Sounds like a great time.

BTW, I certainly hope you would not stoop to use a firearm, especially one with smokeless powder! A knife, held in your teeth while crawling, would be to only acceptable weapon (nothing more than a 4" blade with damascus steel, of course...none of that wimpy stainless).

Anything more and you just ain't a real hunter like me.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
Sounds like a great time.

BTW, I certainly hope you would not stoop to use a firearm, especially one with smokeless powder! A knife, held in your teeth while crawling, would be to only acceptable weapon (nothing more than a 4" blade with damascus steel, of course...none of that wimpy stainless).

Anything more and you just ain't a real hunter like me.

i have a sock with a billiard ball in it that i use on cull does.
the bucks i wrestle to the ground and either break thier neck or bite a chunk out of thier ear if they're less than 10 pointers.


the next texas fair chase deer to make the record books...

OK. I give up, you win. (But that sock better be an old fashioned wool sock and not a pair of your wife's panty hose!).

I admit, you are tougher, meaner, and a much better hunter than I...and probably a more worthy person, also. Feel free to feel superior and make condesending remarks about the way folks in other parts of the country, or even "downstate" SC, chose to hunt. ( I guess you and your pals in "upstate SC" are the only ones who know the "right" way).

However, I am old enough to hunt any way I wish. And if that method doesn't measure up to your standards...I reserve the right to practice my free time and my hobby any way I (legally) please. And I am fully prepared to live with your disdain. (If you think low crawling through the briars makes you a better man than I...feel free to think that way...and I hope you then feel superior and macho)

But if you think that legally requiring anyone who choses to "hunt", use the same techniques that you use...you, sir, will be doing a severe disservice to our mutual passion.

adios

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
OK. I give up, you win. (But that sock better be an old fashioned wool sock and not a pair of your wife's panty hose!).

I admit, you are tougher, meaner, and a much better hunter than I...and probably a more worthy person, also. Feel free to feel superior and make condesending remarks about the way folks in other parts of the country, or even "downstate" SC, chose to hunt. ( I guess you and your pals in "upstate SC" are the only ones who know the "right" way).

However, I am old enough to hunt any way I wish. And if that method doesn't measure up to your standards...I reserve the right to practice my free time and my hobby any way I (legally) please. And I am fully prepared to live with your disdain. (If you think low crawling through the briars makes you a better man than I...feel free to think that way...and I hope you then feel superior and macho)

But if you think that legally requiring anyone who choses to "hunt", use the same techniques that you use...you, sir, will be doing a severe disservice to our mutual passion.

adios

its Ok.
do it while you can. in 5 years those high fences will be down and the deer will, again, become mutual property and not private property.
TX is like feudal Brittan where the game was the property of the lord and if you hunted it you were imprisoned or worse.
Deer are the property of everyone, not the guy with enough money to buy up 60,000 acres and high fence it ot the guy who can afford to grow crops and leave them on the ground to hold deer in a certain area.

and the sock is just like these ...

quote:

do it while you can. in 5 years those high fences will be down and the deer will, again, become mutual property and not private property.

You really don't know much about Texas, do you. If the guvmint tried to take away private property rights in the manner you described, there would be ANOTHER Texas Revolution.

KSTEPHENS,

I hate to bust your bubble, but the high fences in Texas aren't going anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

do it while you can. in 5 years those high fences will be down and the deer will, again, become mutual property and not private property.

You really don't know much about Texas, do you. If the guvmint tried to take away private property rights in the manner you described, there would be ANOTHER Texas Revolution.

do the deer belong to the land owner?
the state?
the people who purchase a licence?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

ya'll are still legally allowed to call it hunting?

Uh, yes we are, it's call freedom of speech. Did ya'll give up that right?

not yet, but we also dont call shooting deer in a pen "hunting"

quote:

In the end, trophy whitetail deer hunting simply comes down to one basic principle: Be in the right place at the right time and make the shot. Typically, being in that magical right spot when deer hunting fate comes calling is simply a byproduct of making a key hunting decision or two along the way.

Never have those words been truer in the state of Texas than they were last fall, when on Sunday, Nov. 4, Sanger bowhunter and part-time taxidermist Jeff Duncan sat perched in a ladder stand at famed Hagerman National Wildlife Refuge. As you might already know, the refuge lies along the southern shores of Lake Texoma in Grayson County -

.

