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A little bit of interesting reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

From several personal observations, I have seen in warthogs, shoulder shot [between 100mm and 150 mm of the spine,] with my .375 H&H, 300 gr Nosler partitions, blood [bruising] in the spine. This was evident into the brain, and right down to the hip area.
Well, each to his own opinion.

Great info and studies. My consclusions:
-This explains some DRT shots that woudln't necessarily be expected to accomplish that.
-(Ir)Regardless of any hydrostatic shock effects that might occur, proper bullets and bullet placement are still required.

I think that the late Finn Aagaard had this right: "Game animals die of blood loss. They do not die of hydrostatic shock."

Interesting indeed. While I still subscribe to the blood loss or neurological disruption school of demise, I would guess that the mentioned effects of "hydrostatic shock" are largely dependent on the size / fraility of the victim. i.e. - a relatively small whitetail would be more susceptible to its effect than a large moose, given the same caliber rifle.

I am on a whitetail hunt right now in northern Alabama (sitting with a coffee on McD., as I write this at 6AM). Because of almost constant rain, I am using a stainless steel rifle ....trouble is that it's a 300 RUM - which is ridiculously overpowered for whitetail. I shot a deer 2 days ago with the 300 @ 200 yards; the visceral cavity was MUSH. HYdrostatic pressure HAD to be the cause.

I would think a high velocity bullet hitting a heart with full chambers would rupture arteries throughout the who circulatory system.

I heart shot a wildebeest that resulted in a DRT. Another wildebess that was heart shot ran over 100 yds.

I am open to any Ideas.

The very term is a poor choice .HydroSTATIC shock ? A bullet at 2700 fps is hardly static !
Funny things can happen.While butchering a friends deer ,270 Win into the shoulder, I saw a hole as I sliced hams. Half way through the ham I saw a 1/8" piece of bone .It had gone from shoulder to ham !! Secondary projectiles !

Yes, the term "Hydrostatic" shock is a poor choice, as in physics, "static" refers to something that is stationary.

A better term would be "hydraulic shock", which is very real.

Liquids are basically uncompressable, so if any force is applied to a liquid, that liquid will move away from the source of the force.

Throw a rock in a pond of water. There is a splash as some of the water moves into the air, and there is a ring or small wave of water moving away from the point of impact.

If you throw the rock harder (or faster) there is more force, or energy, and the splash and wave in the ring are bigger.

The same thing happens when a moving object hits animal flesh. The liquid in the tissue cells moves away from the source of the of the blow. If the force transmitted to the liquid is stronger than the cell walls of the tissue, the cell walls break and liquid inside escapes.

In the case of a high velocity bullet hitting animal flesh, there is a tremendous amount of energy that is instantly transferred to that flesh, and the resulting hydraulic pressure within tissue cells, blood vessels, etc. tears them apart creating a wound cavity.

Just like the ring in the pond, a hydraulic shock wave moves through the body of the animal displacing body fluids and damaging body tissue until all of the transferred energy is dissipated.

Because of the elastic properties of many body tissues, once the hydraulic shock wave has passed through the tissues, and the energy has dissipated, much of the original wound cavity shrink as the tissues return back to their original location.

A bullet moving through the flesh of an animal physically tears apart the tissues of the flesh and organs that it hits, bones broken by the bullet become secondary projectiles and create additional damage, AND hydraulic shock in the body liquids ALL contribute to the death of the animal, as does loss of blood.

Clear and consice, thanks.

Excellent post buffybr! I wish a bunch of naysayers that don't believe there is such a thing on other websites I visit and debate this with could understand this principle!

Thanks for that Buffybr. A futher consideration, the instance of tank crews who all died inside the tank after an impact by a 25lb, detonate on impact shell. Note that the projectile did not penetrate the tank. Nothing pierced the crew, and the only visible indications were blood exiting eyes, ears, nose and mouth. A serious case of "hydrolic shock."
On a lighter note, refer to my earlier post,
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/4171018381

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
I would think a high velocity bullet hitting a heart with full chambers would rupture arteries throughout the who circulatory system.

I heart shot a wildebeest that resulted in a DRT. Another wildebess that was heart shot ran over 100 yds.

I am open to any Ideas.

The 2nd wildebeest obviously never read the theory on hydrostatic shock.

First; no animal has ever read or taken cognisance of any writings or theories we have come with, second; wildebeest, all of them, were born sick and only get better with every shot presented, third; wildebeest, all of them, come equipped with self-sealing lungs and have been equipped with them long before self-sealing tires were invented.

