A customer failed to pay the second installment on a nice part finished custom my smith has that has the bolt face and action modified for a magnum.

Aha thinks I maybe I'll have it for a longer range rifle. I look at the books for a faster way of launching 125-140gr bullets for deer.

And come away with the fact that unless I go 257Wby or 7mm STW (and I don't want to go that extreme)it's extremely hard to meaningfully improve on the old 270....which seeing as I can get to 150fps with a 7x57 and 139gr makes the exercise rather pointless!

Am I wrong?

I am in total agreement with you, unless one shoots a 175 gr. bullet the 7 mags have nothing over the old .270, O'Connor knew this years ago and expressed it many times...even then the difference is minimal.

I doubt that for a good long range deer rifle that a 270 can be beat, some are just as good but none better..I have shot deer and elk with it and it always served me well if I did my part, and I have rolled some really good bucks at very long range with it and that is its fort.

1894: You might consider the .264 Winchester, which is enjoying a bit of a resurgence these days. I would recommend a 26 inch barrel, which would give you about 3400 fps with a 120-125 grain bullet. You are right, however, in your premise that it's truly tough to beat the old .270 WCF. I have both a .264 and a .270 in virtually identical Sakos, and in practical terms one is as good as the other for long range deer.

Since the bolt face is already opened up for a magnum why not the first Weatherby the 270WM. Depending on the numbers you believe you can get 100- 300 fps more especially in the heavier bullets provided your willing to shoot a 26" barrel.

1894, you probably want to use this "screamer" abroad, yes?? I REALLY like the .270 Win, but as sad as it to admit, it is actually a tad fast for your roe on the home range. It will work just great, but you will get a bit of bloodshot meat. Maybe you were planning a screamer for hunting somewhere else, or maybe this was for those "long-range" roe in the middle of the field with no stalking cover?? In either case any of the .270s would work great. Just be aware that the combination "close roe/.270" is not necessarily ideal. Stay with the 7x57 with a heavier bullet for that application.
- mike

How common/available is the 160grn bullet in .270?

That might add a touch more versitility...Also remember if you really like the rifle and the price is right, there is no reason why you could notload it down to 6.5x55 performance if the situation required....

Regards,

Pete

Stonecreek,

264WM and 6.5x68 were the first that I looked at but the data was for 24" barrels which may explain the difference. 300fps is a meaningful increase IMHO

MHO

It was more investigation than anything else. I agree with the close roe/270 point. In fact I generaly use my 6mm rem with 90gr on these which is as flat as a 25-06 and 100gr. Any further than that and I'll pass.

If I need a bigger bullet I'll have a bigger target - my 7x57 is no slouch with 139s and I'm (overly) familiar with it so I'm saving the money for hunting!

More than a few people buying a 264 Winny hoping for 3400 fps with a 140 grain bullet have been disappointed...and by quite a bit. The original Winchester sales ads took, shall we say, "editorial license..."

Stonecreek,

I have been a devoted .264 shooter since 1965 and recently used one in RSA, shooting the 140-gr. factory load, to kill 10 critters. Below is short excerpt from THE RIFLE chapter of my book on Coues deer hunting that applies to your .264/.270 comment. -TONY

*****
I was quite surprised a few months ago while running some ballistic charts for our hunt in unit 36B during the December 2002 season. The data revealed that my son�s .270 Win., shooting a 130-grain bullet, had nearly the identical velocities and trajectory out to 500 yards as my .264 showed with 140-grain bullets. The only slight differences were the foot-pounds of energy at similar ranges. Yet I doubt a deer would notice; dead is dead, and a bullet with a few more pounds of energy won�t make much difference.

Big magnum cartridges also come at a price. A box of 20 factory rounds will usually set you back between $25 and $35. Some, such as the Weatherby loads, are even more costly. Handloading helps with cost but still has downsides. The cases often require 35 to 50 percent more powder to fill them, and because of the additional pressure, the magnum brass wears out quicker. Then on top of that, these hot magnums sometimes tend to wear out barrel throats prematurely, which was the knock on my .264 Win. Mag.

1894;
With the bolt face already opened up for a Magnum, sounds like a well suited platform for a 270WSM.
If you really want send 125 to 140gr bullets down range at high velocities.
3300+fps is not uncommon with handloads.

Stonecreek,

Pretty ironic. My M70 is also the first and only .264 I owned and is 38 years old. BUT...it does look a bit different in the 2003 configuration. After getting beat up in a saddle scabbard on numerous horseback hunts and over three years of horseback guiding in CO, I had Robar, INC. do a refurb on it with a satin silver NP3 finish and synthetic McMillan stock (see it below).

Like you, I have shot the heck out of it for years and have killed everything from several AZ javelina to a 60" BC moose with it. In between were several pronghorns, three caribou, two black bears, 10 elk, a few exotics and more white and mule deer than I can count.

At one point in the 1970s, I even used it to shoot silhouette matches in Tucson, loading Hornady's 160-gr. roundnose bullets for those matches. On any given Sunday over two years, I usually put somewhere between 75 and 150 round through that rifle.

Before I quit handloading, I loaded nothing but either Sierra or Hornady 140-gr BTs for it, which are the same bullets I used on all of the game animals.

