Greetings all -- I spend a lot of time over in the Africa forum, but I am in need of some specialized advice.

has anyone hunted mountain goats??

I was just lucky enough to draw one of three permits for a goat in the Eagle River area of Alaska -- right outside Anchorage, and literally about 15 miles from my house. The folks in the africa forum were very helpful over the last 8 or 9 months as I prepared to go to RSA, and I'm hopeful that folks here can shed light on a goat hunt.

Please throw out your best tidbits, things you wish you'd done, and things you did that worked. Email me directly if you wish.

Thanks!

Jeff Pokorny
Anchorage

Hi Jeff

I've taken a few goats now and I find them very addictive hunting. I don't know what your plans are, if your using horses, backpacking, base camp and stalking or staying up on the mountain. I use a lightweight 300 mag and prefer to live on the hill for a few days and take my time looking over a number of goats before I decide to shoot. Pack light but take everything you can think of that will be useful. Take your time in goat country, one bad move or careless act could ruin your day, week, life.

Large billies usually are alone but may have a youger male sidekick hanging around. The horns on a big billie will look like they are touching at the base and will be longer than his face. Females and kids hang out in groups. If you can time your hunt after a low pressure sytems has just moved through the area you will see a lot of goats out feeding, watch where they go after feeding to bed down, mark the spot and get humping to catch him in bed. Hammer him laying down, try and take out both shoulders and spine with your first shot. If you shoot a standing goat try and take out his neck or spine as the little fellows will take a lot of lead through the lungs and when they are hurt or threatened they will head for the roughest most vertical spots you can think of.

Thats about it for now, if you want my opinion on more specific things, it's free.

Peter

I've hunted goats here in Colorado and most of what Peter stated is also what I found.

One way to tell a billy form a nanny is by their body posture when they urinate. A nany will squat like a dog and a billy will arch his back. I fount this to be a good way to tell the difference at long range. Also a billy may be somewhat yellowish in color. They also have a fairly pronounced "roman nose" look to them.

Make sure you can safely recover him after the shot. The Game Wardens in Colorado told me that they have goats shot every year that aren't recoverable or are all torn up from falling into ravines.

Use a good long range rifle. I used a 7mm Mag and it worked well. Learn where it hit at up to 300 yards and practice both uphill and downhill. Make sure you're in shape and it will be hunt you will remember for a long time.

Mac

Good Advice on both. I shot a nice billy here in Colorado. If you can make the stalk from above the goat is best. Make the 1st shot count, they can pack some lead. They will also jump off a cliff on a death run . The one thing I wished had done was when I got it mounted--- I would have done a half mount. Those front legs with the pantaloons are very impressive. My mount is a shoulder mount, his has a nice beard but I wish I had done the 1/2 mount.

raven045,
You lucky dawg! I dreamed of that Eagle River goat permit when I was a resident, Dall sheep too.

I practiced stalking goats in the Hunter Creek drainage on the other side of Bold Peak at the end of Lake Eklutna.

I cannot help except to wish you the best of luck for a safe and successful hunt, and this tip: Don't forget to take some over-sized white longjohns in your light pack. Slip these over your clothing as "camo" if you have to try to approach goats in the open from their level or below, as a last ditch effort to get within range. It may fool them into thinking you are just another goat. Otherwise 'tis best to approach from above and concealed from their 8X eyesight, as stated already.

I did run the Crow Pass Crossing in 1987, more than a full marathon through some of the most beautiful country in the world. Another time I hiked that stretch, from Girdwood to Eagle River, in one long Alaskan summer day once with a pack and rifle, just for kicks, about 28 miles of drinking glacial runoff and drinking in the beauty.

And I did not even get giardia! Special place!

A third time, my then 12 year old son and I walked up to the top for old times' sake.

A fourth time my wife and I ... whoopee!

May the red god smile upon you!

[ 07-10-2002, 09:31: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

Raven045 - congratulations on your permit - I hunt billies each year and they never cease to amaze me in their durability in the mountains - the previous advice is all good, think of your safety while in the mountains - stay out of rockfall zones, avalanche chutes, etc. Pack light, get your legs and lungs in top shape - watch the billies bed down and get above them - I usually hunt Spencer Glacier and the Hope area, incredible animals and worthy of our respect - good luck !! KMule

All good information. The only thing I'll reiterate is SAFETY! My goat hunting has all been in S.E. Alaska. When people ask me how dangerous is it to hunt brown bear, I always tell them that it's not near as dangerous as hunting goats!

Hunted goats one time in BC. It was the best hunt of my life...10 days in the wilderness with my guide, 2 riding horses and 2 pack horses. I killed my goat on the last day at 265 yds. with my trusty old .30/06. Best way to id a billy is black color around base of horns from glandular secretions,billy horns have an even curve from base to tip while nannies have a little "kink" in their horns about 2" from the tip that is visible if you look carefully, watch for the animal to pee as previously mentioned and solitary animals are usually billies. Last but not least, it's much easier climbing up than it is climbing back down. Be cautious!!! Have a great Hunt!

Hunt with a buddy is the best piece of advice I can give you and take plenty of tylenol with you.

Give it up! Didn't you just get back from Africa with all that pampering. Mountain goat hunting would be just too damm hard after that. You'll have to hike and pack your own stuff for goodness sake...nevermind it's likely to rain, possibly snow on you. Better to leave the goats to someone else.

All this from someone you has been skunked on permits for five years now.

Good luck
Jeff

Thanks, everyone, for the advice.

