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Good news or Bad news? After hearing great things about the trophy bulls in the Big Lagoon elk zone years ago... I've been applying for it ever since. Many years later I finally drew it. Now I'm realizing I should have done more recent homework. I'm told things have really changed and it sounds like the chances of a big bull are really slim (no serious trophy bulls have been taken in many years). But its definitely not over hunted and the genetics should still be there. The area is just really overgrown and the elk are spread extremely thin. I don't mind putting in the time and working hard but on the other hand this is likely the only CA bull elk tag I'll draw in my life so I'd hate for it to be in a zone with little or no chance of a big bull. In the last week I've spoken with several residents in the area, the game warden Lieutenant (I happened to hunt with him in the past - both up there and down here years ago), the area DFG biologist, successful local guide, successful hunter from last year, etc. All were helpful and the conversations yielded some good news, some bad. Bottom line - I'm more confused than ever! I have another week or so to decide to keep the tag or trade it in to get my points back. Its a great problem to have so I'm not complaining... just torn. Now I realize that a person has a much better chance of a huge bull in the other zones up there but that isn't an option for me now. Does anyone have additional RECENT info on the Big Lagoon elk season under the new zone arrangement? Thanks for any help and insight, Kyler | ||
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You know if you trade the tag in, you'll never draw a bull tag again... I would go for it. The harder you hunt, the bigger your bull will be.  | |||
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If anyone is going to find a bull elk it's going to be you - you probably spend more time in the field than most. Keep the tag and enjoy the hunt, maybe just don't be too picky. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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Trade it in...you are young. You will draw another one within the next 10 years. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Trade it in and retain your points, put in for the Northwestern CA either sex Roosevelt elk hunt in the future. The elk have pretty much left the Big Lagoon hunt area. | |||
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I remain undecided... Skinner, From what I've learned you're exactly right. But I've also heard that there are very few elk on public land in the Northwestern zone and you end up paying big bucks (in one case I heard $7K) to access a trophy bull on private land. That seems like it defeats the purpose of waiting 20 years to draw a tag. | |||
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It's a rough call. Even here in Arizona a bull tag can be a little difficult to come by but not that bad. Meat wise, cow tags are a piece of cake. You might actually miss being drawn one out of four or five years. Bull tags can take several years but you can get lucky twice in a row. If it didn't really take you that long to draw, go for the hunt and start over with the points after a hopefully successful hunt. Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
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Kyler I'd do that math one more time. The odds are that you will not be drawn again in your lifetime for almost all of the Bull Elk tags here in California. As for trophy dreams, they are just that. FWIW Dave "We are all here for a short spell; so get all the good laughs you can. Everything is funny as long as it is happening to Somebody Else." Will Rogers | |||
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I have been putting in for a CA Tule cow tag for the last +10 years and still havent drawn... Go on the hunt!!! | |||
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Kyler- I'd keep the tag. While I haven't hunted with you, from others I have heard that you are not only persistent and knowledgeable but are able to locate game under anything but optimum conditions. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that you'll not only come up with a good bull but have a memorable time doing so. Please keep us posted. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Take the hunt. It's far better to have the hunt than to have the points. If, like you say the elk have been moving out of there, then it's only going to get worse by waiting another 10-15 years. Don't catch yourself saying, "Dang, I should have taken that hunt all those years ago." It's getting R-E-A-L hard to get drawn here in AZ. I drew a rifle bull tag 2 years ago here, never fired a shot. The rifle bull tag before that one was in '92. I don't put in for the "trophy" areas here either. I figure by the time I get drawn for another rifle bull tag here, I'll be using a cane. Take the hunt. Life's too short not too, believe me. I'm going to have to start buying out of state tags to hunt elk if I'm going to be able to call myself an "elk hunter" anymore... Good luck to you. Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor | |||
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Okay...I am convinced...go on the hunt Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Cemetaries are full of people that didn't plan on ending up dead and left many things undone. Never pass on the chance to go on a trip, especially one that you need to draw a seriously limited tag for. You don't know when the bell will toll for you. Go on the trip and be grateful that you got the chance to go. Many others never will have the chance. | |||
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What seems to be the problem there in California. In most states that have any concern at all about their wildlife, if the animals are disappearing the state is going to come in and find out why and do something about it. From what I read on here California just doesn't seem to care about hunting that much. | |||
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Its the 5000 people putting in for the same 2 tags! | |||
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Yes, but the question is, why is there only 2 tags? | |||
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Because 1 million people moved in... | |||
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For better or worse... after speaking with the local game warden in the area (who I happen to know and is a serious hunter) one last time today I made up my mind and returned the tag to retain my bonus points. I've made mistakes in the past so if I never draw another CA bull tag it won't be my first mistake. Don't think I didn't consider this VERY carefully and agonize over it tremendously. Now I only wish I would have done a little more homework before my application. After discussions with the local DFG game warden, local DFG elk biologist in charge of the hunt, rather successful local guide, a successful local hunter from last season, and several other people - I came to the conclusion that without any true trophy bulls being taken in many years this wouldn't be the best use of my max points. While I never hoped to take a record book bull, for what is essentially a once in a lifetime tag I really wanted at least a chance at a mature 6x6. These people were all EXTREMELY helpful and I believe truthful. While none of them were pessimistic, none said there had been any trophies taken in the last decade or so. If it were to be only an excuse to hunt that's one thing, but I'm lucky enough to get to do some sort of hunting all year round. Over the years I've guided for elk several seasons but never had a chance to take a trophy of my own. While I may never draw another CA bull elk tag, if I took this tag and got skunked or took a little bull there would be almost no chance of every drawing again. In future years I'll do more homework before I apply. Believe me its not like I don't take chances to go out on a limb for hunts. Despite the slow economy I dug deep and completed two hunts last year for deer tags I drew in KS and MT. But those had better odds of taking mature animals and by retaining my points in CA I at least have a shot at drawing a tag with better odds for a mature animal. In years past in CA I've drawn the G3 (Goodale area) buck tag, alternate on a Tule elk bull and a Likely Tables antelope tag (took a B&C buck) so maybe I've used up all my draw luck in CA or maybe it's made me overly optimistic to draw a good bull tag. Furthermore if I've angered the gods of the CA tag drawings, I still have a pile of bonus points for elk in both UT and WY so I may get a good bull yet. And YES... I have been doing my homework a little better on where to hunt in those states. Thanks for all your advice and encouragement, I did consider it and took the decision very seriously. Great hunting with great hunters, Kyler | |||
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Kyler, I am sorry I didn't see this earlier. I live up there about 30 miles south. Call Fred Grundman 1 707 7645744. He killed a big elk last year in the same area and his in-law killed a monster Royal with Fred Guiding him the year before. He also owns one of the (if not) best gunshops in California. Fred and His dad Paul have built lots of rifles for me over the past 40 years. Damn I wish I was back up there, You could stay at my place for free and run back and forth. Frank | |||
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Hi Frank, Thanks for the input. I spoke at length with Fred and while he was extremely helpful it didn't sound like a real good situation. Maybe he was just modest on the size of bulls they had taken, but the reports I got from he and some other people that saw their bulls had me concerned. Either way it sounded like they took much better animals than any other hunters and he lives right there and really knows the area. He definately sounds like he knows what he's doing and really went out of his way to offer good information. The game warden is estimating that word is out on "Fred's hunting spot" and it will be hit pretty hard this year. Thanks again, Kyler | |||
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Big +1 ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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