 20 times in deer season and had NEVER seen ANY deer, much less a buck). I had the crosshairs plastered all over him, when she said "Don't shoot him Uncle, he's too skinny" (didn't look that skinny to me). AnywaY, I didn't shoot. Figured there'd be more deer (didn't work out - today was the last day. Skunked again ), and didn't want to be responsible for 20 years of therapy for killing the deer in front of her, when she'd asked me not to.

What would you have done?

R-WEST

R-west,

I'd have probably done the same damn thing. Heaven knows I've gotten myself skunked before for MUCH worse than the simple request of a 6-year old girl! One that only wanted you to get a real trophy! My guess is that you'll probably have the chance to take her out again, and my guess is she'll love it. Good call man!

After reading all these posts, I think the real value *IS* exposing your kids to dead things. At that moment we de-mystify their world and ground them in a reality of this world. So much of our modern culture is "sugar coated" and taboo. Life, death, sex, drugs, marriage, even money.

Seems like an awfully important thing to give to a kid. Good for you all!

This will be a little long-winded.

The first year my dad allowed me to hunt mule deer (early 60s) I went with he, two of his friends and the five year old nephew of one of the men.

It was a classic first hunt. Memories that could fill a book. Every emotion imaginable. It ended beautifully with two ten-point bucks down at the same time.

The little boy's uncle was showing me how to gut a deer. The little boy was inching his toes near the pool of blood that was forming. His uncle told him to move back. He did, then started inching toward the blood again. About the third time, his uncle patiently stopped what he was doing, took out the toy knife the boy had on his waist and dipped it in the blood. That little boy grinned from ear to ear. Now he was a hunter like us.

We had pictures taken of me and my buck, the other man and his buck, different combinations of all the people and deer.

Years later I lost all those pictures during one of my many moves. My dad had died of cancer in 68, and that had been the only successful hunt he and I had been on together. I hated not having the pictures.

Thirty years later my brother-in-law was playing golf with an elderly couple and they invited he and my sister over to their house for snacks.

As my sister was sitting in their living room she looked on a table and there was one of my pictures. She said, "that's my brother". The lady said, "that's my son", pointing at the little boy standing beside me while I kneeled by my buck.

The lady dug out a copy of each of the photos that had been taken thirty years ago, and my sister made duplicates and sent them to me.

A year or so later I was playing golf with my brother-in-law at the NMSU course in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and he said that's the couple who we got your old hunting photos from. We went over and spoke to them.

They said their boy never stopped talking about that mule deer hunt. He was so excited he couldn't sleep that night when he got home. He kept them up re-living every minute of the hunt. His mother said that hunt was the high point of his life. He was diagnosed with leukemia when he was seven and died before he was eight.

His last stay in the hospital, his mother asked him about his life. He said the mule deer hunt was the best.

While this woman was telling me this story I was biting my cheek as hard as I could, but I couldn't bite it hard enough.

When you think you are teaching a child about death, you are really teaching them about life. They are stronger than you think.

Wow, Kensco...great story...... Lessons learned...............................

Kensco - Now you got me bitin' my cheek. Dang your hide. Thanks for telling that. I don't think anyone will ever top it.

You're a fine fellow...of course most guys from Artesia are. I hope I get to shake your hand someday.

Thanks.

I can't say what made me be a hunter, but I do have one other picture of my dad with a deer that might say how early the process starts.

It is a small black and white photo taken in 1948. The buck is hanging by his horns from a telephone pole back behind our house on Dallas Street in Artesia. My dad is on one side of the buck and I'm on the other. I'm 1 1/2 years old.

The first time my dad showed me that picture I asked him who the little boy was. He said it was me. I asked him where my older brother and sister were. He said they weren't interested; but he knew I was going to be a hunter right then.

My dad killed old Bucky near Pi�on. It was the one and only deer I'm aware that he ever killed. Once I started hunting and he got sick, he hunted through me. I'd bring them back and let him help skin and butcher if he was up to it. He'd want to hear the whole story, and get excited right along with me.

The last deer my dad saw was through the living room picture window in Las Cruces. They weren't really there, of course, it was the medication; but I told him I saw them too, a buck and two doe.

A month or so later my mother told me to get my guns out of the house. I didn't do it. I didn't want my dad to know what we were thinking; that we didn't trust him.

I showed my mother that I'd removed the bolts and hidden them. They couldn't be fired. I knew what she was afraid of. I wasn't going to let that happen.

He died later that year in El Paso on the 4th of July at a little after 7:00pm just as the fireworks display kicked off over by UTEP. It spooked me at the time, but I guess it was fitting; Independence Day.

Kensco, thank you very much for sharing these two stories with us.

Regards,
Martin

Those were some great stories guys.

I think that it is never too early to expose children to the animals we harvest. I have 4 children ranging in age from 12 to 3. They have had their hands on, and pictures taken with, almost every deer, turkey or bear that I have taken.

My kids know where the venison comes from. My 5 year old son was upset this fall when I took a deer to a processor instead of butchering it at home as usual. He likes to help.

cwilson

The bumper sticker reads:-

'Make friends with kids - Gut a deer'

My children get to see it from the moment they can walk. I gralloch mine in the barn. My son (nearly 6) can tell the difference between roe, muntjac and fallow and bucks (Daddy deer) and does (Mummy deer). He knows deer eat trees and crops and so must be culled.

The twins (age 2)crowded round me on Saturday as I dealt with a fallow. The girl made the clip clop horse noise and they both liked to stroke it's fur. When it came to the blood they were completely unfazed.

Other families kids are initialy disgusted but curiosity quickly overcomes this. When they realise that everything unzips without smelling a bunch they start to ask questions and to crowd round. Watch where you put the knife, make sure it is hung securely (100lbs falling on a kid ) and don't do any gut shot ones first off.

To my knowledge I am not breeding a bunch of psychos!

Update: The older one and I were watching your standard variety of hunting shows this weekend. Whether it was ducks, deer, caribou, etc. her favorite phrase is now "That's very, very good"...

Exposure is the main part. I never thought about my exposure. It was fishing. That is a great idea that I just got here. Fish do not have the cute hugable features. I remember "helping" my Dad and My Uncle gutting fish. I would inspect the insides and the eyes more than help . But Dad explained what I was looking at. Uncle Glen actually incouraged me to see what was in a fish stomach and he explained that the fish ate the bug, and we eat the fish. My girlfriend's nephews were just as intrested as I was this summer when we caught fish. I explained to them.

Exposure is the main thing. Most children seem to be curious. If they get vibe that something is wrong with a dead animal from an adult then they seem to get scared like the adult. Expalination is essential. I was in the woods with my nephew and we found deer droppings. Not knowing what they were he asked and I told him. "Deer poop" he said. I told him to take a stick and test to see how fresh it was. Then for the rest of the time in the woods he would spot and check out the droppings. He wasn't grossed out. Now at 5 he went turkey hunting with his Grandpa and saw the turkey they harvested before Grandpa.

Exposure and explaining the life cycle chain is essential.

Hcliff

my 2 1/2 year old has been out hunting with us since she was under a year old (dove hunting) and has grown up around stuff we killed.

the only time she was ever nervous was when i shot a big hog - she was afraid of that one . . . but has never been afraid of dead deer.

the other day, i was flipping through the channels and she saw one of the outdoor channel shows and said "i want to watch deer hunting, daddy".

heres a pic of her and me and dead stuff . . .