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It is unfortunate the number of partcipants in our sport who are simply ignorant of facts or there entire information set is based on old wives tales or rumors. I was at our local public range practicing on prone sooting over my day pack for my hopeful up coming MT antelope hunt (drawing is Monday). I was working with my 270 and 308. When asked what I was shooting by the Range Saftey Officer and what I was practicing for I told him and that I hadn't decided which rifle to use yet. He said "Well you should probaly use the 270 because it is better to become accustomed to 1 rifle because...(are you ready for this)... it is illegal to hunt elk with a 308 Win in MT." I felt the best response was no response... Oh the silly things we here from "experts at the range and behind the gun counter." Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Behind the gun counter I actualy heard the salesman say a Gock was used bu the Austrian army to sharpen knives. Although you could hone a knife quite easily, I thought the idea behind the teflon coating was to help reduce metal to metal wear. John | |||
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Oh I forgot the the other one I heard last week. Alaskan guides use 243s as their brown bear gun cause they shoot them in the head and they like the shock caused by the high velocity bullet. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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From a clerk: Hey, come back here and put that back together. That was after I field stripped a weapon at Wally World and was walking off. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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I agree w/ dat Kalefornian "range master". A 222 w/ a 50g SXT x'd by 21.5g of IMR 4198 to the head works much better than a three-o-eight on on an elk.  | |||
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I HAVE a couple fo friends who have gunshops and have helped them out over the years... some of the things you hear make you wonder if just anyone really should be allowed to have a firearm. One of the most amazing was the guy who walked in looking for "ammo for my deer rifle" There are about 300 boxes of various calibers behind me. WHAT CALIBER? "my deer rifle" I KNOW BUT I NEED A CALIBER" "you know its a deer rifle, you use it for hunting deer." NO, YOU NEED TO TELL ME THE CALIBER. WHAT SIZE IT IS? "I don't care what size it is so long as it will kill deer" I proceed to tell him there are markings on teh side of the barrel that will tell the caliber I ask how did he shoot it before without knowing. He says he inherited the gun and a couple boxes and he shot them all up last year. I tell him I cant do anything for him without know the caliber which he will find on the side of the gun barrel usually. He describes teh gun, from his desc I take it for a bolt gun. Tell him to come back and bring the gun with him. He leaves. an hour later he shows up and pulls a piece of paper from his wallet. Siad he didnt want to bring the gun, didnt want to have to deal with it. told me the gun was a Remington and the caliber is 700  I tell him that isnt it that is a model number... he insists i dont know what I am talking about and he says he is going to Kmart where he knows he can get his ammo. had another guy come in and tell me his buddy is "loading his bullets" for him he bought the rifle used and the accuracy is just way off. asked him if he tried differnt ammo. He said no, but does that make a difference. Sometimes. I ask him to bring the rifle in because there could be a throat problem or a burr at the muzzle crown. He brings in the rifle, a conversion Mauser in .308 and a box of the buddys ammo. THe box says 7.62X51, the bullets are .243 The "buddy" was necking down the 7.62X51/.308 brass for .243 reloads because the brass is so much cheaper and he does a lot of praries dog shooting. Since the claw extractor held the cartridge to the bolt face the lack of chamber wasnt an issue for firing. NEVER fear the night. Fear what hunts IN the night. | |||
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I really prefer to practice by myself, if at all possible. Just this week at the range, I heard these: 1. "My 6mm has a really tight chamber and none of the gases leak by. That makes for a lot faster bullet speed than most guns". 2. "My 300 RUM Sendero is so fast and flat that I can hold dead on a gallon can out to about 600 yards---". 3. We were talking about my recent trip to Namibia, and someone asked what rifle I used. When I said my 375 H&H for everything, including leopard, they told me it would blow everything in half and I should have used a smaller gun like a 3oo Win Mag. ?????????? 4. Perhaps the best of all, "A 22-250 is the best all-around caliber, because even on a bad hit anywhere, the HYDROSCOPIC SHOCK (  ) will rupture their brain. | |||
