When I was in my CCW class, they said the only reason to use a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle. That could be said here. Maybe having a pistol will give you those extra few moments to get to your rifle. Way to many scenarios that could happen. I keep a 3"629 in the tent. When I'm hunting with my wife I dont carry a pistol cuz she has her rifle. when alone, I carry the smith or a taurus 450 (45lc). Carry a pistol its your butt you gotta look out for.

BHW
For a backup stay away from those Ultra lights- vicious recoil with heavy loads-which you need to practice with to know your range limitations before your hunt. Get a nice heavy frame revolver of atleast 6" barrel 44 Mag on up! Shoot the heaviest bullet you can accurately place into a 12" circle, fast at 40 yrds double action a must! And you want to shoot bullets that are capable of breaking heavy bone! This is key- becuase you probaly will not kill a Big brown with one shot-you need to incompacitate him for a follow-up shot.

Caliber doesn't matter, just make sure you file the front sight off so it doesn't hurt so badly when the bear shoves it up your @$$!!!

Wyo, I have to agree with your old bush pilot joke; carry either a handgun in any caliber and a tube of KY, or a big can of UDAP spray

take a look at a couple of the posts from AK, and what Leanwolf said

the number of people that can brain a charging bear with a pistol is miniscule compared to the number carrying pistols for reassurance

I've carried a repeating rifle and a big can of UDAP in griz country and will continue to. I own a 629 and love shooting it but can't imagine trusting my life to hitting a charging griz in the brain with it...

All that bear can move awful fast. How big of a target is that brain? I figure I'd be more likely to aggravate him further with a pistol. I don't want to be trying to shoot him while he's chewing as some seem to suggest. Some of you people might be able to use the handgun effectively in these situations, but I 'm not trusting my hide to it. If spraying the beast doesn't work, a rifle is a much better bet.

I gotta comment on that hoary old joke about "... better file down the front sight of your pistol 'cause...." a pistol is totally useless and no one could possibly ever stop a charging griz with one. If one follows that (il)logic, one should never, ever own a handgun for self defense, 'cause we are constantly bombarded by the Gun Grabbers with their "gospel" that "You should never own a gun for self defense, 'cause the bad guy will always take it away from you and use it on you! No ifs, ands, or buts about it!"

Nonsense. I can't find it now, but there was a site -- and it might have been referenced here on A.R. -- about two years ago, of a woman, an Alaska resident, who killed a charging Grizzly, with one shot from her S&W .44 Magnum. I've read other stories of people killing charging Griz with handguns.

Here's one by a person whom I knew, although he's now deceased. He was, when I knew him, a resident of Bakersfield, Calif. He had lived in Alaska after WW II, for 13 years, where he was cruising timber for one of the large lumber companies.

One morning, ( I think he said it was about 1950/'51) he exited his cabin, to go to his firewood stack, for wood. As he neared the stack, a Griz came from around the edge of the stack, straight for him. He reacted by pulling his Colt Govt. Mdl. .45 ACP and shot at the bear eight times, dropping it near his feet.

Of course, at that time, he was using the regular 230 gr. hardball ammo. Obviously, I was not there to witness his feat, but he showed me several pictures of him kneeling beside a large Griz, the stack of firewood in the near background, and he's holding the .45 in his hand. He hit the bear six of eight fired. When I asked him why he used the .45, he kinda laughed and said "'Cause that's all I had."

Lucky shots? Perhaps. But, he used what he had. I might add that he had also been a paratrooper Sgt., with the 101 Div., Airborne. He had two combat jumps in WW II, starting with his first at Normandy, and had fought at the Battle of the Bulge, so he knew a bit about being "calm under fire."

When I'm in bear country and CAN'T carry my rifle, such as doing the myriad camp chores around elk/deer camp, I always have my .41/.44/.45C, on my person. So far, after 50 years plus of hunting and camping, I've not learned how to saw/chop firewood, or cook, or wash dishes, or dip and carry water, with a shotgun or rifle in hand.