When I was in Africa this past June, I started the trip using my .300 Win. Mag on a gemsbok. The shot didn't go exactly where I had aimed, so I had to shoot a followup, which isn't something I normally require. I decided to put that gun down and go to the one that fits like the proverbial ol' shoe. From then on out, one shot kills on the other critters was the norm. When I hit the blue wildebeest at 175 yards, he dropped like someone had cut off all four legs at once and never moved again. The bullet entered from the front, just a bit right of center and stopped against the hide near the base of the tail.

My PH was amazed by it. As we were walking up to the downed beestie, the PH stuck out his hands and said, "Look at me; I'm shaking. I've never seen a wildebeest drop like that and not twitch a hair." -TONY



[ 12-09-2003, 00:21: Message edited by: Outdoor Writer ]

The 270 Winnie in my opinion is most likely the best long range all around deer rifle ever made. they are flat shooting low recoil it just don't get much better than that.

The .270 WCF is probably the biggest hurdle to my getting excited about the new short "magnums." If you really know this cartridge and of what she's truly capable, your reaction to so, so many other cartridges is likely: "So, what?"

Plain vanilla, maybe. But, also, plain good, plain works, plain dead, etc., etc.

RSY

I shot a 270 WCF for years, great round. It's all you will ever need for deer if you are satisfied with what it does well, shoot relatively flat, and kill deer size game. Someone mentioned recoil of the 7 mag verses the 270, no question the 7 mag will kick more. But, depending on your rifle, the 7 mag will not kick any more noticable than a 30-06, if you can handle that cartridge. But what I am leading up to here is it also really depends on your rifle, it's weight, stock type, recoil pad, etc as to just how punishing that ole rifle of yours will be. A few months ago, one of my brother in law's purchased a left handed Savage hunter's package, with a Simmon's scope on it. We went to our property to get it sighted in for Id mule deer hunting, and he started complaining about how hard it kicked. He had me go ahead and shoot a group, and I also noticed it was kicking extreamely hard for a 30-06. I was also shooting my Model 700 left handed Remington in 7 mag, and frankly, my 7 mag "felt or perceived" recoil was less than his Savage 30-06. I attribute it to the fact his rifle was ligher than mine, and did not have a good Pachmyer decellerator pad on it like I did. Frankly, my 7 mag was alot more comfortable to shoot than his 30-06 was. This isnt intended to flame anyone's rifle, just trying to make the point that there are ways to minimize the recoil on rifles. I moved to the 7 mag over the 270 because I wanted the greater flexibiltiy it offered with the larger bullets. I also believe in velosity, everyone has his own view on this, but bullet selection is critical. I made one mistake with the BT about 2 years ago, and have since moved on to the scirocco, and will probably settle in on partitions or X bullets with the 7 mag. Do I to date use the heavier bullets, no, so Ray your words arent lost upon me, but I still like the 7 mag's capability, and flexibility. Apparently many others feel the same way. Personally, I would love to have a 270 wby mag or a 270 WSM (as a mule deer hunter), but then, if the 270 WCF gets it all done why bother purchasing Winchester's new offering? Which is I believe what alot of us have been saying. That was a big circle wasnt it?

It seems to be one of those "hate it or love it" calibers and l'm just surprised that you have not had any negative comments yet on this thread.

I load Partition bullets in my 270 and have used it for game the size of deer to moose. It has never let me down and l plan to continue using it as my main big game rifle. What is the old saying "if it ain't broke why ....."?

Good luck!!!

My friend Mark Dobrenski calls the 270 "The 30-06 Improved"... I like that!

The last time I looked the largest typical elk in Montana was still the one killed by my friend Fred Mercer. He killed it with, yup you guessed it, the 270 Winchester. He had a Weaver K4 scope atop his Pre-64 model 70 and considered it a legitimate 200 yard plus setup. He is the reason more so than Jack O'Connor that I now have a pre-64 model 70 in 270. The 270 is as american as apple pie.

I have no use for the .270. It is okay for open country deer hunting. The problem is using it in the brush country. With the 130 grain bullet rarely do you get an exit. I have seen more deer lost with a .270 due to no blood trail. The 7mm's and the 30 calibers rule the roost.

Speaking of no exit, a good friend of mine shot a 150 lb doe with his 270 at about 50 feet. Right in the chest using winchester supreme 130 gr silvertip. He said that it just dropped, and didn't even twitch. No exit wound. The heart and lungs were liquefied.

I hadn't used my wife's old Sears M-53 ( a push feed Winchester copy) in a number of years, so I dusted it off and carried it to Wyoming this year for a pronghorn hunt. I managed to kill a decent buck at 296 yards using Hornady Interbond 130 grain factory loads. After enjoying that hunt with a rifle much lighter and easier kicking than my 300 Win mag I decided to carry the old 270 to Kansas this year and see if I could fill some doe tags and my freezer. On the second day of the hunt a group of 4 does came across a big CRP field straight to my location. When they got to about 50 yards I dropped the first one with neck shot, shot the second one trotting away at about 125 yards and killed the third one standing, but quartering away, at a bit over 200 yards. All three deer fell virtually in their tracks, all three were killed with the same 130 grain loads and all three shots exited. What more could you want in a deer gun?

Perry

Perry,

You need to quit hitting them in the right spot so you have to track them. That's what those exit wounds are for!! Get with the program. -TONY