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The best one's I've heard lately. The 204 is so fast that the bullet actually goes up when it comes out of the barrel, it doesn't start to fall until it gets past 300 yards. If you want a good gun get a 338 magnum. When you hit a deer with it, it will knock the deer completely off it's feet. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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one could almost nod in agreement when you hear that half the population is below average intellegence. GWB | |||
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How about I don't or can't shoot very well in paractice. But when under stress or when the sh-t his the fan I'll have no trouble shooting well. Or I don't have a flinch after you watch the last shots go into the ground 10 feet or so in front of the shooter. | |||
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Uhhh... you do realize that if more than half the population was below average thet someone calculated the average wrong? AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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allen, If so, the guy was probably on the wrong side of the "median". GWB | |||
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If you think about it, assuming an evenly distributed spread, the average would be closre to the median, or 50 abpve and 50 below. In reality, the majority of dumbnuts reduces the average considerably. Reminds me of another gun store where my wife was looking for a 338 winnie, the guy behind the counter says what do you need to shoot with that. My wife's response.... We have some really tough squirrels in the back yard. Heres your sign.... Hmmm some of my other favorite myths... That 270 isn't enough, you should get a 7mm Rem mag. A 44 mag will do everything a 454 will do. (makes me wonder why Dick spent so much time and money developing it then) I don't think anyone should own any military guns or ammo, I will just stick with my 30-06 (or substitute .308, .223, 45-70, or any derviative there in) I love swift A frames, they come out of the animal weighing what they did in the box (just heard that one yesterday.) John | |||
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I was looking for a 10mm carry gun and stopped by the local Sportsmans Warehouse. When asked if they had either a Glock 20 or 29 in stock, the clerk told me to just buy a .40 S&W XD and shoot 10mm's in it. He didn't understand why I would want a 10mm anyways. The .40 is more powerfull, didn't I know that? I was at the range testing handloads in my 45-70 BFR and someone asked what caliber it was. When I told him, he said I was wrong and that a 45-70 handgun would break the shooter's wrist on the first shot. Shipping FedEx Ground keeps a small business running. "I'm not late, I'm early for tomorrow." | |||
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Gee, I wonder what he thought when you jacked out an empty... | |||
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A guy came into a shop I worked at and told me 243 was the best because it was the only rifle that the bullets actualy rise out to 300 yards. I asked him if he put the majic ferry dust on the bullets or snorted it to get that effect. he did not see the humor. this followed by the guy who brought back a box of empty 7mm weatherby brass and wanted his mony back or some replacement ammo because it did not work to kill deer. he told us tht he had shot 5 deer with it and could not find but 3 and it took him 3 days to get the buzzards to help him find them. then he mentioned that he called weatherby and they told him that the 7mm weatherby shooting balistic tips was a gopher gun and he should be shootin bonded bullets to kill texas whit tail. so it was my fault for selling him gopher bullets in the first place. when we told him to let us know if he found a shop that traded empty brass for live ammo to let us know cause we had a bunch of empties to trade in too he got all kinda upset and said walmart only from now on.we said good luck friend. VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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Was at the range recently sighting in a few guns. The guys next to me had a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in some long action caliber. I wasn't really paying attention to how or what they were doing until I heard one of them tell the other that it was "pretty good if you could keep all the shots in the red". The red part of the target they were shooting at was about 6-8". Oh yeah, did I mention their target was at 50 yards??? | |||
