Now for years I have in fact pondered over calibers like the 35 Whelen etc. Do any of you think or believe that the future will be kinder to such calibers or will they continue to fade now that other new beltless calibers are out on the market?

Hope not! I'm having a 358win. built as we speak.

As long as there are reloading manuals and actions to be converted, someone will read about what a great cartridge something was way-back-when and have to have one built. (Not to mention the gunwriters in the future will alway need material to sell the gun rags)!!

These new Ultra-mags and WSM or SAUM rounds will not kill game any "deader" than cartridges did in grandpa's day.

For some "hunters" these new whizbang cartridges just make them able to shoot AT game from longer distances and possess less hunting skill.

Now that I have stirred up the pot, let me also say that the WSM and the SAUM ctgs are comparable to their longer cousins i.e. 300win mag, 7mm Rem mag. etc. and no one necessarily accuses those who use these ctgs of being any less of a hunter.

Time will tell what happens to the 35's. Personally, I love my 35 whelen Remington 7600. I have taken 2 black bears and several deer with it here in Pennsylvania. That 250 grain round nose hits like the hammer of Thor! Most everything I have shot has dropped in its tracks.

I think that given the velocity craze that we are under right now there is not a great call for a 35. With trajectory being king here in the USA, there is more of a calling for the 270, 7mm and .308 calibers. Although I feel a 35 WSM would make an AWESOME elk gun. All of my big game has been shot under 150 yards. My Whelen is perfect for this. I would like to buy a manlicher carbine in 35 WSM if somebody would make it! I think there is a far better chance of seeing a 338 WSM than the 35. This would not be a bad second choice!

We need someone like Elmer Keith to reframe the argument. When the bugs get worked out of monolithic bullets there may be a shake up in cartridges.

If you look at the .308 as a basic case the 243 produces 2100 FPE at the muzzle and the .358 Win makes 3100 FPE out of the same basic case! With a light, well made, monolithic .358 bullet with say a poly carbonate meplat to optimize it's ballistic coeffient such a bullet would outperform a small bore. For instance a 150 gr bullet out of the .358 Win will make 3000 FPS out of a 20" barrel!

As long as I have room in my closet the future of the .35's is assured. Do wish Barnes would produce the 300 gr Original again though.

Not unlike the 300 savage, there are enough 35 cal rifles floating around that they wont be "fading away" anytime soon. As long as there is a market for 35 caliber ammo and such they will continue to be serviced and that will leave the door open for future 35 cal developments.

Digital Dan, call Barnes, the last time I called them they had 30-40 boxes of 300gr RN "O"s in stock.
Mark

Boy, I hope not. I was just pondering today about having a Whelen made up on a VZ-24 action. This thread is like deja vu

My dads Model 81 in 35rem. has killed many deer in the last 65 years.Now that it has been passed down to me I don't see why it can't still kill a few more.
Fuzz

I think the future is pretty bright. While there is a big magnum craze, there is also a big revival of the older, larger calibers, too. I have had quite a few clients show up with .35s, and I am going to have one built soon.

I hope not also. I've got a beautiful custom pre-64 Model 70 chambered in .35 Whelan AI at home.

Chigger,
No i don't think they will fade away. I think its only a matter of time before you see some .35 caliber UM,SUM(or whatever they callem) factory rifles in production. Myself, i shoot a .35 Griffin & Howe Imp. I would love to see a production mod 70 in .358 STA!

Thanks Mark!

I don't think the .35's will ever fade away. In my opinion the caliber is near perfect for African plains game and North American larger game. I shoot two Shooting Times Alaskans, commonly referred to as the .358 STA. I can shoot a 185 grain bullet up to a 310 grain bullet, with excellent ballistics and S.D.'s. A 270 grain .358 caliber North Fork bullet at 2900 to 3000 fps is nothing to sneeze at, anywhere in the world. Woodleigh, North Fork, Swift, Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, Barnes, all make some tremendous bullet for the .35's. The Whelen, and Norma .35's are classics and always will be. A .35 WSM perhaps, in my opinion the field is wide open, all it takes is imagination from a manufacture. Good shooting.

[ 12-27-2002, 18:24: Message edited by: phurley ]

I don't see any need for a 350 WSM. We already have a 350 Rem Mag that almost nobody uses.

