I just returned to my home in Dillon, Montana from a 380 mile round trip to Missoula, Montana. Several new forest fires were observed in the foothills around Missoula and the Bitterroot Valley! One Gunshow attendee relayed he saw 10 new fires as he came to Missoula from the west on I-90. I and my Gunshow travelling buddies had approached Missoula from the east!
Once at home this evening I listened to the 10:00 PM Missoula news (KTVM news channel 6) they reported that in western Montana yesterday (August 8th) 3,600 lightning strikes made it to the ground in western Montana! Starting at least 165 new small fires to go along with the many that are already burning! That, has to be a new world record!
The news is reporting complete closures to several Montana forest and primitive areas as I write this! Archery Elk/Deer is due to open on September 6th and unless conditions change drastically there will almost certainly be interference with that opener in Western Montana at least!
It was frustrating to drive around Missoula and later down the Bitterroot Valley and see the small fires on the forested hillsides and no aircraft to fight them!
Pray for rain!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, though we may not like it, fire is a normal and important part of the Western eco-system. Heck, I lost my favorite elk "honey hole" in a 2001 fire... it'll all work out ok!

Brad, it seems those burn areas in 4 or 5 years become some of the best elk habitat ever. New growth and it supports an even better and bigger herd.

BTW, have a 9.3x62, half round half octagon on a legacy mauser I will be able to show you in a week or so. Was fun building it.

Yes indeed fires are part of the westerner ecosystems, but the behavior of today�s fires on the National Forest system are hardly natural. With climatic issues, fuel loads, land use conversions, urban interfaces and on and on, it is just damn naive to say that fires are �nature�s way� and the western ecosystems will naturally reconcile. We do not have pre-settlement conditions and will never have them again. The long-term outcome of many of the recent large western fires is anything but certain. However, it is becoming clear that we are experiencing in many of the western interior water courses elevated temperatures, heaver than normal sediment loads of inorganics and abnormal nutrient concentrations etc.as a result of many of the past decade�s western fires. Moreover, re-vegetation, herd migration, predation patterns and a whole pile of other stuff are becoming problematic and causing concern in the forest science community. And God only knows what the cumulative effect of the unparalleled carbon releases from these fires will have on global warming. There are just too many fires, which are too intense and consuming too much acreage to conclude that everything is just dandy and �natural.� You guys are smarter than that�.

I have acknowledged on various forums that I have personal financial interest in the forest products industry. That said, I cannot fathom the thinking of people who do not understand that these fires destroy the opportunity to create wealth and sustain our Nation�s ability to provide a domestic supply of building products.

It may be difficult for some of you to believe, but we have more trees in the US today than we did in 1920. Prior to the depression, vast areas of our country were being logged off and the land was being converted to meet agricultural and livestock grazing demands. Many of these converted acres have subsequently reverted and are now supporting stands of timber.

Perhaps even more difficult for many to accept is that the National Forest system was consolidated in the early 1900s to insure that our country had a sustainable flow of forest products. The establishment of this system had absolutely nothing to do with elk hunting, backpacking or to provide a solitary place for someone to contemplate their karma. However, I understand that priorities change, but frankly I am absolutely appalled as to how far we have departed from the original strategies and objectives that were the basis for the establishment of the National Forest system.

From the USDA, forecasting agencies and trade associations, I�ll offer some facts that can be readily substantiated. In rough numbers, the National Forest system holds 46 % of our Nation�s entire softwood inventory. To sustain today�s 1.7 million housing starts, the US will import 35 % of our lumber needs from foreign countries (What a joke. Teddy R. is probably rolling over in his grave) and the US lumber industry will need approximately 27- 29 billion board feet (log scale) of timber to provide sufficient lumber to completely satisfy this housing demand. The USDA clams that they harvested 1.3 billion board feet last year on the entire National forest system. However, the geniuses in the Forest Service and their pals in environmental movement have been engaged in strategies that materially contributed to the loss of approximately 17.8 billion board feet of timber to forest fires last year alone. Damn little if any of this volume will be salvaged, and we will probably experience similar losses again this year.

