What's the deal with Leupold's new line up of scopes? I am helping my buddy outfit his new Browning White Gold Medallion, in .300 Win Mag, and just bought a Leupold scope, rings and bases. We were looking at Leupold's prices at Wholesale Sports in Alberta, Canada. Found what we wanted in Leupold's Vari-X II, silver, 3-9X40. I was told the price was $469.00 Canadian Dollars, then told that because it was a discontinued model, it was on for only $399.00.. (If anyone wants one, HURRY UP, because they only got 2 left, and both have to be shipped in from their Saskatoon store. Ph# 1-800-696-0253 )
I was told that the Vari-X II has been replaced with the new VX-II model. These are $499.00CDN. They guy working in the firearm's section tells me that they are slightly more expensive in price, but are built more cheaply inside, in Leupold's effort to keep the price down to affordable. Needless to say, I went with last year's model, Vari-X II. I'll take "Tried, Tested, and True" over "Be our Guinea Pig" any day!
So what's the inside scoop on this new line of scopes? Anyone have any good or bad tales to pass on?
CW

The vari-XII has been discontinued and Leupold has brought out both the VX-I and VX-II lines. The VX-II is much the same as the old vari-XII line except it has multicoated lens and click adjustments. I've never heard this stuff about them being built more cheaply, I suspect it's just a gun store clerk who values his own opinion more than it's worth.

The VX-I is, as far as I can tell, exactly the same scope as the old Vari-XII except they're only available in gloss, no matte or silver.

I wouldn't buy that stuff about the new scopes being inferior. I bought one of the new VX II models (2x7) to top off my .338 for an African Plains game hunt. Worked great. I spoke to Leupold technicians about the differences between this model and the old Vari X II which I also own. As boltman said, the differences is multi -4 coating on the exterior lenses (as compared to interior as well as exterior on the Vari X III line) and 1/4 minute click adjustments. Seems like a great scope for the $$. I paid $249 (US) for mine.

Leupold has done an excellent job of improving manufacturing efficiency while maintaining product quality. I have Leupold scopes ranging in manufacture date from 1964 to 2001, and they are virtually indistinguishable in opitcal quality and mechanical function.

The new VX-I is, for all practical purposes, identical to the previous Vari-X II-c. As a marketing ploy, Leupold has restricted the VX-I line to three models, all high gloss finish, which are priced BELOW the models they replaced. Now you have to move up to the somewhat more expensive VX-II line (which is about 50 cents more expensive to manufacture) to get more selection in magnificaton and matte or silver finish.

You did indeed find a bargain in the close-out Vari-X II silver, not because it is superior to the newer line, but because a silver model in the newer line would have cost somewhat more.

Enjoy your Leupold!

I only buy used Leupolds at about 50 cents on the dollar, Gunlist or E-Bay, Gunshows etc. No matter what, Leupold will fix them...

I had an excited hunter actually twist the lens off my old Leupold binocs for some strange reason...I sent them back and told Leupold what happened and they sent me a new pair, a month later sent me my old ones fixed..I called them and told them what they had done, they said keep them both....

I had a horse roll over and snap a 2x7x in half, sent it back telling them it was not their fault but could they fix the scope with a new tube or what? The sent me a new scope, no questions asked...

Now how can you beat that????

From one of the above posts, am I to assume then that the new VX-II has better coating on the lense than the older model Vari-X II?
CDW

It depends on who you ask.

The Leupold marketing department will swear that the VX-II is superior to the VX-I (and Vari-X II) in light transmission because the EXTERNAL (only) lenses are "multicoated" (as opposed to a "single" coat of magnesium floride).

The marketing department will also tell you that the Vari-X III is better still because ALL lenses are "multicoated".

But then that's their job. They're the marketing department, after all.

While multiple thin coats of magnesium floride will theoretically reduce light dispersion (improve transmission), even with the best methods used in mass production it is unlikely that the multicoat will measurably improve light transmission over a well-done single coat.

With some cheap Asian-produced optics, the multicoat process just "slops" additional MF on the surface of the lens and may actually decrease, rather than increase, transparency.

Bottom line: Leupold scopes are all excellent products. When you buy the VX-I line, you're buying their best value; if you prefer click adjustments or a different finish, you must pay a bit more for their VX-II; if you want to impress your friends by paying even more for the prestige of the "top" of the line, you can buy the Vari-X III; and for people for whom the "top of the line" is not prestigious enough, there's the LPS. If you can afford the LPS, then you can also afford a gunbearer to carry that heavy SOB around for you. Truly snotty buyers will insist on some chunk of iron more suitable to swatting baseballs, with a name on it spelled with a lot of extra consanants, and produced somewhere east of the O degree meridian.

I'll bet you a dollar to a dime that some of the Leupold engineers and production staff, who are naturally under the gag rule on this subject, will be quietly appreciative of these comments.

[ 07-18-2002, 23:41: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

My understanding is that the "new" VX-1 line is simply the old Vari-X IIc. The VX-2 incorporates the click adjustment and multicoat of the old Vari-X III (in essence, replaces it). The new VX-3 is the same as the Vari-X III with vastly improved coating technology. Was told this by the Leupold Rep.

Stonecreek, as a general rule, the purpose of coatings is not to increase transmission, but to filter (oh, sorry "enhance") certain colors, and reduce dispersion (increase resolution and reduce "flare").

One of my main bitches about the old vari-xII was that looking towards a setting sun would create enough flare to make the scope less than worthless.... The exterior multi-coat should fix that problem to a large extent. Of course click adjustments..... about time, one should say? JMO, Dutch.