I'd like to ask you, Mr. Stevens, why do you think all deer hunting in Texas is Pen hunting? The Hagerman Wildlife refuge is not fenced in any more than any farm with cattle, or crops. The area is called a refuge because it is entry by permit hunting only, and those who farm inside the refuge are restricted as to what they can grow, or graze on the land, so the natural habitat, is not effected. This is a very large area of very good habitat, of flood plain, and woodland in river bottom, with very good natural food, and I would say it is a lot larger than any farm or ranch you will find in South Carolina, and the deer are not restricted at all in their movement on or off the refuge! These refuges are sorely needed in Texas, because 98% of the 250,000 sq miles of Texas is private property, and thease places are set asside for wildlife, and are not high fenced. The average wildlife management area in Texas are around 1500-1800 acres, and are not fenced at all. Most are river bottom land with very thick woods, and swamp! Certainly not pens by anyone's definition. That is any one who has actually been to one of them.

Let me ask one more question of you, if I may! How many times have you been to the Hagerman Wildlife Refuge, or in fact to the state of Texas at all?

It is true that there are places in Texas, and many other states, including SC, where the game is pened in, but wild life refuges are not in pens,at least in Texas, and most of the private ranches are fenced with nothing more than 5 wire barb wire cattle fence, and many of the ranches are as big as most of the counties in SC, so unless the whole county, where you hunt, has no fences, then you need to find a bigger place to hunt in SC, considering what you rules seem to be.

The whole state of SC will fit in the western most 5 counties of Texas. I'd be willing to bet the place where you hunt deer, is no more than 200 acres. That makes no difference, however, because like in the Hagerman, and deer has only to take one step and he is out of your sight. If you can't see him you can't shoot him! The small low fence ranch I hunt on is 127,000 acres, and the deer certainly do not have tags in their ears, and the average shot will be no more than 200-300 feet, because you can't see farther than that.

Sir, you sound like a kid who has some very lofty ideas about hunting that doesn't exist in most of the USA, and certainly not in the over populated east coast states, where you live. Unlike you I have hunted both places, and many countries around the world, and I know for a fact that what you are spouting is nothing more than day dreams, that mark you as nothing more than a KNOW-IT-ALL, who has a great need to be in the limelight, even if it does make you look foolish! Well, you accomplished your goal, you certainly got people's attention, but not in the way you think!

As the old Indian Chief said about the white man's hunting stories, "BIG WIND COME FROM EMPTY CAVE!"

MacD37 wrote:

quote:

As the old Indian Chief said about the white man's hunting stories, "BIG WIND COME FROM EMPTY CAVE!"

I LOVE it!!! And it perfectly fits the situation here.

i can not agree with your mentality that whatever is allowed is morally and ethically correct.
just because the people who write the laws allow high fencing doesnt make it right.
in the lower part of the state where its flat and the beanfields are plentiful there are a number of hunting preserves that have lobbied to get longer seasons and to allow baiting.
since the state is broken into zones it is legal to do so in those areas only where these preserves are.
this was a decison made purely based on whose pockets got filled.
I see the mentality here as well.
whatever is popular is right?
thats not the way it should be.
compond bows w/ fiber optic sights primative?
muzzleloaders that are accurate to 300 yards with BDC scopes?
just to sell more equipment and tags.
right is right.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
compond bows w/ fiber optic sights primative?
muzzleloaders that are accurate to 300 yards with BDC scopes?
just to sell more equipment and tags.
right is right.

And exactly the same comment could be make about, optical sights, or smokeless powder, or breach-loading firearms, or firearms at all, or bows versus spears, or billiard balls versus rocks.

Who defines what is "right"? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn between fair chase and unfair advantage? You seem to have a very clear idea of what is right and wrong for you, no doubt based on your upbringing and experience. But no matter what techniques and equipment you use, I can point to someone who does it more primitively, who thinks YOU are taking unfair advantage, and bought something from someone who is in business "just to sell more equipment"

I respect your passion for the sport, but I believe you need to think about the issues with a little more objectivity and maturity.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
compond bows w/ fiber optic sights primative?
muzzleloaders that are accurate to 300 yards with BDC scopes?
just to sell more equipment and tags.
right is right.

And exactly the same comment could be make about, optical sights, or smokeless powder, or breach-loading firearms, or firearms at all, or bows versus spears, or billiard balls versus rocks.