Because of over stocking, stand mortality ratios, age classes, infestations and on and on, the size and intensity of the catastrophic fires that we are experiencing today are unnatural and the consequences to the environment are uncertain. Now, I understand that Hollywood clebs, enviros, and urban dwellers should rightfully have as much to say about the management of our public lands as I do. However, for the past 15 years, these interest groups have hijacked public land management policies and the outcome has been disastrous. The National Forest is as much mine as it is theirs, and I want my part to be healthy, productive, a source of wealth creation for our country as well as a spot to kill an elk. I know that with power saws, dry kilns and prudent land stewardship that my part of the vision for our public lands can happen. CP.

[ 08-10-2003, 21:21: Message edited by: CP ]

Does anybody know the status of the fires around Jordan and eastern Montana?

CP: Thanks for the excellent posting and your observations. I agree wholeheartedly with the sustained use and harvesting of our national forests. The thought of sending more and more of our money to Canada for lumber every year is just sickening to me! We should be rotating and harvesting our forest lands for maximum yields and sustaining practices! I have seen first hand the horrors of the obstructionists agenda in regards to our forests- lost jobs, lost income to the government, very high prices for lumber, poor conditions of our forests etc etc etc!
Yes I am fully aware of the need for and beneficial aspects of forest fires and the rejuvenation that occurs. I never said "no more fires". I am saying the forests are not being used and protected correctly and have not been for 20+ years. Unless you are a forest in Senator tom daschles home state. That hypocrite!
CP I did not understand one part of a sentence you wrote. Could you clarify what you are referring to in your last pargraph "Because of overstocking...." are you referring to to many cattle grazing in the summers of trees to close together? I always Hunt old burned areas when they are growing back with thick grasses and browse!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

TomP: I have been trying to find that out myself. The last I heard 3 big fires had come together and formed one very large fire NNW of Jordan. There were also wheat and crop fields burning in that area. I have not heard anything about that area for 8 days or so! I am due to go over thataway on a scouting trip east of Jordan in a week. I will see firsthand what is happening then!
More later if I hear anything.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

[ 08-10-2003, 21:35: Message edited by: VarmintGuy ]

VarmitGuy, my use of the term �overstocking� is in reference to the number of stems (trees) that occupy a unit of area. In many western stands, we have 3-10x the number of trees per acre that would be encountered in a natural occurring or prudently managed forest. This overstocking condition acerbates drought stress in these stands and serves as a fuel ladder for fires, which puts the naturally fire resist old growth at risk.

If you will drill down through the following web site, you can get some of the most up to date fire information that is available:

http://www.nifc.gov/

CP.

VarmintGuy,

I had a fire threaten my favorite chuck spot just a few weeks ago, but luckily, it didn't make it that far! The fire did however burn an area I was looking forward to hunting for deer and elk this season for the first time. I'm not sure if I'll mess with it this year, though and probably just go to my other spots.

While we all know that fire is a good thing for the forest, it doesn't always make it easier to cope with a favorite spot burning.

Hello VG

Do a search on Missouri Breaks Complex Fires; there are a few links and one of them is to a satellite imaging outfit with good pictures. The fires are east of the Musselshell River and don't go any further north than the Missouri River.

Tom

TomP: Thanks I am heading over that way tomorrow on a combination Big Game scouting trip and Varmint Hunt. I will get a first hand look at whats up if the roads are open.
I will do the search thing tonight also. Thanks for that heads up!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Here's a link to viw sat. photos of Montana's fires. Pretty sobering.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.php3?img_id=11637