MikeIrava,

Your right of course but why? On one hand the .375 is minimum for some African hunting and presently to get a flat trajectory a .35 cal bullet has to be so heavy and going so fast that it will kick like heck. On top of that it seems that there is a revival of the 9.3X62 which of course is a competitor. How it fits in I am not sure.

Elmer Keith is quoted as saying "what's it good for" so the .35 cal magnum fans must convince the rest of us that heavy recoil must be tolerated for long range, non dangerous game hunting.

The vast majority of shooters don't like heavy recoil. It's one of the reasons why the .358 Winchester does not have even one production rifle chambered for it and the .243 Win is one of the most popular chamberings.

I doubt if the 35 will die out completely as long as rifle nuts exist. I have a custom made 358 Winchester that I love and the usual 35 Remington in a Marlin. They both work well on deer here in Pa.

Bob257

Remington is coming out with a new rifle to accomodate the 350 Rem Mag, Its called the 673(22"barrel with vent rib & Lam stock) as it is based on the old model 600, uses the model 7 action, and is introduced in 2003. It is doubtful if any other 358SM are forthcoming as the 350 Rem Mag is 2.8" OAL IIRC.

Pat Hurley I feel the same as you! I have got the fixin's down stairs to make another 35 Whelen just like my 338/06......both will be feather weight model 70 Winchesters when finished. I will mount one of those straight power compact Leupold scopes on it and give the 338/06 to a family member. Hope to use the 35 Whelen on a moose hunt up in Canada next year. Cheer's and Happy New Year
To ALL~!

Good question. It seems to me that those who shoot these cartridges become aficianados. Historically these cartridges have done poorly in sales. I always thought the .358 Winchester, the .350 Remington Magnum and the .35 Whelen (the last two a very close ballistically) represented excellent North American hunting cartridges for all species. I have several long time hunting buddies who have been using the .358 Win and the .35 Whelen for about 20 years. These always perform effectively for them, and I've helped drag many deer from the woods which were one shot kills with good hits from these two cartridges.

I love the 35 Whelen I took a Nice 140 Pound doe at 80 yards through thick brush, killed her on the spot, I have built 2 on mauser actions.

Savage 99. Elmer's comment, "What's it good for?" was made in reference to Remington's unveiling of the 8MM Rem. Mag.at a seminar. I remember laughing at it when I read it. Typical Elmer.
Paul B.

I remember some years ago Bob Bristler (sp?) wrote an article in one of the outdoor mags promoting the .358 Norma mag. He said that it comes very near the power of the 375 H&H, and that he had used it successfully on Cape Buffalo, if I remember correctly. His rifle was a light, 22 inch barreled Ruger 77 that Ruger had supplied with a .35 caliber barrel and that Bristler had had custom chambered. He also wrote that his PHs had laughed at it when he brought it out -- saying something like the buffalo would come walking out of the grass picking his teeth with that rifle -- but when they saw the results from it the laughter went away and they were impressed.

Why the .358 Norma has died is a mystery to me. It seems to me to be a near-ideal caliber for some purposes.

I think the .35 cals will live on, but I doubt they will ever be super popular except for the gun nut crowd. Normal folks will continue to buy 06's, .270s, .243s, .308s, etc... and the rest will continue to buy the super/short magnums. The general hunting public is just too mesmerized by 400 yard ballistics...

Luckily, I stumbled upon a great deal on a Rem 700 Classic in .35 Whelen. Haven't had a chance to take game with it yet, but might do a hog hunt this spring in TX. I'm sure I'll become a .35 cal fan real quick.

Regards,

Lou

PaulH,

Thanks for the specifics on Elmers quote "What's it good for?"

The question remains unanswered however!

I am all for the .35 caliber but it's so close to the .375 for a DGR that the path of least resistance stays with the bigger bore.

For long range shooting maybe there is some application. There is on long range hunter here who uses the .358 STW but the recoil is so fearce that I can't see more than a few selling.

For shorter range shooting at bigger game in the lower 48 the 30/06 is plenty or at least the vast majority of hunters think it is.

