Theory: would a good big game SOLID serve as the best bullet selection for heavy cover or heavy timber? I base this on the claims of others at this site on the performance of solid bullets in big bodied game by maintaining a straight wound channel after encountering heavy bone mass. These appear to be some of the most popular bullets for elephant/buffalo/etc. because of this performance trait.

Old theory: use a �brush buster� caliber such as 45-70, 30-30, 35 Whelan, etc. with a heavy-for-caliber bullet to bust through the brush. Lighter bullets will be deflected more easily than heavier bullets, etc.

Newer theory: the �brush buster� school of thought is incorrect and one should use a bullet with HIGH RPM when hunting in heavy cover/heavy timber to minimize deflection from point of aim.

Why do I ask? I didn�t witness the following but heard the story first hand from where it took place.

My deer hunting buddy had a relatively rare chance (for this year) at a nice big-bodied/large racked deer when he was hunting next to a river with fairly heavy timber all around. The deer was walking along the other side of the river and presented a shot of about 100 yards distance. He was using a 308 Win with soft point bullets for sure and my recollection is that the bullet weight was 150 grains. He took the shot and after pulling the trigger saw a tree branch of about 1� diameter fall into the river. The deer ran away into an open wheat field and appeared not to be hit and fully healthy.

Would he have hit the deer with a solid?

Thanks in advance should you take the time to respond.

Reed

Now, if your bullet deflects, would you rather your wounding shot be from a light small bore bullet, or a large heavy bore bullet?

Every bullet that hit something keyholed but if something was close it might get hit but now where you aimed or with the nose of the bullet.

This is the first I have heard of the high rpm theory. I don't think it makes sense. I think it's kinetic engergy that will tear the bush away and momentum that will push it aside.

quote:

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Originally posted by shall:
NRA just did a study. It was in American Hunter. All diameters did the same. Round nose heavies showed no advantage.

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This article was also in Handloader magazine. If I can find it, I will let everyone what issue it was and who wrote it.

Once a bullet hits ANYTHING on its way, its directions are unpredictable.

There is absolutely no hard and fast rule what one bullet would do as compared to another.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul H:
Modern theory is don't hit the branches, as the bullet will deflect unpredictably.

Now, if your bullet deflects, would you rather your wounding shot be from a light small bore bullet, or a large heavy bore bullet?

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I couldn't have said it better. Assuming you couldn't see the obstructions when you took the shot, I'd take the large heavy bore bullet.

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Good Shooting!

I just had to say that...sorry

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

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Originally posted by Robert D. Lyons:
This article was also in Handloader magazine. If I can find it, I will let everyone what issue it was and who wrote it.

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Gary Sciucchetti.
One of the better US gunwriters, I daresay :-)

Carcano

No, he didn't go to the other side which will probably be viewed rather poorly here, but he felt very confident that the deer was healthy. Had he the slightest inclination that the deer might have been hit we would have been after it as it was apparently a nice deer.

A visceral feeling on his part but he's 67 and I'm 37 so I don't tend to tell him much...

Reed

quote:

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Originally posted by P H Barker:
Reed,
About 20 years ago, an article was published by one of the gun writers concerning his tests on bullet deflection in brush. He made a setup with several wooden dowels of different diameters in front of his target. He shot numerous calibers and bullet weights at different velocities thru this (real extensive tests). All bullets showed deflection and/or breakup, if I recall correctly.

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I don't know whether we read the same article (probably did), but in the one I remember, the author reported as you said, but when you looked at the data, the .416 or .404, I forget which, was NOT much or at all deflected, but he didn't make anything of it because he didn't consider it a realistic cartridge for the North American audience he was writing for. Or didn't want to make their organs shrivel up when they realised they were using sub-caliber weapons.

Never forgot that selective reporting.

I wasn't so much looking for a "solution" to the problem as much as a way to reduce any deflection relative to the target.

I typically carry a 308 Norma w. 165gr HPBT GK's. I'm very happy with that setup for my "typical" Kansas whitetail hunting. I've been thinking that when I hunt the heavier cover/timber, like this past season, that I now have yet another reason (excuse) to get a heavier hitter...375 H&H, 338 Lapua, or perhaps something else.

Thanks again,

Reed

Good luck and good shooting

If I could illustrate/expand on what George Hoffman posted...

I shot a buck in 2000 up in northern WI with my 375. I was in a really thick boggy area and the deer was at about 40 yards, the limit of my ability to see. According to the 1.7 nanosecond look I got through the scope, I had (I thought) a clear shot at the shoulder and took it. The deer went down with a spine shot about 18" from my point of aim.

Upon inspection of the now dead deer, I find a perfect silhouette of a 235gr X-bullet in the hide on the entrance side.

My bullet hit something, but stayed together enough to kill. Would a 235gr Speer done as well? Don't know for sure, but I doubt it. The integrity of the X-bullet had to help.

Tim

But I have shot through a lot of brush, and I have noticed that the big heavies get to the game on the other side more often than the light fast ones. That's not scientific study, just my observation.