I want to work up a real hot load for my rifle so that it will shoot flat and still hit hard on deer. I was looking at acquiring either the 125 grain Nosler ballistic tip or the 130 grain Barnes "X" bullet. I have heard that the Barnes bullets are not at all accurate but then again some people swear by them. Also would a 125 Nosler Ballistic speeding at 3100 fps explode when it hit a deer?? Would some of you tell me about your hunting experiences with these bullets. Thanks alot.

I will never, never use ballistic tips on deer again! In fact I will never hunt big game without using premium bullets. Chances at mature bucks, bulls, rams and bear are just to rare to risk it.

chuck

I've used 140 gr Nosler ballistic tips the last 2 years to take (2) mule deer in Utah, both with my .270 Weatherby. Each deer went down instantly w/1 shot at approx. 300 yards avg. If you have confidence with your chosen rifle that you can hit where you aim, the ballistic-tips work fine on deer-size thin-skinned game, IMHO.

Craig

Like Craig, I have the same results, range, and confidence at greg on mature mulies with 100gr NBTs.

John, the barnes 30 cal 130 grain XLCs did a very good job for us this year on deer and are very accurate. We start them at about 3300fps out of our 24" 300WSMs.

The problem with the ligter bullets leaving at higher muzzle velocity is that they shed speed much faster then the heavier bullets. Look at a drop chart, a 125-130 gr @ 3000 fps isn't noteably flatter shooting then a 150 @ 2800 fps. That and when you get out past 300 yds, that 125-130 gr isn't as much bullet when hitting the dear way out there.

The .308 is a fine deer hunting round, when stoked with a 150-165 gr bullet, and flat enough shooting for 300 yds. If you want a long range deer rifle, then get a 300 win mag.

I'm with Paul on this. I've started loading heavier bullets in my 300 WinMag. The 180 - 220 grain bullets perform very well for me. Why use all that powder on light bullets? Maybe I'm just perverse, but I get off on pushing the heavy stuff as fast as I accurately can.

If you familiarize yourself with a certain bullet and load you don't have to worry too much about getting the highest speed and least drop.

That said, I just loaded the Nosler 125 BTip to see how it shoots. If any of my recipes are good for MOA or better I'll have a great varmint round.

Have you considered the Hornady SST's? Very high ballistic coefficients. Of course the initial velocity would be greater with the 150 grain, the 180 would be the hardest hitting at any range, the 165 grain a compromise.
My 30-06 shot the 165's much more accurately than the other two weights. Your rifle will likely be different.

i would go for the barnes but the deer were your from are not that big. use what ever shoots the best in your rifle. if people can kill deer with 223 or 22-250 with 60gr. bullets then why cant you use 125gr bullets in an 06.

I will use the X bullet

Unless you are the Beastmaster and can choreograph the distance and angle your shot opportunity occurs, hunting with any bullet that handicaps your cartridge just to gain .25-.50 MOA is just insanity.

When Mr. Big suddenly appears at forty yards, how many of the BT hunters are going to pass because of excessive velocity. Or if he wanders off at an extreme angle leaving only a low percentage brain shot? Would've been a piece of cake for a "ParteXBond" in a cartridge of sufficient energy.

I've had a BT utterly fail at 25 feet. One of my buddies had spectacular kills with them until season before last when he lost a doe at thirty yards. I have come to the conclusion that cupncores do not like bone in any shape or form.

But nobody believes the stories until it happens to them. Human nature.

I've had lots of instant kills with partitions. Probably 75%. 100% recovery, knock on wood. To me they are as clear an improvement over cupncore as smokeless powder is over blackpowder. And anyone who can afford a computer and Internet access and then gripes about the extra 45 cents per animal is not thinking.

I'd prefer to have the shot-taking decisions left to me, not the bullet. Go with the X, even if it shoots 1.5 MOA.

(Please remember I'm not proposing federal legislation here. My opinions won't affect you, except maybe to irritate you )

[ 02-21-2003, 18:01: Message edited by: steve y ]

I can't speak to .30 calibers much, but I will say that the 120 grain Barnes XLC in my 6.5X55 is accurate as heck and works well enough on deer. One problem though. At close range and high velocity (my situation this year), this bullet punched straight through like an arrow. I'm not convinced it opened at all, but the Barnes rep told me that the high impact velocity caused the "petals" to shed extremely rapidly, leaving the shank to penetrate alone. This was accentuated by the fact that I hit no bone (tight quartering away shot behind the ribs and out between two ribs very far forward on the other side). The blood trail was pathetic, but I watched the little bugger go down, so I wasn't overly concerned. Because of this experience, I've dropped back down to the 140s about 200 fps slower. One hog at about 50 yards showed signs of good bullet expansion with complete penetration. I too would shy away from the ballistic tips and opt for a tougher bullet. Try those 130 Barnes, I've been considering them in my .308 Encore pistol and would be interested in your results.

PS, contrary to many others' results, I was very unhappy with the performance of SSTs (150 grainers) out of the above-mentioned .308. Two wild goats, both at less than 75 yards. Neither had an exit and one took multiple shots. The SSTs acted just like big V-maxes, penetrating the skin, then rapidly expanding with minimal penetration. One one broadside hit and one quartering to me shot, the bullets only penetrated enough to get one lung on each animal.

[ 02-21-2003, 18:15: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

John17,
I'm assuming that you are talking about a .30 caliber in the 30-06 class.

If this is so, I don't think you'll be very happy with the 125 Nosler BT's terminal ballistics. These bullets are hollow points with little plastic tips and tend to be a little mushy. For accurate long range shooting, my choice is the 165 grain BT. It gived up a little velocity at the the muzzel to the 150 grain BT but it's good ballistic coefficient gives it less drop and more retained energy at longer range.