The overstocking referred to by CP is a result of poor logging practices and overzealous fire suppression in the past. The timber companies at the time were concerned with a one time harvest and were absolutely unconcerned about anything else. Likewise fire suppression was geared toward the saving of merchantable timber and nothing else. A large portion of the ills in today's lumber industry result from poor management of the the forest resource on both sides of the table.
I have said repeatedly that when you are cursing the need to import wood be sure and curse such companies as Weyerhauser, Louisiana Pacific, Boise Cascade etc. They are some of the owners of the wood which is being imported. Also be sure and curse those companies which are selling raw logs for milling on Korean ships which then "export" finished lumber to North America.
The debates on forest management tend to be very polarized with special intrest groups each expounding their narrow view of the way things should be.
The huge fires now taking place in the northwest have taken place in the past but possibly were not as destructive as these may be. The interior of BC was traditionally burnt by Indians to enhance game production. The huge fire now burning in the Chilcotin probably would not have been nearly so bad had it taken place 100 years ago.
In many cases fires are the best solution to the "overstocking" problem since the timber is so poor the lumber companies won't take it as a gift.
For the record, I support the timber industry. Much of my family made their living from logging and lumber production as did I. The managers of the forests though are just like the managers of the economy. Sometimes they screw up! Representatives of each faction pursue their own agenda and, hopefully, it balances out.
By the way, we are presently under evacuation notice and I am spending much of my time working on my own fire fighting equipment instead of gunsmithing! Regards, Bill.

Bill, DFP... "darn fine post" and I agree wholeheartedly. The timebr industry (which I too support) has seldom taken responsibility for its share of the current probem.

Sorry guys. I have to call BULLSHIT on blaming the timber industry for the fires.

Ski+3
Kalispell, MT

Skibum,
The timber industry is not responsible for the current fires but the intensity of the fires is in many cases a result of poor practices in the distant past. Timber workers are seldom responsible for the starting of a fire and are in fact, the first line of defence in the event of a fire. In BC, workers are a resource which is often underutilized when it comes to fire fighting and control. Our fires are much worse due to years of accumulation of fuel. Regards, Bill.

As of Friday afternoon; Red Flag warning for central and western MT. Continued HOT,WINDY and LOW HUMIDITY conditions expected at least through Saturday evening. Dry thunderstorms expected as well. NOT what we needed.

The fires around Lincoln are burning at a good rate and are still not contained. Monday and Tuesday were the smokiest conditions We have ever encountered in my area. Locals in their 70's and 80's stated it was the worst they could recall.

Bow season is weeks away with NO relief in sight. A very deppresing summer. We were green in May/June for about....... four or five weeks, then brown took over the green. More over one hundred degree days in July alone than in most TWENTY YEAR periods!!! thats a hell of a statistic.

Pray that the weather pattern changes a bit to allow a good Alaskan cold front to dip down and give us a few good days of RAIN or better yet, wet snow.

FN in MT

Has this been posted yet?

http://www.osei.noaa.gov/Events/Fires/

Any similarity between the management objectives, stumpage values, cutting prescriptions etc. on Crown lands (Canadian public land) and USFS lands are purely coincidental. Unfortunately, the differences in the way the Crown manages their resources have become the subject of an extremely contentious trade dispute between the US and Canada. Although I am personally and professionally neutral on this matter, I admire and respect the Canadian government’s partnership and commit to the Forest Industry. On the other hand, I have only disdain for the dysfunctional and totally inept USFS. However, if the USFS embraced the same principles as the Crown, I can assure you that with the sites, timber quality, volume and infrastructure that that are available on USFS lands, the current need to import lumber into the US would not exist. For the record, I have business interest on both sides of the 49th.

In addition to the exclusion of fire from the ecosystems, overstocking on US public lands has developed because of the failure to intensively manage the sites after over story removal harvests have been completed. Initially, the concept to exclude fire from the stands was based on preserving and protecting the standing old growth inventories until it could be harvested. From the beginning of North American forestry, fire was contemplated as one of the tools to be reintroduced into the management prescription of second growth stands. Throughout the private industrial forest ownership in the US, fire has been extensively used to promote regeneration and reduce fuels from stand improvement projects (pre-commercial thinning, etc.). By no means can the forest be fire proofed, and people who insist on building their homes in the woods cannot totally reduce the risk to their structures from potential fire damage.