Who defines what is "right"? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn between fair chase and unfair advantage? You seem to have a very clear idea of what is right and wrong for you, no doubt based on your upbringing and experience. But no matter what techniques and equipment you use, I can point to someone who does it more primitively, who thinks YOU are taking unfair advantage, and bought something from someone who is in business "just to sell more equipment"

I respect your passion for the sport, but I believe you need to think about the issues with a little more objectivity and maturity.

its not about fair chase. its about someone taking an unfair advantage.
using a compound bow with fiber optic sights carbon fiber arrows and mechanical broad heads along with laser rangefinders during bow season.
THAT is not a primitive weapon.
neither is a TC encore ML with a nikon BDC scope and soboted bullets.
that is a more modern rifle than a lee enfield.
a man should be allowed to use a winchester 92 w/ peep sight sooner that that setup.
and when people go out and take these advantages then kill something huge like that it doesnt bother you?

actually, it would bother me that you would use a peep sight on your M92, which you give you and unfair advantage over a real hunter using the original open sights.

Olarmy,and KStevens, here I must agree with KStevens, on one point. I think, if you think about it, you will too!The point he is makeing, I think is, that the seperate season for the primitive weapons should be for primitive weapons, or replica of same! In many states the muzzloader season is restricted
to flintlock, or percussion cap, replicated as they were made when they were the norm and nothing better was available, and that included the sights that were the norm as well. The first in-line muzzleloaders came online about 25 years ago, and I have hunting boots that qualify as primitive, if 25 yrs is the date needed to make something primitive!

The use of different sights on a cartridge rifle means nothing in that debate, because no special season is set asside for any cartridge rifle, and the use of a MUZZELOADER, with a scope sight, and that is easily the equal to the mod 92, with any sight, is the same thing tecnichniclly, and In my mind doesn't deserve a special season! Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with hunting with an in-line with a scope, it simply doesn't justify a special season, IMO!

The Compound bow, on the other hand doesn't increase the range to any great extent, and though it is not my cup of tea, it is still very limited in it's use, as to haveing to stalk close, and use cammo clothing,and sometimes decoys, and no international orange safety clothing, that is a must, in most states for rifle hunters, or when rifles are in the field. So here there is some justification for a special season, for safety reasons.

Where I disagree with Mr. Stevens is his take on private property! Private property is just that, PRIVATE! To trespass on private property, you must get the permission of the land owner, no matter the reason. If you shoot a deer, and don't put him down before he gets over a property line, then he is lost, unless you get permission to cross his property line to recover the deer. That my friends, is something you will simply have to live with, in the USA. For that reason a fence makes absolutely no difference at all, because even if there was no fence at all, you still can't go on the property without permission, and if the deer corsses into other property, you need permission there too! If the animal crosses into the road right of way, you are still out of luck, because the right of way is a no shoot zone, as well! I suppose in some third world countries, you can force your way into private property, without any problems, but not in the USA. The right to own, and control private property is a right that soldiers fought, and died for! As to the high fence, the game people simply go to the ranch headquarters, and ask to go in to do game surveys, and check hunting license of hunter hunting on their place, and they are not denied. If they were, the check can be done at the access to public roads,from private property, and surveys can be done by airplane. In fact this is the way most surveys are done today, anyway!

This, for the most part is one person wanting to inflict his rules on everyone else, whether it is law or not! THAT, my friends is what is like the old Engalnd rule of law, that allows the few to inflict their rules on the many! It didn't work when they tried to bring that here, and it won't work now. Just like the rancher is not allowed to go into your home, without your permission, you are not allowed to go no their ranch without permission, no matter the reason you want to go there.

Bobby, sounds like you've got some economic interest in which direction this thread goes, otherwise your feelings wouldn't have gotten hurt so easily.

Sounds like you have to have everyone agree with him or else your panties get in a wad.

Your photos offer absolutely no proof of where these deer were or when the photos were taken. (Years ago Sports Afield used a photo of a huge mule deer as representation for one shot that year in Colorado. Since I saved all my SAs at that time I sent them the same photo from a their magazine ten years earlier.)

Don't believe everything you see or read on the Internet, or otherwise. Sorry, but I'm going to go on believing that buck was raised, since I don't know the hunter or the circumstances personally.

MacD: on the point of "you ought to use primitive weapons during a primitive weapons season", I guess I don't ahve strong feelings about that.

Where I take issue with Mr. S. is his apparent belief that "if you don't hunt the same way I do, or you use different techniques or equipment, then you ain't a real man, like me"

With repsect to the private property rights issue, sounds like you and I are on the same page.

quote:

Sorry, but I'm going to go on believing that buck was raised, since I don't know the hunter or the circumstances personally.

