Seafire,

No hunting experience with the 55 gr NBT but lots of experience with 80 gr Win PSP and 95 gr Nos/Win BT's.

My main deer hunting gun for years was a .243 Browning BAR that I bought back in early 80's. We used beagles to trail up deer in heavy North Florida swamp/hardwoods/planted pine lands and still hunted on South Georgia plantation land. Lots of runnning shots is why the BAR was chosen. At that time I could only get 80 gr PSP and 100 gr PSP (Winchester or Rem, I never shoot Rem's as my brother had several snap on him). The BAR would group the 80 grainers like a good bolt action. It would not group the 100 gr bullets under 3". I don't know if the twist rate was wrong for the 100 gr bullets or what...just would not shoot em worth a dang. My brother and I killed truck loads of deer with 80 gr Win PSP's (limit is 2 per day - 2.5 month season ).

Everything going good until 2001 season when I shot a NICE 9pt buck in Georgia. 100 yard shot, broadside while he was working a scrape. Deer went down as usual, doing the 360 degree rear leg kick around which is normal to lung shots. What was not normal was that he jumped up and ran OFF I looked for a hour, went and got my borhter and looked for another 2 hours, went and got a cold nose trail dog and looked for another couple of hours. NEVER FOUND A SINGLE DROP OF BLOOD.

The next day I went and bought some new Winchester Supreme 95 gr BT's. They shot okay, around 2" - 2.5" groups but consistant. The next season I shot my best buck ever, a 151 5/8 B&C (scored as an eight point) 11pt. 6 1/2 years old, 190 lbs at the end of the rut, not a mark on him, BEAUTIFUL.

After the season I decided to retire ole Betsy and get a larger caliber deer rifle. I decided on a 7mm-08 Rem 700 Ti. While I was working on hadloads for my new gun I decided to order some different factory loads for my .243 to try. I still want to take her out of retirement from time to time and I found some 95 gr Hornady SST in the Custom Load. Well, ole Betsy is back to a true 1" grouping gun that I know will work on deer size game.

DON'T USE THE 55 BT ON DEER (even Keys Deer...lol). Try the Hornady loads in factory or a 85 gr Barnes TSX, 95 gr Noser BT or 95 gr SST's in handloads. You'll not regret it!

I wouldnt try it and I cant think of any reason why anyone else would. Just use a 100 grain bullet.

Yeah, I know! I have not been a big fan of that sort of thing myself. Too Small of a caliber with too small of a bullet, and it is a Varmint bullet!

However, I have a call into Nosler's tech guy on this. As a backstop I usually use a good old Oregon Pine tree. I was out testing some 243 loads with Blue Dot, and started out with a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip for the 243 tests.

What was not supposed to happen was the damage that I saw the Nosler do to a pine that was about 6 to 7 inches in diameter. Not only did it completely penetrate the tree, but the damage on the backside of the tree, ( turned into tooth picks as I call it). Once again all of this damage occurred with the BTs doing an MV of 2250 to about 3000 fps.

At the lower to mid range velocities, they actually did more damage than the velocities over 3000 fps.

I have heard of guys that have used Rem 30/06 acceleraters ( 22 cal/55grain bullet in a Sabot format) who think they are the greatest deer killers around. This was in Wisconsin and Minnesota, where you can get some pretty big whitetails.

The major focus of these tests for me, are for youth loads.
However, what I saw these 55 grain ballistic tips do to a tree, surprised me. I would have no qualms about using these on the average black tail here in Oregon.

Some of our deer here, only rival some big Coyotes in parts of the country ( in body size or weight) where the Coyotes have great food sources. No one would hesitate to put down a dog chasing deer, that weights 75 to 90 lbs with a 55 grain BT out of a 6mm round. Our deer are long legged versions of that.
Better for Deer McNuggets than making steaks out of.

A light rifle, like Rugers compact or Ultra Light, in 243 might be a good thing with this load. I will also look at the same thing in a 260 Rem, which it is chambered in, and a 100 grain ballistic tip.

Thanks for any experiences shared.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

With about 98% of the shots, the 55/6mm BT will give devastatingly quick kills on deer-sized game. An occasional shot from an obtuse angle that would be lethal with another projectile might only create a very bad superficial wound with the BT, thus the normal (and fairly wise) recommendation against it. However, many people forget that the BT is made with the Solid Base design. This design provide penetration all out of proportion to the rapid expansion of the BT, and is largely responsible for the deeper-than-expected "wound" channels you have found in your tree shooting.



You are correct that we normally perceive hoofed game which may only be the same size as some predators as being much larger and tougher. For the most part, animals of the same size necessitate similar power and penetration.