In my opinion, the .35's future isn't in the magnum that will compete with the .375s, but in the moderately-powered .358 Win/.350 Rem/.35 Whelen. Something that provides better performance than a .35 Remington, in a rifle that's more accurate and doesn't have a tubular magazine, rather than something that looks like a .358 Norma or the hypothetical .358 RUM.

While a lot of hunters, particularly those who hunt beanfields or the open environs of the West, are enthralled with trajectory/velocity, those of us who've spent some time hunting on the eastern side of the 100th meridian are usually happy to get a 50-yard shooting lane, and shots over 200 are pretty rare.

My pet "brush rifle" is an old Ruger .44 carbine, and you don't need more power or a flatter trajectory to anchor whitetail in the northeast woods.

Still, deer aren't the only thing you might come across in the thick stuff. I'm not completely sold on the .44's penetration on a December-fat black bear on anything but a pure broadside shot, and when I get invited to still-hunt hogs on a Texas ranch, the same thoughts cross my mind--along with a picture of a po'ed porky popping his jaws and facing me down through maybe five yards of chapparal. And if I ever get drawn for a Maine moose permit, the .44 just isn't a viable optionl.

Now, I could just resort to the Tikka in 7mm Rem, or one of my other options, and solve all of those problems, but the longer barrels, more powerful scopes, etc. aren't really the optimum solution.

Instead, picture something like the Ruger 77I in .358 Win, or perhaps the Remington 673 in .350 Rem that Ralph was mentioning. Not overkill for deer, but enough bullet weight, energy and wound-channel diameter to put down a larger animal even if bullet performance isn't perfect and to give adequate penetration at less-than-optimum angles. A rifle that's short and light enough to be used comfortably in the brush, but with enough zip to take the 250-yard poke at a pig that wanders into the sendero or a deer under the power lines. Recoil that's noticeable, but no worse than currently popular whitetail calibers in 7mm, .300, .45/70, etc.

I can't think of a better choice for a lot of Eastern situations. Making such a rifle a viable commercial proposition probably depends more on marketing and editorial support than anything else. I wish Remington all the luck in the world with their attempt--and hope that Ruger takes a look at the possibilities--before I have to rebarrel a .308.

I like to think I'm helping! I have 2 Whelen rifles, 1 Whelen pistol (TC Encore),
A 35 Rem Contender pistol, & I am building a 358 Norma Mag. in the shop right now.
They all strike like the HAMMER of THOR!!!!!

I like to think of my 35 whelen as a light kicking fast handling substitute for my 338WM. I have a 700 Rem Classic that has been my go to rifle for quite a few years. I have taken everything from shoats to Kudu and it puts them down with authority. For longer ranges over 200 yards I prefer the 338WM but for those of us that hunt the thick stuff on the east coast I don't think you can beat the 35 whelen. I'd like to try one of the new Rem 673's if they would get rid of the ventilated rib.

I would agree with the .35 Whelen being nearly a perfect African plains game cartridge. For me, the Whelen is everything the .338 Win is, under 250 yards, which takes in about 95% of my shots at big game. If you have never shot any game with a .35, you would be impressed at how they work in the field.

I have a 35 Whelen improved and a 358 win and am planning to purchase the rem 673 when I get the cash together. (I just had twin girls on Nov. 29) But the 35's will hit as hard or as soft as you with them to. An example is in my Whelen I can get 2830fps with a 225gr Nosler BT. If you take the time to shoot a bit, 300+ shots are dooable. If you reload, and want to get very faliliar with your gun, you can load up powder puff loads useing cast lead bullets meant for the 38, or 357's. Then there is the 180gr bullet that can be had both for the 35 rem and lower speed, but also the speer(?) I mite be wrong it has been some time since I have loaded this one, But it was orginally ment for the 350 rem mag. Even in the 358 Win you can get close to 2900fps. We don't even have to talk about the 250gr+ loads for these guns because they are well known. It is good for a great number of things, large and small.

congrats elliot! boy are you bummin'. let us know how those guns shoot in about 15 years. after your hair falls out and 2 hours sleep is sleeping in you get to walk em' down the isle.
my 2 little girls run me ragged but when i pull in with a deer in the back of my truck, i am god.
good to be around for htis stuff!
long live the 35's
woofer