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We should put that guy and they guy who told me about the 204 doing that, together and let them fight it out. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Mike-I worked the other side of the counter in gun shops here for 3 years, 3 very long years. I could tell you more stories than you'd ever believe, I used to come home and call Brad and let him in on them. One gal came in to tell me and all that would listen how to fit a pistola to your hand. Next she told me all about how she the perfect pistola for bruin protection for her would be the Uberti bird head in 38 Spcl......She didn't like it when I politely let her know it wasn't one of the better choices she could make and that a can of bruin spray would be mucho better for her. I also had one fella come in a buy a Ruger single six and then walk over to the shelf of Hornady bullets. He picked up a box of 55 grainers and then told his son how great they were gonna work on gophers. And then there was the day that I counted how many times a gun barrel was actually pointed at me during a saturday shift. The number 37 comes to mind. One clerk in one local shop actually pointed a scoped rifle at Brad..... I had one fella do that to a bud of his and I promptly escourted his butt out, he didn't feel much like arguing with me when I came over the counter. Had another one tell me that for his 45/70 guide gun he wanted a 6-18 scope cause the round was a great 1K buff round. When you get here we can pick this up over lunch, and or we can talk about much better things. Looking forward to our lunch. Mark D | |||
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And just as bad are the claims you hear from guys at gunshows about the junk on their tables. I can't tell you how many truly "unique, special, one-of-a-kind, never fired, owned by so-and-so, checkered by so-and-so, carried at the battle of such-and-such guns and knives I have been fortunate enough just to look at. It would be funny if it didn't tell you something about the character of some of our brethern. 114-R10David | |||
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Big Bore Boar Hunter, the Glock actually has a case hardened finish, extremely hard, wear resistant and corrosion resistant !...No wonder I can't hit anything, I don't use those bullets that rise up !!  | |||
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I worked in a pretty good gunshop for several years. The best one I remember: I sold a guy a .300 Wthby. He came back in after elk season and I asked how that rifle worked out. He said it was great-he shot a 6 point bull at 3,000 yards. I was a bit surprised and I politely asked, "Are you sure you don't mean 300 yards?" The guy got all excited and swore it was 3000 and that he had witnesses. I asked him how high he held. He said, "That's the beauty of the Wthby-I held right on and the bullet hit right there. Dropped that bull in his tracks too!" I also cringed whenever I saw "granny" walking in with a grocery bag. Sadly, the old man just croaked and now the old gal wants to get rid of his guns. She has no idea what they are or how they operate. Most of the time the bag is full of handguns and they're all loaded. My partner there did get shot through the finger trying to help such a lady through the door one day. Luckily it was just a .22 and it hit the finger with arthritis. There was never any shortage of BS in that shop and at first it was great fun but it actually began to wear on me. I now wonder about the people I run into out in the woods. Also it has been my experience that Sportsman's Warehouse staff are idiots. | |||
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I usually get the "stare" when I go shoot. The range rats see a person of the female persuasion come in with rifle cases.  They all walk away from their thumb hole stock rifles, lean over at each other and chat. I'll hear a giggle or two as I unpack and set up, sometimes they spit their chew on the ground as they are staring. I might overhear a comment like, bet she can't shoot! Then they see me set up some shooting sticks and some sand bags on the bench so they walk back to their guns and start plinking. Then I'll fire the .375H&H and ALL of them will stop shooting and look. Half of them pack up and leave and one brave one will make his way over by the time I have fired three rounds and will say, whatcha got there a cannon? ~Ann   | |||
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Reminds me of the story of my better half at the range firing her 338 winnie. Someone of the Machismo persuasion comes up to me and asks, "What's she shooting .243? .270?" The look on his face was classic when I explained, " No, she's shooting a 338 Winchester Magnum". John | |||
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Here is one from a while ago, and on the other side. I brought a 12 ga Fox double to a Southern NH gunshop for gunsmith work. The firing pins would not retract when the action was opened making reloading a real treat. I told the proprietor my problem, he took the gun, loaded two shells and there is now a wood stove on that wall. True story, you can not make this stuff up! Oh yeah, I found another smith with far quieter results. | |||
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Even further from the range (and this tread's topic) than a gun shop, I worked for a distributer in the late 70's. One gun shop owner was touring the warehouse and saw a stack of Remington 1100's. He said "I don't sell those cause the guys don't want to fool with the CO2 cartridges". I said "Whut???". He says they take CO2 cartidges like in the BB guns cause they're "gas operated". I tried to explain how gas ports allowed gas from the cartidge to... Too late he was walking off shaking his head.  | |||