The worst possible scenario is now playing out on USFS lands. For all practical purposes, the majority of the people in the US oppose any further old growth logging and the corresponding conversion of federal lands to second growth management. It is the people’s ground, and although I believe this position is wrong-headed, their wishes must be respected. Unfortunately, the environmental community is also vigorously opposing commercially viable harvests of the understory stands as well. These stands are present as an outcome of protecting the old growth from fires and the failure to adequately invest in post-harvested stand improvement projects (thinning, etc.). The condition of today’s Forest Service stands are hardly a surprise to the professional forestry community. However, the complete meltdown over the past 20 years of Gifford Pinchot’s vision of forest management on USFS lands has dismayed, shocked, and surprised many professional resource managers. The management objectives that were initiated over a hundred years ago by Teddy Roosevelt’s administration are now stuck mid-stream and all hell is breaking loose. As a forester with well over 35 years of experience in the field throughout North America, it is my professional opinion that the ongoing damage to the USFS ecosystems and the irretrievable loss of our Nation’s timber wealth can squarely be place at the feet of the environmental community and their minions in the USFS.

Now, a few housekeeping issues:

1) The “Era of Exploitation” is an integral part of the curriculum at forestry universities throughout North America. This study is an open acknowledgment and review of the history, economics and polices that supported the environment-insensitive logging practices of the past. Every first year forestry student gets a full dose of this stuff. On the other hand, when was the last time the Wilderness Society advocated reverting productive forestland from roadless or Wilderness status to multiple-use, or the Sierra Club championed the commercial harvest of the overstocked stands on public lands? A number of us and our families filled their lungs with a great deal of smoke and particulate this weekend because of the advocacies of the enviros, but you damn well better believe that we will not make any apologies or acknowledge their responsible for any thing related to these ongoing catastrophic fires.

2) I have personal knowledge of scores of proposals that have been offered to the USFS to utilize the volume in many of the overstocked stands throughout the National Forest system. The vast majority of these proposals are just languishing in the Forest Service archives as we all bear witness to the ongoing destruction of ecosystems by the current crop of catastrophic wildfires. The industry has the technology, the will, and financial capability to operate in an environmentally sensitive fashion in these overstocked stands. Moreover, it can produce commercially viable products (lumber and/or panels) from many of the trees in these stands. The USFS must stop behaving like a bunch of deer frozen in the envrio’s headlights and find the professional courage to make these trees available to the industry on a long-term basis and begin the process of recovering the health of their ecosystems.

3) If consumer demand for forest products continues to grow as projected and the USFS persists in burning up their timber rather than managing it (again, they own 46 % of the total US softwood inventory), yes indeed many of the US forest products companies and building product consumers will continue to pursue off shore opportunities.

I fervently believe that the environmental damage that occurred during the rein of the timber barons will pale in comparison to the calamities wrought upon us by today’s elite environmental organizations. CP.

On the 18th of January at the edge of Australias nation capitol, we lost over 500 houses and 4 lives because of a wild fire that started in the hills from lightening strikes. the fires started in the national park, and one of the fires that became the most devastating, and also burn't my house down, could have been put out on the 1st day! National parks personnel in charge were worried about the damage to the ecosystem if they used dozers to round it up, and the lady in charge at the fire, who had no experience, sent the firefighters home because she thought it was dangerous. I work for the forest sevice and in the past we would have stayed out until we had the fire under control. Sometimes I think of my former colleagues who are now in there graves, and can see the look of dismay at what the greenies who are now in charge have brought us too. In 1984 when national parks took over what forestry managed fuel reduction burns stopped. I remember all th old timers saying national parks will burn down Canberra one day. We have a coroners inquest into the fire now lets hope the truth comes out. I wish everyone who's affected by the fires in the states all the best, seems this problem with the greenies is universal