I've never been able to make x bullets of any weight group very well in my 30-06 Mauser.

Muzzel velocity isn't everything. Accuracy, good terminal ballistics, and shot placement will get your game every time.

I've used the 125 gr. BT with great success at 3000+ fps on mulies and whitetails out of my .308. It was during my faster is flatter stage and will kill better. The terminal performance was ok, wrecked a little meat, but killed very quickly. It you run into a shoulder bone you'll break and it will penetrate the ribcage, but will disintegrate once it gets there. That all being said, my choice for deer now is the 150 gr. from my .308, 165 gr. BT from my .30-06. I can drive the 150 gr. almost as fast as the 125 gr. and it holds together much better and shoots flatter. The 165 I get 2900 fps from in the .30-06, goes through any deer I've met and shoots very flat. I think you'll be happier with a heavier bullet, as well as more confident in the terminal performance. I have a lot of experience with all of the Nosler BT's, they are far and away my favorite deer bullet, I tell it the way it is.
Yardbird

I used NBT's for the first time this year and though it killed a 150# Muley Doe I was not as impressed as I would have liked. At 150yrds, .30 caliber bullet traveling approximately 2885fps went through a rib/lung and ended up far side hide above hip (with exception of rib, all soft tissue). Recovered 100gr of original 150gr bullet (nice mushroom, but you could really see the light jacket construction). Had this been a VERY close shot and/or big buck I think it would have been unlikely for the bullet to punch through alot of deer/bone well.

In the same rifle I have the 180grXLCBT's shooting MOA or better as my elk load. Just bought a 7mm-08 and will probably work with the 120 or 130XBT's for antelope/deer. Truly believe that most folks are spoiled with the ease as to which good accuracy can be achieved with Nosler products (and this is a good thing for most). However, I know the Barnes will punch through anything and I do believe that Barnes can shoot just as well if not better. In most cases I believe that poor accuracy is attributed to poor load development technique.

Deke.

john17,

If you're going to go light then stick with the Barnes. Nosler makes a great bullet but it isn't the Ballistic Tip. They are not designed for high velocity loads and have a tendency to break up on the smallest bone. A shoulder shot will most likely just tear up meat and not anchoring the animal. I've heard more horror stories, my own included, about Ballistic Tips and SST's and their like than any other bullet. Animal requiring more than one shot, bullets going to pieces and not reaching the heart/lung area. Give me Partitions or Barnes, I don't like my bullets going to pieces. Lawdog

middle weight Partitions in any caliber at any speed is the best deer bullet made,bar none.

I subscribe to shooting 165 grain bullets out of my 308 Win. It spanks deer just fine from 30 yards to 330 yards.

If you want something real flat shooting and deer is your primary quarry, go down to a .257, pushing an 85-100 grain controlled expansion bullet. Even a fine tuned 25-06 Rem can reach 3400 fps, while the Weatherby simply smokes at 3600 fps. All in all, sighted at 300 yard zero, you have about 6-7 inches of drop at 400 yards with these rigs. You could do the same with a handloaded 7mm Rem Mag pushing a 125-140 grain class bullet at 3300-3500 fps.

If 400 yards is your goal, the 308 Win isn't going to cut it with .30 caliber varmint weight bullets. The difference in velocity, especially in the .30 calibers, is negligable at 250 yards between a lighter bullet and the heavier 165 grainer, the heavier will overtake it and has much more wallop way out there (BC, SD, etc.). Think about why bench shooters and long range shooters choose the 165 and 168 grain class bullets when shooting the 308 Win.

Went to the range Sunday and I think I have a Varmint-ready load for my 300WinMag:
125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
73gr AA3100
WLRM Primer

This gave me a 5/16" group. 3 shots making one big hole. I also loaded 74, 75 and 76 grains of AA3100. The 74gr didn't do so well and I didn't have time for the 2 hottest ones.
If I should ever get a chance at some varmint shooting I'll have a load ready. I hope that by that time I'll also have a 223 to shoot because this WinMag load really gets the barrel cooking if you don't take your time between shots.

BTW: The 220gr Nosler Partition was good for a 1" 5-shot group, 3 shots in 1/2" That's using 66gr of RL-22 and WLRM primer. Now I'm ready for big bears too.

I'd use 125 grain Nosler BTs in .30 caliber only in one set of circumstances, when I am loading for an MV in the 2200 - 2500 fps range. This is plenty of gun for game under 150 pounds at ranges under 150 yards.

I did this before there was a BT with Rem 125 varmint bullets for an arthritic friend who simply could not handle more recoil. He killed four or five deer at woods ranges with that load before I lost touch with him.

To my mind, a bullet has to open up to be effective. If you are shooting a 7.62 x 39 or .30-30 without a tube mag or .30 Rem or reducing the velocity to that range for one reason or another, the 125 gr BT is a fine choice.

That said, experienced hunter/reloaders in my area (central Virginia), overwhelmingly go with the 165 BT in .308-.30-06 class rifles. They open up even on chest shots that hit no major bone, and they have the weight to get the job done when they do hit bone. Our deer are not real big and a lot more have been lost to bullets not expanding than have been lost to bullets blowing up.

Lets see, a glorified varmint bullet, or a glorified solid for deer?? Id have to say ...mmmm..NEITHER ONE!!

Paul hit this one on the head, faster is not always better.

I have shot a few deer with the 125 serria sp out of a 06 at about 3100 killed them all just fine. I wouldn't try a Texas heart shot with them. But any broad side shot to the front shoulder lungs kills them just fine.