Rick MD is correct I think. The VX 1 line represents good value.

Dutch: Well, what you say may certainly be true, but the optics marketers always emphasize the improved light transmission of multi-coating as its selling point. You raise an interesting point about the ability of a glass to provide a usable image when pointed near a bright light source. I think I'll give a try at my next opportunity in comparing the Vari-XII and Vari-X III in a low-sun situation.

As to click-stop adjustments, they are certainly more popular these days, but I remember when the friction adjustments with (theoretically) infinite minimum adjustment were touted as superior (which, as I recall, is why Leupold adopted that system to begin with). I can live with them or live without them.

Anyway, you've got to hand it to the Leupold marketing department: They are in the hunt with a competitively priced scope (VX-I), and have plenty of ways to finess buyers into their more profitable, higher-priced lines. I'm just delighted that they kept their entry-level line high quality American-made and didn't go to Asia for it.

[ 07-19-2002, 20:35: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

Stone creek rumour has it that the VX-1 line will be going to Asia is that correct??

I think there was a lot of speculation when it leaked that the Vari X II was being dropped that it would be replaced with an Asian-made model. Since Leupold has just brought out the VX-I, I don't see any upside for them in this.

Their marketing strength (in the U.S.) is partly in their slogan "Made right, made here". Everybody and his Aunt Sue is importing an Asian-made scope, some of which are passable and some of which are without merit. There wouldn't seem to be any way that Leupold could market an Asian scope any cheaper or better than Bushnell, or Nikon, or Pentax, or "Weaver", or whomever; so I would assume that they would stay with their current marketing strategy.

They've met with spotted success in imported binoculars. Originally, they experimented with branding foreign-made binoculars with the "Leupold" brand -- their first porros were Japanese (and actually pretty good) and their compact roof prisms were Portuguese. Later, they got nervous about putting the "Golden Ring" imprimiture on imported products, so they dropped the first line of binos and came out with some American-made "Leupolds" and some Asian-made "Wind River by Leupold. The market would just about as soon have a Nikon or Pentax or Olympus as a Wind River by Leupold. This experience tells me that they'll probably stick to their Oregon origins with their scopes (although I assume that all of the glass is imported, and possibly some of the other components).

[ 07-20-2002, 03:04: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

Stonecreek, I think the brilliance of Leupold is ole Henry's brilliance: they can have any color, as long as it is black.......

The VXI allows Leupold to stay in the game by reducing stock items, which is a big deal in manufacturing. In the past, they rolled the cost of offering a multitude of products into the whole line. This pushed them out of the entry level market. Now, if you want something out of the ordinary, you have to ante-up. Dedicated shooters are willing to do that, so they won't loose any business. Pushing the old Vari-XII back under $200, which is a HUGE price barrier, was absolutely necessary for Leupold's long term survivability.

As far as friction adjustments being superior...... Well, let's not go there. JMO, Dutch.

Dutch can you expand on your comment about friction adjustments please?? I personally prefer click adjust as I suspect most do.

I much prefer the click adjustments..the older Leupolds had to be hammered between movements, well tapped anyway, and you should go past the desired setting and then return to it when sighting in a Leupold..not so with the click adjustments....the old scopes work fine if you understand them..Most of mine are VariX11's....

I doubt that Leupold or anyone else makes a scope that you can be effective shooting into the sunset. Thats time to screw the sunshade extension on and maybe that will help...I have lost an animal or two over the years from this phenomenum. But I just mark it down to tough luck, works for me.

A couple of thing fellas. The friction type adjustments have limited life, or so says Dick Thomas of Premier Reticles. You can get them changed if you wish. I've got both. The only ones I change alot are the target/tactical type, which are click style, of course. I have no plans to change the others. They have worked fine for many years.
Without coating, a glass surface will reflect up to 50% of the light that strikes it. But, there is a catch. The coating has to be 1/2 of of the wavelenth of the light hitting it to reflect some of that light back into the glass surface. More coatings reflect more light back into the glass surface, IF they are the right thickness(s). Some makers, like Pentax get really tricky. They apply as many as 7 coatings.
The other thing is that once you reach the 90% range, it gets tough to tell them apart.
So, what do you need ? We hunters like low light performance. We also like flare control. The better scope makers know this, and build accordingly. Good, multicoated scopes don't flare as badly as single coated scopes. Since they transmit more light, they work better at low light.
Then there is another catch in the low light angle. Best illustrated by an example in John Barsness's book, "Optics for the Hunter".
He compared a fully multicoated 4X with an 8 mm exit pupil to a varible, which has more light stopping lenses, and a 28 mm objective lense. Set on 7X, the 2-7X Leo. Compact, even with a single lense coating barely out performed the multicoated 4X. A B&L Balfour for those who want to know.
The new VX-II Leupolds are very close, but not quite the optical quality of the Vari-X III. The VariX III's have all their lenses multicoated, not just the very important outer objective.
I also understand they are built just a ruggedly which is one of the top qualities I want in a hunting scope. E

PC, I prefer click adjustments, also. I think the "friction is superior" statement is some of that "twaddle" Ray is referring to, promulgated by the sales department.

As far as shooting into the sun, I have never lost an game animal to it, thank goodness. It gets plenty annoying when varmint hunting, and the guy next to you keeps popping them, while you are out of commission because your scope is inferior. That's how I discovered the value of good, multicoated glass. I can also tell you that what Tasco calls a "multi coat" is not as good as a Vari-X II's single coat...... and it is inferior, by a bit, to a B&L 4000 multicoat --- all this with respect to glare, only. That's the extent of my experience. FWIW, Dutch.