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Dear Chuck, I think you are formulating a rather common feeling, which however rarely shows up in the published print media. I, for one, agree with you fully. My grandfather's and great-grandfather's generation shot most game with the 9,3 x 72 R barrel of a combined weapon (for dyed-in-the-wool Americans :-): the 9,3 x 72 R is an almost cylindrical blackpowder cartridge, akin to the .38-55, which lateron was and still is loaded with mild nitro loads, but cannot usually achieve 2000 Joule at 100 metres with safe pressures, except by employing Vihtavuori high-energy powders), and that with open sights. Nothing against progress, but you nicely chastized some of the more common exaggerations and absurdities. My own pet peeve: Scheiring's single-barrel lightweight break-open rifles in .300 Pegasus (!). Regards, Carcano carcano91@hotmail.com | |||
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Chuck, It all comes down to whether the gun/caliber is just a means to an end. Same can be applied to cars and many other things. We probably kill a few more animals in Australia than you do. I can guarantee you that 223 and 308 are the most efficient. But you know, I love to use the 375 H&H on anything and everthing and have done so for many years. After 12 months or so of tossing some ideas around etc., I have given the go ahead to the gunsmith to make the custom rifles. Will they be more efficient than a 223 or 308 Ruger. Of course not. But you know, if we become too efficient and practical, then we are in bed with the communists, as that is what communism is about. That is a great thing about Australia. We can earn good money and choose a big V8 just to do the shopping in. Obviously we don't need V8s in different colours. It always makes me sad to see so many American shooters get all tied up with the phrase "you only need this etc." Actually you don't really need any guns Mike [ 06-02-2002, 14:57: Message edited by: Mike375 ] | |||
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I guess it comes down to "are you a hunter or are you a shooter". | |||
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well said! | |||
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Mike, Perhaps you blokes in Oz don't need your guns, but we Americans need our guns. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} jim dodd | |||
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Some folks just can't stand to see anyone have any fun. Does everything have to make sense and be efficient??? BTW, my 22" .375 develops 2500 fps with a 300gr bullet and I shoot deer with it! So there! Tim Oh, and I've brained hogs with a .22 as well. It's all fun...and it doesn't have to make sense. This isn't work, ya know. | |||
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Jim, I know you post in jest but you don't need guns for hunting. In fact you don't need to hunt. If for self defense, then what would be needed would be very different to the various guns owned by different members. Mike | |||
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It's fun to own and experiment with lots of different guns but most active shooters could get by just fine with a (1) 22 LR (2) 30-06 bolt gun (3) 12 gauge shotgun and maybe (4) 375 bolt gun. | |||
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quote:So, I suppose what you're hinnting at is that my original idea of an ultra lightweight 20" bbled .22/378 eargespitten loudnboomer with a straight 36 power 50mm objective scope for hunting deer, antelope and wild boar for 60-250 yds is just a bit of slightly faulted logic? ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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quote:Perhaps 'Stralians don't have much of a need anymore, but Americans do. Firearms provide freedom. Governments don't take care of people, they make slaves of them. I suppose we should all be buying man-made chemical-infested food from the store. Become vegitarians while were at it. Poor bambi! How dare we shot them sweet inocent animal companions of the forests. After all, Disney proved they could talk. They should be given the same rights as humans. I'm all for it. I'd like to have a bear living next door, so we could sing The Bare Necessities! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} ~~~Suluuq | |||
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Suluuq, Notice that one of your fellow Americans who started this thread feels you only "need" a 30/06. We Australian need a gun more than Americans. Americans have hunting magazines. They harvest animals and go hunting for the week. Australian gun magazines are called Sporting Shooter and Australian Shooter. Our version of the NRA is called The Sporting Shooters Association. We go on shooting trips not hunting trips. Whe shoot animals, we don't harvest them. Thus our interest is shooting and for that you need a gun In fact that helped us with knocking over the licensing criteria we were presented with in terms of what calibers could be owned. Mike | |||
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| <ChuckD> |
