Based on information from Pete E, I have to apologize for calling Express a troll. It seems he is an adult and does hunt and I have complete faith in Pete's information and his integrity.

Express's seemed to be tripping over his own story and that is often a clue. It wasn't in this case so I hope he accepts this.

I still don't agree with his assesments of the fault that that is what makes life interesting.

Chic,

Thanks for the kind words..I just hate to see two of the "good guys" falling out...especially when its not on the Politics Forum!

Good hunting to you and best of luck to Express on his Moose hunt what ever you use!

Regards

Pete

John the Greek, your post is nonesense. Since when will "slowing down" a bullet that completely penetrated an animal do more internal dammage? Velocity is energy, even if it goes through an animal. The higher the velocity, the higher the hydrostatic (hydrolic) effect on the wound channel and the animal. Your post has no physical or actual experience to back it up. If your post were accurate, we would all be shooting our high stepping cardridges at half throttle, so the bullet barely leaves the barrel, just so we get a larger wound channel and faster kills. If the bullets are fragile, then slowing down the velocity is the right idea. Express is getting exit holes, so slowing down the bullet will do no good. A fast bullet that stays together and exits will ALWAYS do more damage than the same bullet going slower and exiting. It is a simple law of physics and experience. The 7mm with good bullets is hard to beat, due to the velocity and hydrostatic shock it provides. Flinch

You can't have bad performance out of a 7mag. Its nothing but a belted .270 or 30/06,thats clung to by those that can't handle magnum recoil,but need to say they shoot a mag.

I have shot I think 16 Whitetail Deer with my Savage model 110 in 7mm Rem Mag and to this day never had one deer to take even 2 steps after I shot them. And that is at ranges out to 250 yds. I shot one doe in the ass at 220 steps which I'd say is about 220 yds. and it even dropped. I found the bullet in its front shoulder when I skint it. I have 110 percent confidence in my 7mm Rem Mag. Oh, by the way that was shooting factory Remington 150 soft points. But after last deer season I started reloading and I have found a great load, shooting 140 gr. Nosler CT Ballistic Silvertips and 67 grs. of Accurate 3100. That is what I am going to try this year. They shoot great.

I have had much the same experience on Elk with a 7Mag I used to own. However, I won't assume to blame the cartridge or rifle. After several years of not trusting the rifle/cartidge, I learned a bit more about bullet performance and velocities and decided that it was the bullet I was using that caused my problems.
2 Elk in 2 days shot throught the lungs, one twice, one 3 times and they ran off to be tracked. Luckily, there was a bit of a blood trail (very little). One elk went several hundred yards before I caught up with it and put another one in it's head and ended it's suffering. The original 2 shots were dead centered in the lungs from about 125 yards broadside. The second Elk was across a canyon about 400 yards. The first 2 shots were centered in the lungs, the third through the hips as it ran away into the forest. Found several hundred yards down the mountain with very little blood trail.
Both Elk were dead, but the 160 Speer I was using at the time was not up to the performance I expected. None of these bullets expanded and just pencilled through. The lungs had nice, neat little holes through them with very little damage and tiny holes in both sides of the hide.
Funny thing is, after I sold this rifle to my brother, he took it to Canada the next year and shot 2 moose, one shot each and they dropped within a few yards. Factory Remington ammo with no other changes.
For years I thought the cartridge was a POS, but it was me that was the shortcoming in this pairing. I'm quite sure with better bullets it would have worked just fine. However, I never would have regained the confidence in it that I once had, so it had to go.
I fully believe Express's story about the circumstance of his hunt. I find the 7 Mag, as Flinch said, to be very bullet specific. IMHO, the 7 mag is one of those cartridges that is right on the edge of velocity/bullet performance for it's caliber and needs a specific bullet in that diameter to perform properly. I do believe also that slowing down the 7 mag a bit helps a bit in it's performance. I usually would accomplish that by using a heavy-for-caliber bullet like a good 175 grain or use an Xbullet at higher velocities. Just my 2 cent's worth- Sheister

[ 05-10-2003, 06:12: Message edited by: Sheister ]

I have seen a lot of game shot with the 7 mag and Nosler bullets, I mean hundreds..I have never personally seen a Nosler fail and I have not seen the 7 mag fail, if it does then were all in a lot of trouble because it has been the no. 1 cartridge in gun and die sales for a decade or two, the most popular of elk cartridges..I think you can mark it off to bad luck...it can happen to anyone. But the bottom line is the 7 mag is as good as the 30-06, 270 or 300's and Noslers are the bullet by which all the rest are compared to...When someone comes up with a new bullet they will envaribly say "Hey, it outperforms a Nosler", I think not....

I don't own a 7 mag and never have, always thought it basically a glorified .270, but now that is no light praise as the old .270 rates extremely high in my book...and the 7 mag with 175 gr. bullets has to be a little better any way you cut it...

But any caliber must have proper shot placement and good bullet performance....I have seen Noslers make small holes going in, blow the front section off, and make a small hole coming out, BUT I assure you they tore hell out of everything between those two small holes...I have also seen some animals make a lot of tracks when shot properly with 338, 9.3 and 375's..I had an Impala rune near a mile shot through the lungs near the heart with my 375 and a 285 gr. Speer, another with a 250 Barnes X...It just happens from time to time.

I think that Ray is dead right in his assesment of the caliber. The 7 Rem mag is nothing more than a glorified 270--and that is a a great thing! I load mine down a bit-for accuracy-so it really is like a 270. I bought this rifle for the wood--was looking for an -06. What I do fail to understand is why so many think they need magnums. I don't begrudge the choice-but to me, it seem like a waste of powder and unnecessary recoil. (I shoot a lot, and while not very recoil conscious, it does have an effect after awhile) Long live the glorified 270!!!!!Chuck