I hope to draw a Mtn Goat tag this year in a State which allows either sex harvest. My question is, is there a big difference in a Billy and a Nanny?? The goat would be mounted Lifesize. I know that nannies' horns can be longer, but do they have beards? I will do the hunt on my own and I have seen the goats many times, but never paid much attention to the differences between the sexes.

Thanks

Urination Posture

Probably the best feature in identifying a mountain goat's sex is urination posture. The male stretches forward with the front legs while keeping the hind legs stationary. The female stands in place, sometimes moving the hind legs apart, then squats to situate her rump closer to the ground.

At close range, when goats are still in summer pelage, the genitealia may be observed. By autumn, however, the winter coat generally obscures the scrotum, but the black patch of the female is visible when the tail is raised, regardless of coat length.

Body Size and Configration

Body size differnces between male and female goats 3 years of age and younger cannot reliably distinguished in the field. In animals 4 years of age and older, males are usually larger than females, standing 3 to 6 inches higher at the shoulder and slightly longer in body length.

Muscular development of the males' shoulders and the depth of the chest is greater than that of females. Suble facial features may include a more angular appearance in males, although 1-and 2-year-olds retain a blocky appearnce due to the shorter snouttypical of juveniles.

Horns

Males and females both have shiny, black horns which grow from a bony core. Mountain goats do not shed their horns. An increment of growth is added to the horn annually. During the first year of life, the horns continue to grow throughout the winter so a distinct ring is not created, although a ridge or indentation in the horn often occurs. The majority of horn growth occurs during the first 2.5 years. The age of a goat maybe determined by counting the annual growth rings which are formed each winter except the first year. For example, the horn of a 5 year-old goat harvested in the fall will show 4 visible rings.
The male's horns curve back in a greater more uniform arc. The female's horns tend to curve more toward the tip although this feature is visible.

Average horn lengths for adults male's range from 8 to 10 inches and for adult females from 7.5 to 10 inches depending on the area of the state from which they are taken. Although the length of a male's horns may not exceed those of a female, the circumfence of the horn at the base is greater. A careful observer will notice that there is a less space between the horns of males than females. Basal horn circumference for males range from 4.3 to 5.8 inches while in females circumfence is from 3.5 to 5.0 inches.

Length of the horn in relation to the ear is one field indication of age. From the age of 1 year the ears are at least 4 inches long,reaching 5.5 inches in some adult males.In yearlings, the horns are equal or less the length og the ear. In 2-years-old the horns exceed the ear length by 1 or 2 inches, or up to half again the length of the ear. The horn to ear length ratio in adults is viriable, but the horns are at least half again as long as the ears, and they may achieve double the length of the eares. If the horn appear to be full-length, but the nose seems short, the animal is probably a 2-or3-year old, and the othe body characteristics should be checked.

Yes--- both nannies & billies have beards. My onlu suggestion is to go as late as you can so the coats will be at the fullest. I wish now I had my goat mount done in a half body mount, He had great pantaloons.

Good info from scratch. I'd like to add a couple more ways to tell billies from nannies.

A billy will usually be alone or with one or maybe two other billies. Usually, the only time they join the ladies is during the breeding season. Billies tend to be in rougher country due to not having little ones in tow. A billy has a fairly distinct "roman nose" visible from the side if you are close enough. Most billies will have a yellow tinge to them due to rolling in urine wallows. Billy goat horns tend to curve slightly back when seen from the side, a nanny's horns are fairly straight.

Both billies and nannies have beards and thick coats. Nannies will have longer and thinner horns, but a billy makes a better looking mount. You should try to fill your tag with a billy if possible. Goats make a great trophy. I've seen billies and nannies mounted side by side and the billies are simply more impressive.

I took a good billy in Colorado 2 years ago and found it easy to locate herds of nannies and kids. Billies took a little more looking. But they will be there somewhere. I guess you could locate a herd of nannies and kids and if you can't find the billies, take a female.

Mac

Scratch,

Sent you a PM.

Redial

Redial,

I got your message, however, I dont know your friend. I did look up his address and Phone # for you. Apperently we once lived next door(or pretty close) at one time, until I moved. If you like I will e-mail them to you or however you want.

Scratch

What happens to the carcass? In the UK they smell so bad (alive) you can stalk them from half a mile downwind.

US regs for deer and elk seem very strict about recovering the meat before the trophy, how about for these?

I always wondered just how you told them apart. Thanks.

Thanks Scratch

Much appreciate the effort! Please email whatever you found, if you don't mind.

Cheers!

Redial

Is it also true that only billies have the thick gland behind the base of the horn?

redial,

I sent you the information about your friend from Riverton.

