Hello the campfire:
As I was getting the dogs out and geting ready to come to the office this AM, I had the TV on the Outdoor Channel. An NRA show was on with a segment about SKS's. The person talking about the rifles said this in sum and substance:
"A lot of guys get these rifles to hunt deer with because they are inexpensive."
That was not a direct quote but is my recollection of the words spoken.
I have a REAL PROBLEM with this as I do not consider the SKS adequate for ethical deer hunting. I am surprised that NRA would not edit this better.
Am I wrong?
I believe that you can obtain a real deer rifle, used, and in good condition for the same price that you can but a SKS worth having.
I have not problem with owening a SKS of any sort. This is not a rant against the rifle as such.
They are a fun shoot. Cheap the feed. Not the accuritcy I want in a working rifle, but thats just me.
I worry that an average non-hunter will think, gee I can get one of those and hunt deer and look like Rambo- Not that I have anything against Rambo either.
What do you all think?
Judge Sharpe

The SKS fires the 7.62x39 round; commercial ammunition, such as that loaded by Remington at one time, generated ballistics similar to the .30-30 Winchester.

No one would argue that the .30-30 Winchester was an inadequate round, so why not the 7.62x39, which by the way, is widely used by hunters in Russia and the former Soviet republics on all sorts of game, from roe deer to boar to maral stag.

As for accuracy, how much accuracy do you need to hunt deer in the woods, where shots are often taken at 75yds. or less?

FWIW, I only met one fellow who used an SKS; he lived in the Ozarks of Missouri, and he took a lot of deer and boar with that gun.

George
P.S. I had a Chinese SKS at one time, and it would put all 10 rounds in its magazine into a 4" circle at 100yds. with Chinese FMJ ammo and a POS Chinese 4x scope. 50yd. groups were under 2". Who knows how well it might have shot with commercial ammo, or handloads?

quote:

"A lot of guys get these rifles to hunt deer with because they are inexpensive."

rest assured that if they was $650 they wouldn't sell at all.....it's true that they're bought because they are cheap.....and I believe a lot of guys use the excuse that they're a "thrifty" deer hunting machine when in fact I believe is simply the "Rambo" look they're after.

A helluvalotta Colt clones in .45 Colt are sold simply to fit the image of "Hopalong Cassidy"...or someone of that era.

So far in my years of hunting I've never seen one of these in the hunting environment. In most states they are legal given some magazine restrictions and whether we like it or not we must tolerate them.

Re: the NRA...we and they must remember that the role of NRA has nothing to do with hunting and they should soft pedal this approach. WE/they must focus on the right to keep and bear arms and in that light to also push for behavior norms and not equipment issues.

Like you, I have no love, desire, wish or any kind of hankering for a rifle of this style. However in the fight for the right to keep and bear arms we need to cometogether and support those that like them.

QWe all need to remember what the focus is!!!

I am not a fan of the SKS or for that matter chinese Semi auto AK 47s but they are more than adequate for deer. If the 30-30 is acceptable than the 7.62X39 is as well.

There are a lot of SKS hunters in my area, most of the rifles are crap,but like everything else there are exceptions. I have seen 5 or 6 out of about 20 rifles that would sight in none of the others would. I prefer the 30-30 for accuracy, however a ballistic tip in the 7.62x39 can do okay. I will say many of my younger hunters love the lack of Recoil. This rifle has helped many youngsters ,to afford a centerfire and get introduced into our wonderful sport, as usual the NRA is on the money .

vapodog, I am waiting, but you are always right it seems--from my view--ditto the 'dog' for me!

You can always find errors on tv shows .There are so many people involved most of whom don't know anything about firearms.

I stand corrected. I freely admit that I do not know much about the SKS but had the (I find now ) erronious idea that they were not a suitable deer rifle. As I said, I have nothing against the SKS except that I was under the mis- apprehention tha they were under powered for the job, and that they were not accurate enough to humainly harvest deer.
I humbly applogize to the SKS fans I offended, and to NRA whom I seem to have slandered although I have supported them for th last 50 years. I thought I saw a problem that I now have been told does not exist. Knowing the NRA does not place its primary focus on hunting, I thought tha the expert, who's name I did not get, should have phrased his comments better. I still feel tha the SKS is not a firearm of choice to hunt deer with but but that is my own humble opinion and again I appologise to the members and the administrators of this board for my mistake.
Judge Sharpe

Judge.....you certainly don't owe me an apology.....and after reading all the replies I don't see one due to anyone else either.