If it was taken on the Hagerman it was not the first big non-typical from there and not farm raised either.

Hagerman National Wildlife Refuge

Of course, since I was not along for the hunt I cannot say conclusively...

Kensco-I know where they were taken because I am the one who took the photos. That's good enough for me. If you don't believe what I said, I could care less. (There are plenty of people here who know me and that my word is gospel.)

What I don't care for are the continued cheap shots taken at Texas hunting.

And no, I don't have an "economic interest" as my land is strictly for me and my family. It has never been leased and will never be leased as long as I am alive.

And it isn't under high fence, either.

Kensco wrote:

quote:

Sorry, but I'm going to go on believing that buck was raised, since I don't know the hunter or the circumstances personally.

What does it take to get through to you people? NWR. No high fence. Fair chase bowhunting.

It's plain and simple for anyone with an iota of common sense and reasoning ability.

Call Hagerman yourself if you want to. Talk to the biologists there.

Nice socks!!!!!!!

I think I had this discussion last year.I wasnt bored enough till after hunting season was over, though.

TX fair chase includeds man made waterholes, corn feeders, 100 acres plots of LabLab pretty much anything.
how long till you guys stake a live estrus doe to a pole and use her for bait?

quote:

how long till you guys stake a live estrus doe to a pole and use her for bait?

Now there is an idea! I wonder if it would work with elk? Yeah!

KS: just read something on another forum that seems purty apropos:

"... it is obvious that you don't like feeders, permanent stands/houses and the people who use them. You made your point with the sly digs and everybody knows it. Why keep harping on it? What good does it do you to low rate anybody who hunts legal ways where they are and the way they want to do it?

Is there some school yard need to somehow prove mine is bigger than yours? What possible harm does it do you how anybody else hunts? You don't like to do it their way, fine; don't do it. But there is no call to keep picking at it. Do you have some need to prove you are bigger, meaner, tougher and smarter than anybody?

You want to dress in a loin cloth, hold a stone knife in your teeth and drop on a deer's neck out of a tree that's fine. Still don't make you no better than anybody else, much as you might want it to.

Hunting now days is for fun ninety-nine times out of a hundred. Everybody gets their fun in different ways. Me, you or anybody else has no call to tell another man how to get what he is after as long as what he is doing is legal where he is. No reason to try to make somebody feel bad about the way they want to legal hunt.

Just think on it some."

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
KS: just read something on another forum that seems purty apropos:

"... it is obvious that you don't like feeders, permanent stands/houses and the people who use them. You made your point with the sly digs and everybody knows it. Why keep harping on it? What good does it do you to low rate anybody who hunts legal ways where they are and the way they want to do it?

Is there some school yard need to somehow prove mine is bigger than yours? What possible harm does it do you how anybody else hunts? You don't like to do it their way, fine; don't do it. But there is no call to keep picking at it. Do you have some need to prove you are bigger, meaner, tougher and smarter than anybody?

You want to dress in a loin cloth, hold a stone knife in your teeth and drop on a deer's neck out of a tree that's fine. Still don't make you no better than anybody else, much as you might want it to.

Hunting now days is for fun ninety-nine times out of a hundred. Everybody gets their fun in different ways. Me, you or anybody else has no call to tell another man how to get what he is after as long as what he is doing is legal where he is. No reason to try to make somebody feel bad about the way they want to legal hunt.

Just think on it some."

coming from a texan that is hilarious.

you guys refined the "mine is bigger" game.
isnt that all youve tallked about.
texas is soo big.
the deer are sooobig...

im saying you need to draw the line at what is hunting and what is not.
people shooting deer in high fence
people shooting deer over feeders
people shooting deer in huge food plots of chufa
people shooting deer from 40 foot elevated blinds
people shooting deer from 500 yards away

these are not hunting no matter what you may want to call it.

it gives real hunters a bad name to be associated with that "sport".

fair enough. At least we know where you stand. And we can have our own opinion as to whether we think your opinion has any validity.

Without going into the background, this thread brings to mind a favorite quote of mine.....
To the extent your position has any merit, it has been fully considered and rejected.

That's a fine, fine animal taken in a very fair chase.