I say again, if you wanna carry a handgun in bear country, do so... but practice, a whole lot on small, moving targets.

JMHO. L.W.

[ 11-21-2003, 22:10: Message edited by: Leanwolf ]

I'd say, carry what you can shoot well, and fast, because if you need it, you will need to be good with it. I've seen bears killed with 40's 45's 44's and even one with a 9mm, because they guys knew how to use it, and when they needed it, they shot fast, made the shots count.

I work as a Free Miner in British Columbia, Canada and have a handgun carry permit for remote wilderness areas. Due to the amount of equipment that I sometimes carry I am unable to carry a rifle during alot of my prospecting activities. I carry a S/S Ruger Bisley Vaquero 5.5" barrel 45 Colt loaded with 335gr Cast Performance WFN @ 1200 fps or a Glock 20 10mm 190gr jfp @ 1280 fps. I feel a lot better having either one of these handguns with me at all times than throwing a rock. Also if the Anti-gun Canadian Government see's fit to issue me a handgun permit for pertection against wild animals there has to be something about being able to protect yourself with a handgun.

Okay, all of you pistoleros have convinced me.

Now, can someone tell me where I can get a six shooter in .375 H&H Mag.?

A few years ago, there were two guys somewhere in the Copper Valley (Alaska) looking for brown bears to hunt. The hunter was using bow and arrows, and also carried a .44 Magnum revolver. His partner was supposed to be his backup, and was holding a Winchester "Defender" loaded with slugs, I believe.

The bow hunter shot a bear through the lungs, so they proceeded to track it. However, on their way... somehow they stumbled into a female with a large cub. The bear charged at close range and toppled the hunter, and as the bear cut through his scalp above his forehead, he managed to draw his revolver and kill the bear with a neck shot.

His "backup" and friend saw the bear on top of the hunter, biting away, and he just ran away before the hunter killed the bear. The hunter walked several miles, almost bleeding to death, but survived to tell the story. I have no idea of what happened to his "backup" friend.

[ 11-21-2003, 06:31: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

A couple of years back I was at a gunshop here in town and a guy played his video. He was walking down a trail bowhunting with his girlfriend. they were rolling film while they hiked, all of a sudden you heard a shot and the screen went black. then you heard 2 muffled shots and alot of yelling. He shot a sow brown bear and it fell on the camera, (he dropped the camera when he drew his gun). I guess they played hell with the cubs as they were trying to salvage the hide and skull for F&G. The story is in one of Larry Kanuits books. Hell of a video.

Basically its all practice and being proficient in what you carry. If a 357 is the most you can handle proficiently, then thats what you should be carrying.

I'm sure we all agree that a pistol is not the best bear protection out there but then again a rifle isnt either if you arent proficient with it.Just cuz you have it doesnt mean it will work to kill that bear with 1 shot.

A year ago I'd have answered this a different way... with a different gun. I had a .500 Linebaugh built because I couldn't find a .357 Maximum frame on which to build a .500 Linebaugh Long. The revolver is a Bisley single-action.

Were I to venture forth today and get such a gun, I'd buy the double-action S&W .500 Magnum.

I take words literally so, to me, "backup" means "all else has failed miserably." That's how I take it with "backup pistol." I would use a double-action revolver if I was starting from scratch. As is, I'm taking my .500 Linebaugh as my belly gun when I go bear hunting next year in Alaska. However, I expect that if I need it, "all else has failed miserably." I'm taking my .416 Remington Magnum for hunting. If I need the revolver, I hope my right hand/arm are not damaged -- and I especially hope I have my right thumb intact. Again, these days, I'd recommend a double action. I already have the Linebaugh, though, so that's what I'm taking -- sort of the "ya dance with what brung ya" philosophy. Regardless, as my gunsmith buddy has taught me, "'hope' is not a course of action." Backups fail, or NASA wouldn't have six or seven (or more) redundant systems on everything. I truly believe if I have to use my Linebaugh as "backup," well... I probably won't be in any kind of shape, at that point, to use it anyway.