Personally I could give a S--- if the SKS and the AK47 all blew to kingdom come.....but we must draw the line on the right to keep and bear arms.

There's an old quote and I'll ask for help to get it right...I believe this came from WWII

they came for_______ and it was not me so I did nothing, Then they came for _______ and that too was not me and I sat silent. Then they came for _______ and again I sat without comment. Then they came for me and there was no one left to help me.

Lot of people use them here in WV. Most are too poor to buy a high quality deer rifle after buying a $6,000.00 four wheeler.

They do make a good knock around rifle for folks that just want to take some venison and don't care that the rifle looks like it was manufactured with a chisel and a file.

It's hardly anything fancy, and while there are plenty of other options, an SKS will work on deer at reasonable ranges, I'm sure, though I've never shot one with mine. Where I live, rifles are a no-no for deer anyway. That said, neighboring states have no such absolute restrictions, and so my SKS had the factory 10 round mag removed and replaced with a fixed 5 rounder, which is hunting legal around these parts.

I look at it this way:

A) Is it a legal deer rifle?---In Idaho-Yes. (Following capacity guidelines of course)
B) Would I deer hunt with one?---No.
C) Should others be allowed to hunt with them?---Yes. (I believe fully in freedom of choice.)
D) Would I encourage someone to do so?---No.

IV

A dam fine moose/deer/caribou chasing Dog rifle

Handloaded ammo in one shoots and preforms very well on deer. In Canada, the Inuit, that I hunted with, laugheda and joked about all the big magnums that were brought into camp to take caribou. My guide who became a good friend, told me that the biggest rifle he or anyone in his family uses is .223! And they shoot everything with it.

I have always felt it's not the gun but the shooter.

JudgeSharpe
I have killed 2 whitetail deer with the 7.62x39.
I used Hansen 123 gr Soft point. The shots were at @ 75 and @ 85 yards. The deer were dispatched as quickly as if I had shot them with a 308, or a 300 Mag for that matter.
The rifle.... an AK-47 [semi-auto].
I also have had a SKS, which I will add was much more accurate than the AK.
I have also killed javilina and turkeys with an AR-15, deer and antelope with a H&K 91.
A rifle is a rifle.

My 'huntin uncle' used an SKS for many years, and I wathced him take two deer with it cleanly, and humanely. Both were about 150 lbs, and close, 75 yards and 125 yards. Now he hunts with a .300 WM. I have seen him miss three deer in the last few years. All were under 250 yards.

I personally have killed a deer with a 9mm rifle. Did it work? Yes, very well. BUT BUT BUT, he was skinny, and really close, and holding still. And no, I don't suggest trying this at any range past 50 yards hell, make it 30.

Terminal ballistics can be argued on paper, but really, even the diminutive short russian case was designed to be lethal on a 150 lb human at 300 meters. I believe when use properly, at modest ranges, and expanding bullets, it can easily be used to take out a vegetarian quadraped.

The rifle itself isn't the ethical question, it's about the person pulling the trigger. It's about responsibility for your actions. If you know you are carrying a pea-shooter, make sure you can see the whites of his eyes...

I have a sporter SKS that puts them into 2 in at 100 plenty good for woods deer. I know of several familys who don't have much money who brought them at around 80 dollars for the kids frist deer rifle. Is it much diffearnt then my day buying be a full mil 03-A3 for 30 way back when..

I would say it is better because the 03 kick the snot out of me and I was afraid to shoot it.

Used properly as with any rifle the SKS will make a find eer gun.

Judge,
No need to apoligize. This point has be raised several times by the anti's, and I have had to defend the SKS several times to other hunters. My brother has taken a couple of deer with his. I have a couple boxes of soft points, and would feel confident using them out to 100 yards. However, I always find a better choice when I head out hunting.