Scratch

WOW!! What a bunch of great responses! Seriously, thanks to ALL, especially Scratch. Great to get real responses here at AR.

I have watched the goats many times, but always wondered what the close-up differences are. Now I feel better. I hope a tag comes my way this year.

Good Luck to All of You Guys.

I highly recommend the book, "A Beast the Color of Winter" by Douglas H. Chadwick. Chadwick is a biologist who spent years observing mt goats, and the book details all facets of goat life. There are many excellent photos and drawings in the book as well.

Once you've seen a nanny and a billy up close, you'll be able to see the difference quite easily.

Hunt as late in the season as possible for the best hide; a December mt goat hide is amazing, as much a trophy as the horns.

Goats are by far one of the most magnificent trophies. They are one of those love to hate critters. You'll cuss yourself to death while out hunting them, but no sooner than you get home, your ready to do it all over again.

What you have been told about horns and habits are mostly true, but not always. Horn characteristics of a nannie have often times turned out to be a billy, and vice versa. This past season, my buddy took a nannie that was sitting on top of a mountain by her lonesome...all characteristics of an older billy. The truth be told, the nannie he shot was almost arrowed by me, but after the nannie revealed us, I gave him the sign to shoot her. Four shots and then she jumped 200'. Pound for pound they are the toughest animal alive.

Another author to look at on hunting goats is Duncan Gilchrist. He actually has a movie out you can purchase. Duncan passed only a few months ago, but his work is raved as some of the best.

Here are two pics from my late Sept goat hunt on the coast of Alaska. First the nannie, then my billy.





Here are some pictures I took to give you an idea on what you may stumble upon.







[ 02-02-2003, 10:44: Message edited by: Dalliwacker ]

Dalliwacker - excellent photos - yep, goat hunting in Alaska in addictive - thanks again - KMule

MGC

Please let us know when and if you drew a tag. Where did you apply?

If anyone applies for area 2 in Wyoming please contact me id you graw and I'll help you out greatly. The very first time I ever applied I drew a once-in-a-lifetime hunt here in Wyoming.

I only hunted five days and I still can't get over these awesome animals. The country they call home is breath taking.

I took a nice Billy at two hundred yards, his bases were 5 5/8" and horn length 9 7/8" long, his body weight (Live) was 301 pounds.

When my taxidermist mounted him life size, he ordered the largest form they made. The form was still three inches to short in height and two inches short in length.

Good-Luck on your hunt

Scratch

Dennis: During the months I have Hunted Mt. Goats (September, October and once in November) the males had the prominent and obvious (through a spotting scope anyway) gland behind the horns. The females (the ones with and tending the kids) had no visible glands behind their horns. I have checked numerous times with spotting scopes to verify this. The best way to observe this verifying feature of sex is of course to get above the Goats. That is also the best way to get close to the Goats - go way around them and get above them. You will get much closer more often to a particular Goat by circling, getting above and then quietly approach to spotting scope verifying range. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that judging Mt. Goats for horn length or trophy status is very difficult to do!
Until reading one of the above posts I have never heard of the Nannies having this prominent gland. I have seen several Nannies on the ground and at taxidermist but have never seen this gland. I notice in the above wonderful photo montage that the Goat identified as a Nannie has no visible gland. Please advise if my observations and assumptions are wrong.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Thanks again for the added info. I am always amazed at how helpful we are to each other. Thanks for the time it took you to post the pics Dali.

We put in for goats here in Utah. This year the DWR is allowing a Nanny only hunt. My wife wanted to try it. She should have enough points to have a good opportunity of drawing.

If I can be of any help please ask. Thanks Again.

Although unable to see on the photos, the nannies do have the bumper pad located behind their horns. The pads on the big billies are just a little easier to see is all. I determined this was a billy by looking at this goats buddy from below (he was up and feeding), the sex was very evident. The billy I took was bedded, but slightly larger than the one feeding so I felt pretty confident I was taking a good billy...and he is.

Not only novices but even proffessional Guides whith much Rocky Mountain Goat hunting experience could greatly benefit by watching the educational Video titled "Is it a Billy or is it a Nanny".

The British Columbia (Canada) Ministry of Water,Land and Air Protection lends this excellent Video to Hunters at no charge in an effort to educate Mountain Goat Hunters and reduce unnesesary Female (Nanny) kill.

If you have trouble obtaining a copy trough your local supplier and for the sake of saving a Nanny, I would be happy to copy this Video for you for the cost of tape and postage.

Happy hunting and safe Trails-----Carl.

Very nice pics Ovis, as well as a nice billy you harvested.

You are right about cussing the hunt and then getting back home and wanting to do it all over again.

My best memories are my MT goat hunt and I hope to be able to do it again. Next time I have to talk someone into going with me.