KSTEPHENS,

In SC, do you hunt under or within sight of oak trees during the early fall? If you do, then you sir are a hypocrite because fresh acorns hitting the ground are a more powerful attractant for Whitetail Deer than any 100 lb. pile of corn. I have seen countless deer step over corn to eat acorns.

quote:

im saying you need to draw the line at what is hunting and what is not.
people shooting deer in high fence

I shoot my on low fence property


people shooting deer over feeders


Never shot a deer "over" a feeder although that sounds pretty sporting.


people shooting deer in huge food plots of chufa


I prefer oat patches



people shooting deer from 40 foot elevated blinds


The tallest blind I have is 20 feet


people shooting deer from 500 yards away



I don't need to shoot that far being in an elevated blind and over an oat patch.

So damn, by your definition I am a "real" hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
KS: just read something on another forum that seems purty apropos:

"... it is obvious that you don't like feeders, permanent stands/houses and the people who use them. You made your point with the sly digs and everybody knows it. Why keep harping on it? What good does it do you to low rate anybody who hunts legal ways where they are and the way they want to do it?

Is there some school yard need to somehow prove mine is bigger than yours? What possible harm does it do you how anybody else hunts? You don't like to do it their way, fine; don't do it. But there is no call to keep picking at it. Do you have some need to prove you are bigger, meaner, tougher and smarter than anybody?

You want to dress in a loin cloth, hold a stone knife in your teeth and drop on a deer's neck out of a tree that's fine. Still don't make you no better than anybody else, much as you might want it to.

Hunting now days is for fun ninety-nine times out of a hundred. Everybody gets their fun in different ways. Me, you or anybody else has no call to tell another man how to get what he is after as long as what he is doing is legal where he is. No reason to try to make somebody feel bad about the way they want to legal hunt.

Just think on it some."

coming from a texan that is hilarious.

This has been his bitch all along. He simply hates Texas, and Texans, and I'd bet my next retirement check, that he has never even been out of the state of SC, much less to Texas. I would bet there are far more high stands , and feeders, along with red necked spotlighters, in SC, than there are in Texas.

The fact, IMO, is this is a enter-net hunter, trying to tell everyone else in the world how it is done properly. I doubt this guy is over 20 yrs old,and has never seen a real trophy deer or anything else, outside a magazine! Hell, my youngest son has hunting boots that are older than 20 yrs old! I'm 71 yrs old, and have been listening to these know-it-alls all my life. To the man, they all have a great need to force their ideas on others to the point of makeing people want to slap the crap out of them, and tell them to shut the f**k up!

I doubt this guy would be so costic, face to face, because he's nothing more than a sniper hideing behind a key board. I don't hunt over feeders, or from fully furnished cabins on a tower, but I don't tell others not to. For some reason this guy thinks his opinion, is the ONLY opinion, that counts! He is wrong, however! Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one, but some, like this guy, not only have a$$hole opinions but are A$$holes as well!

I have no problem with his brand of hunting, and agree with him on some things, but it isn't up to me, or him, to tell all hunters our rules, because they have their own rules, regardless if Mr.Stevens knows it or not! The game departments set the rules, and the hunter hunts within them, and as long as that is done, he has no bitch coming! Because something is legal, doesn't mean you have to do it, but it does mean, you have to allow others to use them if they see fit.

A lot is shown of his ethics,and what he finds important, with the avitars he chooses to use, on this forum , while saying someone else has a bigger than your's syndrome. The one here today, is makeing a real connection he has with hunting, and sex, the sign of a pimple faced teenager.

I would dearly love to buy Mr. Stevens, for what he is worth, and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth! I could hunt Africa's Big five for the rest of my life, and not go broke on the profit!
..................... BYE!

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
thats a dog ass ugly rack.
bunch of points or not, i'd take a tall wide 8-10 pointer over that bugger anyday.
but thats my preference.

Like this? . . . oh yea, this is a Texas deer too! On 88 acres . . . low fence . . . 40 minutes from Fort Worth . . . with no ear tag.



But he would be safe in your world since there's a feeder in the photo.

JDS

One thing about Texas is that you can get about any kind of hunt you want from Javalina to elk on high or low fenced ranches..

You want a low fenced hunt on 50,000 to 500,000 acres for Elk, Bison, Whitetail, Coues deer, or Mule Deer. I can give you that. Those ranches are available..You want to hunt Mule deer on big ranches that are low fenced and have Mule deer that can go over 200 B&C, Texas has some of those and I can give you that...

Texas is not all high fenced deer hunts, its a big state and about anything one wants is available..

Sounds like to me that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing applies here.

quote:

I would dearly love to buy Mr. Stevens, for what he is worth, and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth! I could hunt Africa's Big five for the rest of my life, and not go broke on the profit!