It pains me to admit this, but 11 years ago I took an SKS in trade. It was much more accurate than I expected and easy to tote, so I took it to deer camp that year as a back up gun. One morning I was just going to slip around in the woods near camp and decided to take the carbine. Wouldn't you know I ended up killing a 140ish buck that morning. It was a chip shot at about 30 yards, but the deer hit the ground dead where he stood. Last year I purchased a CZ 7.62X39 carbine for my 12 year old daughter to hunt exotics and our small Oklahoma deer. The rifle will shoot sub 2 inch 100 yard groups and is very handy in a ground blind. Her blind is 50 yards from a well used creek crossing on our lease. She didn't get a shot with it last season, but I carried it one day while stalking around the lease and managed to fill both my buck and doe tags in one morning. The doe was killed with a 110 yard heart shot and ran only 25 yards leaving a "blind man" blood trail and the buck was a cull and taken with a 60 yard shot through the neck as he was trotting broadside to me. The ammo was Wolf brand soft points and seemed to give good expansion and killing effect. It would not be my primary hunting rifle in either configuation, but for a smaller statured, recoil sensitive shooter who still wanted 30 caliber holes in their game I think the round is certainly adequate for average sized whitetail deer out to 200 yards. Besides you can practice for pennies with a centerfire rifle.

Perry

Judge, I'm going to agree with your original post. While the SKS may very well be a reliable rifle to use while hunting, the public's general opinion of such a weapon is not one that corresponds to hunting. I would have the same worry as you, "I worry that an average non-hunter will think, gee I can get one of those and hunt deer and look like Rambo" An experienced hunter would buy an SKS for practical reasons, but for a non-hunter to buy one based on "badass looks," as was your original concern, I agree that it would be a potential problem.

I own an SKS and believe that given its intended use, it is better designed than most commercial rifles. I do not shoot it much because it is not accurate enough to be interesting, but it was designed to use on man-sized targets at relatively close range.

It is intended for use by peasants (chrome lined barrel, stainless bolt and carrier).
It has relatively low recoil and is powerful enough to stop the target.

It is also cheap to manufacture. While the Chinese do not pay much for labor or tooling, I do not see many oriental knockoffs of the AR-15 for anywhere close to the price of an SKS.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you all will) but didnt clinton ban the importation of chinise sks'? The only ones I've seen recently is the romanian variant. Not that that it has anything to do with the scope of this thread.

actually this is an interesting thread because a madman in Wisconsin killed a bunch of fellow hunters with an sks last november. I'm suprised there is not a big push to get rid of the gun for hunting, after all, it is the guns fault. In fact, maybe we should all hunt with single shots from now on. I actually dont care what the next guy hunts with. We all hunt for our own reasons and I think in a free country you should be able to use what ever makes you happy. an sks is by no means unethical and as gun owners and sportsman, we need to stand together for gun rights. Dont fall prey to the left when they put a label on a gun and say it's bad. A good shooter with an sks will take more game than an average shooter with a sporting rifle.

Nope, ATF regs list the SKS and original military variants in its unaltered state as a Curio and Relic.

I have to agree with the judge on this one. The SKS is a fun gun to shoot and definately a good hog gun. But counting on a deer to be within 75yds and praying for accuracy when hunting deer is not wise. Most shots I've made deer hunting have been 200+ yds. However, most hog shots have been under 25yds, and the sks is cheap to feed. I saw my uncle wear a coyote out with an sks last spring, it wasn't pretty.
I've killed a lot of deer with the 30-30 but my winchester is much more accurate than a $100 chinese made sks. When I was in the gun business I discouraged their use as a deer rifle. I would often get asked how to accurize them but I felt there was only so much that could be done with them and your best bet was to go with a bolt action rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Stroud.Is.Loud:
Judge, I'm going to agree with your original post. While the SKS may very well be a reliable rifle to use while hunting, the public's general opinion of such a weapon is not one that corresponds to hunting. I would have the same worry as you, "I worry that an average non-hunter will think, gee I can get one of those and hunt deer and look like Rambo" An experienced hunter would buy an SKS for practical reasons, but for a non-hunter to buy one based on "badass looks," as was your original concern, I agree that it would be a potential problem.

Hmmm, when I hunt I want to look like a tree, not Rambo. And this cartridge is definately adequate. As for a later post stating that you can't count on deer being within 75 yards.....have you ever hunted with a recurve like I do? It's called hunting not shooting for a reason. I have made as many shots over 200 yards as under 100 yards but it really depends on the weapon in hand as to how you hunt. Get as close as you can and what's the problem. I don't think anyone interested in longrange hunting would use one. (another can of worms...I think if you are marksman enough and have the money for equipment and time to learn it, go for it).

"Nope, ATF regs list the SKS and original military variants in its unaltered state as a Curio and Relic."
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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEIB-GB.pdf ------------SEE PAGE 6----------
The way I read it, the chinese sks is no longer imported. Just because something is on the C&R list dosent mean it is still imported.