I would be the last guy to ever advocate owning only what is necessary, otherwise I would not need another gunsafe! When I bought my 7 rem mag, (yeah, I do have one, and no 30-06) I thought that was what it took to kill an elk. I guess that is the reason for this post--new hunters are fed so much wrong information. These days my elk gun is a traditional muzzleloader, using black powder and maxi-balls. Though slow as all get out, they hit the quite large Roosevelt elk with deadly authority. And until I started handloading many years ago, factory ammo was not working for me in the 7 mag. There was no premium loading, and the design parameters for the bullets included shots at much further distances than than I was taking. Therefore, I had a lot of problems getting clean kills on deer. Nosler saved the day, with the 160 gr Partition. The 308 offered me no such problems. To our Australian friend, dont believe everything you hear--My friends and I hunt about 3 months per year--We only harvest from the garden-we make meat by killing animals which we butcher at home--'ya know. Ever try any of those 10x25 compacts. Or see soom newby with a .338 mag and a 4x16x50 scope,full camo, running around in his shiney new pickup---just to fill a deer tag? If he did get one (unlikely), I'm sure he would be in the 90% group that gets immature bucks. I guess what it is that gets to me, are these questions from the "city" guys about hunting out west, who are leaning toward believing the bs in the gun mags.About "bear protection"!! Except in Alaska, what kind of guns do you think the typical logger or other woods-worker carries while at work? I worked in the woods many years and, like everyone else, carried no gun at all and was perfectly safe. And I have a 6x24x44 scope too, but of course it is mounted on a benchrest gun. And I am still waiting to hear of someone who can accurately shoot one of the super lightweight anythings accurately offhand. Sometimes that is the shot you get. Thats it for now, but Curtis (I'm whispering now) where can I get that so cool rifle you are alluding to---I'm thinking this is it for gophers to large buildings---and with the grenade launcher attachment and optional hubbel 'scope----yes, I bet it would even stop bears-----Have fun, Chuck | ||
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I just like to own different guns plain and simple. I like to shoot different guns as well, I do not need a .416 nor do I need the .585 Nyatti I am building. But it would be a bloody boring Forum here if we all owned the same firearms | |||
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PC, I could not count the number of times I have been away and a neighbour is there and says you don't need those big guns. Then we all head out spotlighting and the neighbour says "make sure you bring that big gun" I am sure you have seen similar. Nothing like spotlighting roos with a 460, except of cause with a 585 Nyati. Mike | |||
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quote:Oh this is a strictly custom job here. I'm thinking a 30/06 ADL, rebarreled with, oh let's say a spare 222 bbl rechambered , lightened up by taking just enough metal off the action , a nice lightweight aftermarket synthetic and one of those straight 36 powers scopes them silhouette boys use. Muzzelbrake? Nah, those are for wimps . I'll tell ya what, if you take the first five shots with this thing and you like it that much i'll let you have it [ 06-03-2002, 18:36: Message edited by: Curtis_Lemay ] | |||
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I'd have to concur with the original post and I'll leave the NEED argument for other times. How many new .30 cal mags do we have? That all do pretty much the same thing? It's great fun for all the fiddlin' we get to do and the gun companies get to repackage the same ballistics in something different. Like Jeff Cooper has said - the purpose of gun companies is to sell guns! Would you buy something advertised as "the same old .300 mag we've had for X years in a boring package you've seen before"? Doubtful. Enjoy the products if you care to. Be thankful we have choices. Redial | |||
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Let's face it, the guys that hang out here and post tend to be: Nuts. (Like in "gun nuts") Excentric. (Like in Factory ammo shall never defile my rifle.) Opinionated. (Enough said on that.) (I include myself.) Most hunters are not this hard core. They want reliability and ease. The market isn't big enough to support all of the new rounds coming out. Most of them will fall by the wayside becasue the agerage shooter - which leaves us out- will stick with the old and tursted becasue that what his old man used, his old man's old man and all the uncles and great uncles. Frankly, perusing the new load data for the new rounds proved that it wasn't worth the effort and expense to invest in a new rifle, all the reloading equipment to an increase in velocity and maybe questionaable accuracy. I know what my hunting rifles can do accuracy wise and I will stick with them. I've asked my local gun dealer who sells a lot of rifles and he agrees. While he sold a lot of the new super magnums, he got a lot of them back as used, traded for the traditional rounds. | |||
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As to "needs". We don't "need" anything but something to eat and the big white throne. We don't even "need" to play "hide the sausage". BUT, I will jump up and down, scream and holler, shake my fist, kick ass and forget the name if you think I don't "NEED" my guns and motorcycles. I don't need a wife and got rid of one because she though I didn't need my guns and bikes. She gave me a choice, guess what it was. What we don't "need" is all the bickering, name calling, ignorant bullshit that goes on. Everyone gets to keep their opinions because each one of us "needs" to feel good about our toys but some of the arguments border on the absurd. Let's keep our "needs" under wraps so the antigun 'fatherless persons with a female dog for a mother' don't have any more ammo to collect. Makatak | |||
