Guys I need your help once again. I made the dubious mistake of posting a question in BIG BORES and I think I got some really bad advice?? The question I asked them was On A sako 75 in 416 Rem Mag would they recommend low or med or High scope mounts and also what scope to purchase/and what power is best. the first reply I got was glass bed the action because the stock will crack if I don't. So I asked my local Gun dealer and he told me NOT to glass bed the action in that it will void the warranty. As far as I'm concerned you big game hunters are the authority so tell me guys what should I do? What scope" what rings for best eye relief? glass bed or not?

I've probably "voided the warranty" on every rifle I've ever owned. Many gun dealers don't hunt all that much (very, very few make it to Africa), and they have a way of looking at only one side of the coin. The preoccupation over warranty in this case is sort of "step-over-a-dollar-to-pick-up-a-dime" thinking. After all, what is your Sako rifle worth if you sold it today for cash? What is the value of the hunt you're about to embark on? Whats' the value of your own safety if you use that .416 on dangerous game? See what I mean?

I believe in making any alteration or improvment necessary to enhance the accuracy and functional quality of any rifle I own. Let's say you decide against glassing the recoil lug area because of warranty concerns, then let's say you do have a problem with a cracked stock during your safari. That warranty will do you no good until you return home. In the meantime, you'll have to contend with the assorted headaches that might come along with a cracked stock while you're attempting to make the most of your hunting investment and come home in one piece.

You'd be amazed at some of the expedient measures that folks with cracked or broken stocks are forced to resort to in order to get through hunts. It's not worth the risk.

For my first safari, I took a .458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 as my heavy rifle. One of the first things I had done to it was to have the stock carefully rebedded with Brownell's "Steel Bed". No doubt I voided the warranty by having that work done, but then again, after several hundred rounds fired, the stock hasn't cracked, and that rifle has never changed its point of impact. That sort of performance is worth more than any conditional guarantee offered by a manufacturer, especially when you're several thousand miles from a warranty repair center.

Go ahead and glass your stock, and if the warranty is deemed null and void as a result - so be it.

AD

[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 06-20-2001).]

If you don't glass bed it you will need the warranty! An unbedded wooden stock (unless exceptional wood, fitted impeccably to the action) will crack almost every time in a medium or big bore caliber.

The Sako is relatively light, meaning that the barreled action is a 6 lb slide hammer moving fast rather than a 10 pound one moving slower. If it moves at all it will hammer itself more room until it gets enough running start to split the stock.

On a light rifle you bed for accuracy. In a big game caliber you bed for longevity and accuracy.

Don

Sed1945

I'm the one who suggested you get your .416 bedded. The two .416's I cracked the stocks on were sent back to Stoeger Canada who are the distributors of Sako rifles to all gun dealers in Canada, Stoeger replaced and bedded both stocks at their shop and at their cost. I would have your local gun dealer contact his Sako distributor and see what they will do for you.

...Peter

sed1945.

Follow theese gentlemens GOOD advise and bed your stock.

As allen day points out the walu of a dependeble rifle must be more worth than a voided Warranty.

Stefan.

I agree with the NEED ti bed the stock. As far as the scope rings go- How does the stock fit your face? Does the comb have to be pressed into your cheek to get down over the bore? If you set the rings on the action and center your eye in the ring, you will get a pretty good feel for the "right" height. I also feel you want a scope with as much eye relief as possible, one of the "best" for this type set up is a Leupold 1.5x5 Varix III, very forgiving.

Sed1945,

The advise you recieved from both camps is basicaly sound...you have to mull it over while condsidering your own personal circumstances. I would not be happy with a new rifle if it did not shoot/function reasonably well "off the shelf" and I would certainly be looking for the makers to put things right if they were wrong.
Have you got time to give the rifle a good shake down "as is" before using it in anger??
Personally, I would like to see a few rounds fired through it at the range before glass bedding/altering it. If no problems manifested themselves and I was happy with the rifle, then I'd glass bed. If you glass bed, then the rifle shoots like a dog, what happens next?? What happens if it does not feed correctly or you have ejection problems?? I suspect Sako would be very loath to deal after it had been worked over by somebody else.

Pete

I have never owned a rifle chambered for anything larger than 30 caliber so I may be missing something here, but why would any manufacturer build a rifle with a stock that would not stand up to the recoil for that particular cartridge??? If this is as common of a problem as it sounds, I would think Sako would have come up with remedy long ago.

Hal,

I think you have a very valid point that we
as customers seem to be willing to put up with less than perfect performance/function. This willingneess to "compromise" seems to be especially common in the American made factory market. I seem to recall that Fin Aagaard writing that Winchester had stock problems on the very first .375 H&H M70 they shipped to Africa and that must have been in the late 1950's perhaps early 60's???. No other industry would get away with it. "Fine tuning" or "customising" is one thing, but
putting up with shoddy workmanship is another.

Pete

[This message has been edited by Pete E (edited 06-20-2001).]

Well, if it was me, I'd just put the rifle in a good aftermarket synthetic stock and forget about it. Then, if a mechanical problem arose, I'd just put it back in the original stock and send it in to be repaired.
Fact is, all my serious hunting rifles are in synthetic stocks, bedded by me.
Not to familiar with Sako rifles, but do the 75's come with their own special rings like the earlier models? If so, I'd use those. For a scope? Definitely a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5x5X or something in a 2.5 to 3X, preferably by Leupold.
Paul B.