Stupid question: how heavy are goats? It's thirteen miles IN to the area, backpack only, and then of course 13 miles OUT. I'd hate to have to think about a second trip to get the hide/horns out. All I can find on the web is that they weigh between 150 and 308lbs. I guess I figure that boned out, it must be about 150lbs. Am I far off?

Can't answer for everywhere, but here in Colorado I'd say they probably average about 250 lbs live weight. I hunted with another guy and he packed to full skin and head while I packed the meat. We were not required by law to bring out rib or neck meat so that saved some weight. Have a good pack frame handy. If you pack light you should be able to bring all out without much trouble if you have someone with you to help.

Just some advise on the meat. It's a little tough. I have to marinate it and I made a bunch into jerky.

Mac

raven

I would guess my biggest to weigh near 350pnds. He was also sporting 52 6/8 inches worth of horn, so a really big goat. When packing in my pack weighs 35pnds, when back after a successful hunt it weighs around 85pnds (I always hunt with a partner) this would make a 350pnd goat deboned and caped into a 100pnd pack.

When you cook it the meat the rule is to cook it low and slow. If I can get my wife on this contraption I'll have her type up one of my favorite recipes for goat.

...Peter

raven...it looks as if you will be limited in your options (1) get a buddy to go along for safety and to help you pack out if you get a goat, (2) resign yourself to making several trips, or (3) build a cabin and eat the goat right there before you pack out the cape.

Mt. Goat hunting is one of my favorites. I got lucky again and got a limited entry hunt this year too.

In my experience, a boned out goat and full cape (with skull in) will run around 100lbs. The last goat I shot ('99), I had my pack dog with me. It was just an overnight pack in so my pack only weighed about 15lbs going in. When I got home my pack weighed 75lbs and my dog's weighed 32lbs. With a few pounds of food gone from the pack, that would be in the vicinity of 100lbs. I had the full hide and skull and boned out front quarters, and my dog had the boned out hinds on each side of his pack.

Here is a tip for you to consider. It goes against conventional wisdom though, so you can take it or leave it at your discrection. Most people shoot goats with the intention to anchor them. The theory is good because I don't know of another animal with as much tenacity. A billy will drag himself off a cliff with his front legs if his back is broken. Believe me, I've seen it. Break only one front shoulder and I'd bet dollars to donuts that if there is a cliff nearby, you might as well start walking to the bottom of it to collect your beaten up goat. The problem with the theory is putting it in practice. With the angles you are likely to get, at the distances that occur commonly in the mountains, factoring in wind etc, it is tough to make the shot that will anchor a billy in its tracks.

So here is a theory my friends and I have come up with. This is based on a number of successful hunts now, so it isn't just pie in the sky conjecture. The first thing is to make sure you are shooting a well constructed bullet, like a Nosler Partition or Barnes X or equivalent (you want a pass through, so frangible bullets won't work). Then, instead of shooting to anchor, put your bullet behind the shoulder and take out both lungs and no bones. Now resist the temptation to keep the lead flying until the goat hits the ground, and no hootin' and hollerin'!

Goats are used to loud noises from rocks falling. If the goats didn't know you were there, they will get up at the noise and look around. Many times they will just lay back down. If they do spook they will start moving up hill, as is their instinct for avoiding danger. After a little bit, they will settle down again.

The goat with the breathing problem will almost always lay down when it starts feeling sick. If you stay concealed until the goat is dead, you won't have to worry about finding it at the bottom of a cliff.

Goats are very tough. I think most of them end up taking a tumble simply because they know where the danger is coming from and in their attempts to escape wounded they make a mistake with their footing and down they go. It is their natural instinct to get into the cliffs to escape danger, and it seems logical that a goat that is losing blood fast or incapable of using a limb is not going to be a very good rock climber.

Anyhoo, just thought I'd share my experience to date. You can take it for what its worth.

Good luck on your hunt!

Canuck

ps: BTW, that goat Peter W got isn't just really big...its a MONSTER! Congrats again Peter.

[ 07-12-2002, 08:14: Message edited by: Canuck ]

Canuck

Thanks.

I can buy into your lung shot theory. Goats do take a bit of time to get spooked, even if your standing 100yds apart and looking at each other. I'll give it a shot next time out. After my first ever goat crawled off a cliff with a broken back I pretty much figured you had to smash them into submision.

I'll post a photo here sometime of my biggest, 49 2/8, 50 4/8 and 52 6/8.

...Peter

Peter,

Same thing happened with my first goat. I was watching it for hours waiting for it to stand up so I could take a shot and that sucker never moved. So about an hour before dark I decided to try some cowboy tricks. I shot over it and into the cliff face behind it, hoping that would make it stand up. It never got up! Some of the goats around it got up and looked around though, so I tried it again. It worked this time, so while it was standing there broadside I carefully aimed to take out both shoulders and its spine with my 300 Win Mag and 200gr Sierras. Well, I missed. But not by much though, as I did break the spine about 4" behind the intersection with the shoulder. The back end dropped out of that goat, and while I watched dumbfounded it drug its way over to a cleft in the wide ledge it was on. Then it tried to jump the cleft with just its front legs and didn't make it. It fell 500ft+ into a shale slide below. After I climbed down to it, I still had to give it a finisher. I sure felt crappy that it suffered so long, and was amazed at how tough they are.

It was after that we decided to re-evaluate how to keep goats from bailing. Making the shot that will truly anchor them is really tough. To take out both front legs and the spine at once, you have an awefully small target.

I look forward to your pic's. Those are some awefully nice billies.

Take care,
Chris

Get a good pair of mountain boots and break them in well before you go.I use meindl canada's and they have always given good support and been comfortable.Boots that most people wear deer hunting in the timber seldom work well in the mountains.