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Gungadin99 I'm ignorant...please explain what you mean by keeping our "needs" under wraps. I don't get it. Tim | |||
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| <ChuckD> |
Gungadin--Do you honestly think that the antis would even bother using our little debares against us? That would require research, at least some knowledge, and at least a little bit of integrity. They instead use hollywood, Chuck Schumer, and the creat-a-myth software. Curtis, Ive got this buddy who is so gullible, that bro-in-law and I once convinced him we had ridden our mountain bikes across a very deep (75') draw on a 2' in diameter old mossy log. Mind you that he was in his late 30's at the time.Well, to our absolute horror, he actually wobbled across that draw---I think HE would be the chice for the fieldtester of you well-thought-out project--I' can't, cause I will be checking out new mountain biking trails----Chuck | ||
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Just goes to show how many people hunt from the easy chair by the fire with a magazine in hand as opposed to how many hunt with a rifle on shoulder. These products are made for the spectators not the real hunters. | |||
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Chuck, Don't lissin to Lemay - He's try to sell ya the watered down version, For shame Curtis... The current Mark III version is based on a twenty mil case blown out and necked down to a sewing machine needle... I still trying to figure out how to mount the 18" mirror telescope on the silly thing as well as make a reticle that big - don't worry about the stock - I've decided to use a utility trailer from Home Depot! As for you, Curtis I'm gonna whip you sumptin' fierce for backin out of our deal - For every Rifle I build, I get twenty hours of therapy - and boy do I need it for building sumptin' like this!By Aim and by Effort H.T.R.N. | |||
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Mike, It is so true everyone wnats to "have a go of the big gun". I remember when I was little and this fellow used to shoot on our farm with a 30/06. I did not care for his .22 much but I loved to see the 30/06 get used. It will be fun shooting hoppers with 650 gr black powder projectiles at 2300-2400, hopefully the projectiles will split like old bannanas. | |||
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quote:now, now, the Mark III version isn't quite ready for civilian use yey, you know that . Especially since we can't seem to locate a good soure sewing machnie needles ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} . As for your twenty hours of therapy for some of these projects ideas you come up with, i'd say you're being a might conservative on the amount of time you need to spend in therapy. | |||
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I would agree with Chuck, without getting into a "needs" discussion, eccept for the lightweight rifle bit. Maybe I'm different, but I actually shoot them better and have three of them. I tend not to pull them off target as much as I do heavier rifles. Same with my shotguns. The light ones just shoot better for me. I only own one magnum a 264 I bought just 'cuz. I do own a couple of wildcats, again, just 'cuz, not because they fill a void that a factory cartridge won't. The rest os the rifles I own are pretty standard 308s, 30-06 and 6.5x55. I will happily say that I do get to shoot them all since I live close to the range, but I do lots of practicing with whichever rifle I will take hunting and I will practice from all field positions. I think the practice helps more that any magnum ever will. | |||
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Ahem, I didn't say anything about how much I needed TOTAL, just the goin' rate per gun! And your right 20 ain't enuff when when ya compare my smithin' against your shrinkin'! Just wait, I'm puttin' the finishing touches on the Mark IV, as soon as I can find some decent 105 mil. brass.. I'm very disappointed in your lack of faith - "Buying sewing machine needles", Hrmmph! You mere mortals need to "buy", but us Machinists up here on Mt. Olympus simply "make"!By Aim and by Effort H.T.R.N. | |||
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mortals? mount olympus? off your happy pills again i see... | |||
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| <Eric J> |
Bigger better faster.....bigger better faster....bigger better faster.....More!!!.... More!!!.... MORE!!!! Isn't it FUN to be the only kid on the block with a new shiny toy. I agree that it doesn't take a cluster bomb to kill a prarie dog, but wouldn't it be FUN to watch it! BTW, I don't shoot magnums either, I don't like getting my nose broken every time I pull the trigger, but wouldn't it be FUN to watch? There's nothing wrong with having a gun/cartridge just like everyone else(boring!), but I REFUSE TO CONFORM!!!!!!! Eric ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon}  [ 06-07-2002, 05:11: Message edited by: Eric J ] | ||
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