Paul B has the right answer. I've went the same route with most of my rifles-factory or custom. But then again I'm a McMillan nut. I would pillar bed the Sako in a nice synthetic stock, stash the factory stock under the bed. sure-shot

I own a Sako 75 chambered in .300 Weatherby. The first thing I did after buying it was bed it. I wasn't really concerned about a cracked stock, but did it for accuracy reasons. Regarding the suggestion to pillar bed it, I'm not sure you can pillar bed a Sako 75 due to the unique design of the action. As far as scope rings are concerned I would suggest the low rings if you're going with the Optilock mounts. Because of the integral design, they tend to be on the high side anyway. A low powered Leupold VXIII should work fine with this setup.

To hint of the bad advise on question shows how little you know or have had to do with rifles.
The advise from smiths and hunters of the caliber who are answering you is World Class
so the statement made by you shows a lack of knowledge. These people put your local shop to shame for warranty is the last thing that will be on your mind in case of failure in a bad spot
Which height of mount will depend on the scope you choose.
If you check the back listings you will find the scope question covered extensively.
Leupold has been the scope of choice. Normally the low powered variable.
Keep the scope as low as is possible for you.
Sorry to sound off but have thought of this for days and just cannot let that statement slide

ok guys, I left the rifle alone installed a Leaold 4 power on mediam rings shot 20 rounds thru it at the bench first 3 shot group printed at one inch and went to a little over two as the rifle heated up. Pretty good for a big bore. anyway took it home removed the stock and guess what fellas , everythings still in one peace..

Sed1945,
I would now try running several different types of bullets through it just to make sure
it feeds all the various profiles. If you don't want to spend on different boxes of ammo, ask the guy you bought it off if you can spend an hour in the shop chambering a selection of bullets. If all is well, and the rifle looks like a keeper, then I would think about glass bedding it..sort of insurance against Mr Murphy. I would not expect any problems after 20 rounds in a Sako, but after 220 or 320 rounds it maybe a different ball game.

Pete

[This message has been edited by Pete E (edited 06-25-2001).]

Thanks Pete, sound like good advice to me

Sed1945
When you eject your spent casings are you getting a small horseshoe shaped dent behind the shoulder? Try ejecting live rounds and see if the dent appears. The stock on my first .416 Sako split at 14 rounds, the second split at 62 rounds. By all means shoot it until it breaks and then have it bedded on warranty, hopefully it won't break during the middle of a hunt. Course there's always duct tape.

...Peter

SED1945,
I have never fired a SAKO 75, but I have 5 SAKOs, '70's-'80's vintage wood stocks.

I like the L.III 1.5x5 and will get that in their new illuminated German dot. The short L.III 2.5x8 may not fit well enough in the AV magnum action; it does not fit my AIII magnum. L. 1.75x6 is a good compromise with a selection of reticles.
I use both mid and high rings, depending on the rifle's kick. I move scopes around often. I am 6'1" with what friends and enemies have declared a big head. A too tall ring may have your cheek bone kissed by the stock as it arcs. I switch to mid rings on my .300 Win. when I fire 200 - 250 grain bullets. Don't even think of super high.
Leupold rings are heavier than SAKO, as well as much less costly.

Take of the factory "tupperware" stock and get a McMillan stock for your rifle, pillar bed it and you have something that works.

Warranty is something that never will work then you need it the most. When Gun dealers starts Shooting the breeze about Warranty, give them the finger.

Sako made a big mistake when they got these Tupperware stocks for the rifles.

Scope? depends on what you will hunt and in which terrain? 3-9X36 is nice.

Johan

Hey,
Imho,I would see how the gun shoots,before I would do anything to it.As far as rings go,I am converting all my rings to the Burris Signature rings,with the inserts.My choice of scope would be a Leupold 1.75x6.If your are hunting big timber,I might go with a heavy duplex.the thin duplex sometimes are hard to see in Black timber.Beretta is now the distributor for Sako in the USA.Use the Beretta number.They are very helpfull.You can also purchase Sako rings from them if your dealer does not carry them.The Sako Opti-lok rings ar similar to the Burris.They com with the inserts.
1GEEJAY
www.shooting-hunting.com

Sed1945,
All is still in one piece?? Let me tell you how that works..In time with a unknown amount of shooting the 416 will probably pound an indention in the wood, the the metal has a running start and it will split out 80 to 90% of all factory stocks.

An option is to double cross bolt the action or glass the action...I do both on all big bores even my Custom rifles in calibers over 416 Rem or 404...I still cross bolt the 375, 9.3's...

I have seen a number of guns come apart on Safari, thats why we keep extra guns in camp. Many of thoes guns that came apart in camp were by famous gun builders who verbally condemed glass bedding as a cheap way to inlet. They are fond of boasting of thier inletting abilities, when it splits you never heard so many excuses...

Play it safe on Safari, thats a big investment..Your call, its your gun.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Bedding the rifle will not hurt it.

Will only help it.

sed, you came to the right place and asked the right questions. The best people I can think of have given you good advice that is spot on in my experience.
Now, I guess it's up to you to heed it or not. Given these guys' experience, I think I would follow the advice given and never look back. You would feel pretty foolish if you don't and something goes wrong in the middle of an expensive hunt.
In my experience, almost all rifles .375 and up will eventually split a wood stock with enough shooting- it's only a matter of time. Also, in my experience, I've never had a rifle that bedding didn't help in some way- accuracy or longevity. As Ray says, your call.- Sheister