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I was at the range a few years back testing out an S&W M49 Bodyguard .38 Spl. snubbie I'd just bought. This wise ass next to me starts ragging me about that "damned Saturday Night Special" and how you can't hit anything past ten feet, bullet won't go more that fifty feet ad nauseum. I quietlt patched the holes in my man silhouette target and moved it out to the 100 yard line. Then, I looked at him, pulled out a $100 dollar bull, laid a box of shell on it to keep it from blowing away and said, I'll bet you this $100 bill I can at least hit that target once in the five rounds in the gun. He said he didn't want to steal my money. I told him to either put up or shut up as I did not need his ignorant BS. I finally got him mad enough to put up the money, although I would have to accept a check. I fired the five rounds and we walked down to the target. two were in the K5, two in the K4 and one in the head. Must have flinched a bit on that one.  It was an expensive lesson for that guy, but he learned to not believe the crap the anti-gun people say about short barreled revolvers. FWIW, thats not the first time I've made money with a snubbie.Paul B. | |||
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Paul B, You naughty boy! Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Once overheard a customer pronouce the virtues of a .22 mag "dillinger"sp, as a most effective combat weapon. When asked about this brilliant summation; his told of his service as a "seal" and how "they" could only carry a small weapon due to the weight of the secret "atomic backpacks" they carried on clandestine underwater missions. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet III/ii | |||
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I once overheard a customer ask the clerk in one of those Mall sporting goods stores if the model 94 Winchester he was looking at was "semi or full automatic?" The clerk replied "I'm not sure, I'll check with my boss." NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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man dont even get me started on the chairborn comando set. VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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I once observed a friend reloading his .243. "Where is your scale?" "I don't have one." "Ok, how do you know how much powder to put in your case?" "My dies came with a scoop. You just use one scoop." | |||
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Same thing happened with my daugher and I when she was shooting her .300 win mag. offhand and getting 4" groups at 100 yards. | |||
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I had a lady come into the gun shop one day talking about her pistol wasn't working right. She had a 40 cal glock that she had been trying to shoot 9mm thru. She said "theys all pistol bullets, whats the difference!" made for some neat looking shell casings. | |||
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No shit. There are some REAL jerkoff's there Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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heard a clesrk tell a guy looking for 10mm that it was law enforcement only caliber. | |||
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Worked as a Natural Resources manager on several military bases from '90 to '04, among other things ran the hunting programs. At range qualification had a GS14 come in with his scope backwards on his rifle. Honest to God. Walt | |||
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"You hunt with reloads? Well, if I couldn't afford new shells I just wouldn't go hunting". "I just sight in at 100 yards and I'm dead on out to 400 because this gun shoots so fast that the bullet doesn't start to drop until then". "A 30mm (scope) tube will gather more light than a one-inch tube". -- Craig Boddington, G&A Magazine, September 2007 [Honest to God, he said that.] "I shoot a (fill in the blank Magnum) because I want the deer to go down no matter where I hit it." | |||
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Well, if you want a real good laugh, and you ever pass through Bakersfield, stop by 2nd Amendment Sports and talk to the men behind their counters. A guy there told my buddy that a .45 was not a good "protection" caliber and that he should look for a 9mm instead. They are classic for statements like that. -eric " . . . a gun is better worn and with bloom off---So is a saddle---People too by God." -EH | |||
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My grandfather was picking up some ammo or something at a gun store. The customer in front of him had bought a handgun. The clerk asked if he had anymore questions. The customer's reply, "Yeah, where do you put the bullets?" ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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