Someone will undoubtedly scream "meat damage!" I've never seen a deer rib that I would take home whether shot or unshot, and most shots I make are through the ribs, so "meat damage" is irrelavent. In fact, a deep-penetrating bullet has the potential to go all the way to the ham on a lengthwise shot, and thus do real meat damage. Even large muleys don't require rhinocerous-penetrating power and toughness, and I strongly contend that more deer go unrecovered each year from the use of bullets that expand too little rather than those which expand too much.



No, I don't recommend the 55/6mm for deer, but I wouldn't turn down a good shot at a deer I wanted if it were what was available to me.

Say what you will, but seeing is believing. 3 years ago I shot a 170 class South Dakota Whitetail with a 55 gr. NBT out of an old Rem. 600. A broadside shot, bullet connected and the deer ran about 80 yards before collapsing. He was dead when I got to him. When I gutted him, there was no exit hole, and the chest was completely massacred. This deer was probably 5 1/2 years old and was a fully mature rutting buck. Big, heavy deer. The rifle, bullet, and shooter all did their job that day. I hear a lot of guys knocking this caliber, but as stated, seeing is believing.

Bullshit.
I shot a 105 lb spikehorn with the 243 Winchester supreme 55 gr BT. First and last time I try that.
Perfect broadside shot. 55 yards. The bullet traveled down the rib cage, and exited the briscuit. One piece of shrapnel pierced some sort of artery by chance, and I recovered the animal. Mind you ,that factory load runs between 3850-3950 fps.
Theres no reason to use that bullet on any deer sized game.
I could'nt even get a pass through on a 45 lb coyote.
The 55 grain BT is a terrific mess maker on varmints and stuff, but it's no deer bullet.
Trigger

I agree with trigger, a friend of mine shot at a red spiker a few weeks ago with a 243 90gn BT and it is still running.
Looked for 6 hours and very little blood.
The range was only 50 meters.
I use them in my 270 but thats a different story!!

Milosmate

I have shot alot of coyotes with that very load and rarely get an exit hole. I have even seen a few coyotes make it 60 or 70 yards with a well placed bullet. Not a good choice at all, for deer, in my opinion.

Trigger,

This reply is not an argument, only an observation.

While you mention that the 55 grain Bullet was exiting the muzzle at 3800 fps range, I found that most of the penetration was done under 3000 fps.

Over that velocity, the penetration was not there, so I gathered the bullet did what it was marketed for at that point, rapid explosive performance vs, expansion.

To the others, I was not looking at this as a " to go to" bullet.
The main point was loads for young shooters. From what I say, as Stoney said, it is the old solid base with a plastic tip, and hollow point cavity.

Unfortunately with only one deer tag a year, and not really knowing anyone who needs to cull a lot of deer, my testing opportunities are limited. However, from Parker Ackley's book, where he speaks of the belief that a 220 Swift was the best deer rifle going, with proper bullets, I believe him as I have found that I respect conclusions and have found the same results in a lot of things that he has.

But if a 22/250 or Swift can be used as a deer rifle, why not light loads in the 243? However, I appreciate the gentlemen that shared their experiences. What was said, still verifies my beliefs that a ballistic tip is a much better deer bullet when the velocity is down, say under 2700 fps MV and under 3000 at least with the 55 grain BT.

I can see where it can both work, as the gentleman from So Dakota shared, and then I can see if the shooter is not aware of the potential parameters and limitations, it is a candidate for failure.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I may have to take it antelope hunting or deer hunting this fall and see what happens.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Like Stonecreek said, it will work fine for 98% of the shots. Keep its limitations in mind, and it'll be lights out Irene.

I've used it in a 6/06 (at 4400 fps) on enough critters from small to lopes and deer to know it'll work just fine.

Like the 22/250 and the Swift, you gotta keep its limitations in mind. But then again for that matter all rounds and bullets have their limitations and you just gotta know when to use them and when not to. And the discipline to stay within its and your limits.

My wife has 3 lope tags and two deer tags for this fall and she will most likely use this load in her 6/06 this fall for all of the above. If she draws cow elk, then we will change over to the 85 TS and all will be fine.

Just my thoughts.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

I've shot quite a few deer with 22-250, 223, 243. I've had good luck most of the time, but occasionally bullets will blow up on the surface with zero penetration. My wife took a deer in the 300 lb. class 2 years ago with 22-250. The deer looked unaffected by the first shot, so she shot him again. On autopsy, both bullets devastated the deer, but neither could penetrate ribs, and were deflected through the back end. One destroyed the nearside hind quarter, and the other emasculated the deer.