And a further consideration, explain the result or reaction when a projectile connects with a 5ltr plastic bottle filled with water?

I think HS occurs but I dont think its a reliable killer or a factor you can rely on to determine an effective load for game. I have seen animals flattened from HS or other obvious hard hits get up and run off after a few seconds. One was a moose I shot in the head with a 500 S&W rifle. I never saw a moose hit the ground so hard. He got back up and ran off although he would have bled out fairly quickly even if I wasnt able to stop him with a shoulder shot from my 41 mag pistol. Another was a Sitka Blacktail deer I shot with a 300 win mag at 360 yards. It was an obvious chest hit which flattened the deer right there. The deer got up and left and was shot by my hunting partner a couple minutes later it appeared to be unijured before he shot it. Turns out my bullet hit the last rib and traveled along the ribs to the front of the chest to the front of the brisket. The bullet never entered the chest. IMHO this deer was flattened by HS and or ft lbs energy but did not die due to the hole being in a non-vital area.

I like the way a bullet through the junction of the neck and chest into the chest polaxes game. I believe it hits a major nerve center there which affects the whole system.

For me a hole through vitals is the most reliable method for putting a game animal in the bag.

For armchair theorists good topics include HS, ft lbs of energy, etc.

For in the field results: put a hole through the animal that results in : 1)rapid blood loss, 2)nervous system collapse, 3)skeletal destruction (usually used on dangerous game before or during #1 and #2).

quote:

For in the field results: put a hole through the animal that results in : 1)rapid blood loss, 1)nervous system collapse, 3)skeletal destruction (usually used on dangerous game before or during #1 and #2).

I don't know if hss is real or not. We've all seen some weird and even unexplainable things in cutting meat. The above strategy can't be beat though.

Dropped in its tracks. Hydrostatic shock?

Video of a Florida buck taken from a tree stand with 20 gauge Federal #2B (18 pellets, .27 caliber, 1100fps ) . At 3.26 on the video, the pellet strike can be clearly seen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDMN4PlcZA

Not having field-dressed the deer, we can't say anything definitive about this particular shot. Looking at the video, I'd guess instead that the spinal cord/middle back was broken, and the perhaps the buckshot took out the liver, the diaphram, and perhaps the back of the lungs.

To my eyes, the shot seems centered somewhat behind the diaphram, and that the huntress was lucky to have a deer that didn't require tracking.

friar

One of the interesting aspects of multiple pellet buckshot hits on light big game is the "poleaxed" effect that seems to happen when around 50% or more of the pellets strike the vitals. - That is with conventional buckshot ammo holding 12 or more total pellets in the load.

Since Alabama opened the late "stalk" season to buckshot use, this "dropped in their tracks" effect is becoming quite common with today's tight patterning small pellet (#2B - 00B)buckshot - particularly when used from thick cover ground and tree stands.

Is this strictly from spinal hits or does the large area of simultaneous impact have anything to do with it?

I have a theory based on just my experiences - Apart from hydrostatic shock and blood loss, animals sometime DRT due to lungs filling with blood almost instantly so they cannot run.

I have noticed this phenomenon when a deer hit by a fast projectile on a chest RIB colapses instantly, kicks a few times and is dead. I have found bone fragments (like coarse sand) in the chest cavity while gutting the animal.
The impact on the rib causes the bullet to mushroom and transfer shock quicker than a flesh hit. But it also created many fragments of bone which rip the lungs in a wider area than the bullet shock (as seen in balistic gel).

I personally believe that such instant laceration of the lungs causes them to fill with blood before it drains into the body cavity. Breathing is shut off instantly & the deer cannot run. It is debatable whether the deer died due to blood in lungs or blood loss. But DRT is a result of lung collapse while a flesh hit may result in the deer running a bit before falling. JMHO.

I have gutted deer killed by such shots and found the lungs to be shreded like rags. I have never see this with deer that were hit between the ribs and ran 10 to 100 yards before falling.

Kevin Robertson's book "The Perfect Shot" addresses this subject very well. He is a veterinarian and hunter, and has some great photos of results of gsw's to animals.

Multiple hits tend to be very lethal.

9mms are considered marginal for killing yet uzis are absolutely lethal.

I still prefer to subscribe to hypovolemic shock myself.

Multiple impacts, yes that sound right.

Here a 20 gauge with #2B (.27 caliber/30 grain)pellets results in a DRT.

This occurs at the 3.28 frame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDMN4PlcZA