Whatever gun/chambering you decide upon, I'd give much more thought the the bullet, specifically the contstuction. For me, I'll be taking heavy hardcast lead slugs with wide meplats.

Also, to me, "backup" where a brown bear is concerned, implies that "calm" has come and gone. That is, you've either blown your cover and are being charged or you have wounded the bear with your first shot(s). Either way, you're beyond "calm bear" and now have "adrenaline bear" with which to deal. This pretty much puts you at a serious disadvantage in a number of areas. So, if you equate adrenaline with crack or PCP... well, try to imagine the meanest thing with claws and teeth hyped up on crack or PCP, and there's your "adrenaline bear." I -- "personally" -- would prefer any handgun to no handgun but, given a choice, I wouldn't use a puny .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum, or .454 Casull... obviously, since I had a .500 Linebaugh built.

A final thought: After having my revolver built, for someday hunting a "big Alaska brown bear," I happened to visit the Field Museum in Chicago and stood next to a standing-on-hind-legs, looking-mean, brown bear that was much taller than I am (and I'm 6'5"). I looked at the bear. I thought of my .500 Linebaugh. I looked at the bear. I thought of my .500 Linebaugh. I realized I needed a bigger gun.

It's all about decisions. I've made mine. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with yours.

Take care.

Russ

All, you should read Phil Shoemaker's article "Handguns and Bears" in the June 2003 issue of "Handloader" magazine. It's the most well reasoned, insightful, balanced and logical piece on the subject I've ever run accross. Personally I always carry bear spray as we have a LOT of grizzlies around here. Depending on the time of year and where and what I'm doing I sometimes carry a Ruger Security Six with 180 LBT's. While hunting I NEVER carry a handgun (except packing out meat having no rifle) as a rifle is preferable to a handgun. A DA revolver is preferable to a SA pistol.

The bear/hangun topic generates as much nonsense as the elk-cartridge debate!

A pistol can make a good defense weapon against bears,if you're good enough with a pistol. The key is to be good enough with a pistol.Few people are willing to dedicate the time to shooting a pistol enough. With the .44,.45 and 50 cal. pistols shooting cast bullets,which is what you should load them with. You're already shooting an expanded bullet and cast bullets of proper hardness will exit at nearly any angle on a bear at the ranges you're talking. The .45 colt was used by linebaugh exstensively in africa and routinely dropped elephants and cape buffalo.

For the average person,a double action pistol is best. But since you're going to need to practice alot,a single action is every bit as fast. You'll be damn lucky if you even get three shots off. I personally carry both spray and a firearm. The problem with bear spray, is it's effected by wind and the mountains are constantly windy. So you stand a good chance of wearing the spray yourself.

Bear attacks simply aren't that numerous and the data surrounding survivability with a weapon isn't all that well known. What is known,is human on human attacks with knives. Its well documented that a person within 7 yards of another person with knife,will be able to stab that person in 99% of cases. Its so great,that law enforcement teaches that you're better off running then standing and firing a gun. Now take a bear,it's faster then a human by a large margin,so you could safely conclude that a bear within 30 yards of human,will be able to bite the person before being killed and you should never run from a bear.

What I would like to see is how effective bear spray in combination with a stun gun or tazer would be. The tazer has proven to be more effective then firearms on knifed attacks. Its also well known that low voltage electric fences,work well on detering bears.

No matter what anyone here says you are better off with a pistol. What chance do you have without one? Atleast with a pistol you have some chance at coming out alive.

Its better to have it than wish you did when the sh*t hits the fan.

Plus...if a bear is going to take me down..even if my pistol doesn't save my life..I'll die knowing he is carrying some of my lead around.

[ 11-24-2003, 00:50: Message edited by: KY23 ]