She took a doe the same year that dropped at the shot with complete penetration through the rib cage.

All shots were less than 100 yds.

You guys are crazy! How you could use that bullet on deer I'll never know lol. I use that purple tipped 55gr BT on coyotes, crows, and milk jugs. Man that sucker explodes. If you hit a deer shoulder with that I half think it'd just make a big crater on the shoulder without much but maybe a piece of the jacket going through. Obviously, I've never done it and never will. I just want to ask: Why? Why not a 95gr BT or an 80gr. spbt? I suspect if you got through the ribs ok with the 55 it'd really mush up the lungs and heart. For me, it will either not exit a coyote with a tiny hole in or it will make a softball sized hole in it. Eh. lol I know you didn't want an argument type post but an observation one, but I couldn't pass it up. It isn't a flame though. Just telling you how I use the 55BT. Fun bullet to mess around with.

Matthew

Thanks for everyone's responses on this. I got the 'good cop, bad cop" discussion that I was hoping to.

This was just an observsation of mine, and wanted to get feed back from real world experience.

IN 6mm I would tend to settle on the 90 grain and up bullets.
My preferences are the 95 gr partiton, and Hornaday or Sierra, 100 grain round nose and the Speer 105 Spitzer ( is my favorite.)

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Yes it can be done with a 55 gr Nosler BT. I have done it with a couple of large size Minnesota whitetails. The margin of error is razor thin...I won't do it again.

It is not fair to the game when you can't anchor it. Kill humanely...don't let it struggle & run all over the country. Shot placement is still the deciding factor. Use enough gun...


swede

something else to consider -

yooung hunters don't need the heartache and guilt that would come with a botched shot with a bullet such as that!

I will give you some field experiance with a 220 swift. I have shot over 20 whitetails with this cartridge ranging from 20 to 400 yards using 50 or 55 grain Ballistic tips and two deer I used 55 SXSP Now I never lost a deer I had to shoot a couple more than once but not very often but I always took broadside shots or slightly quartering and I did my part I put the bullet where it needed to go. Now would I use this same setup again? NO if I did ever use the 220 swift again I would use the Partition and or X bullet. The cal works good on whitetails but like I said you have to do your part. All the bullets I shot never left the body they went in and smashed the heart and lungs. If I were you I would go to the 95 ballistic tip and if you want a lighter bullet the 85 partition works very well.

Actually to me a premium bullet that is normally far from my first choice, but is for 22 caliber and 6mm is the Barnes X in the XLC set up.

I am pretty impressed with the 85 grain XLC,and it has given both high velocity and low velocity accuracy and performance in my 6mm rifles.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Alot of older 22 cal bulets were useful for both medium game and varmints, for example, the 22-250 55grain core-lokt
in the old green and yellow remington box. They would consistently kill deer with a lung shot.
Specifically, the 55 grain ballistic tip in a 243, (not 22 cal) is a bad idea to even ponder for deer. It was designed to disintigrate on impact.
Forget it, and get atleast an 80 grain bullet, 100's even better.
Trigger

Boy aren't there a few too many experts here...To the guy who calls my story bullshit, I ask, were you there? Because I don't remember you being there and seeing that deer drop. The thread asked for experiences with the 55 NBT, not do you think it is a good choice for deer. Fact is, when you see a deer like that, you grab what rifle you have and shoot until he is dead. For the record, I don't think that is the best round for deer (thus my upgrading to a magnum the next season.) So, for future reference, when a thread asks for experiences, try to keep it to experiences, not your personal opinion on what is good and what is not good medicine for deer.

I've got a tack-driving Model 700 in 6mm Rem and it's a wonderful rifle. But I'd never think of using anything less than the 100gr Nosler Partition. It's more humane in case of a "less than ideal hit" due to brush, the animal moving at the last second, etc.

Sure with a perfectly placed shot under Ideal Circumstances you can kill almost anything with a very light cartridge (a good friend who was a butcher killed countless 3/4 + ton bulls, etc with a .22 rimfire to the forehead). But it's just not a sportsman's choice in the hunting fields. Ideal shots don't happen that often and if ANYTHING goes wrong with the shot the animal is lost or has to be trailed.

I used it for 3 years on coyotes. I used it 1 time on a deer, shot in the lungs, and was an utter failure.I did recover the deer. It does'nt make it a success. That makes me a quick learner. Now if I praised the bullet, because I barely recovered the deer, and continued the use of it for deer, that would make me a slob hunter, and an idiot.

I don't need your blessing or praise about a damn thing.

It's not about being from NY, so don't even go there. It's about using the right tool for the job. I would'nt call "objecting the use of the most fragile varmint bullet in existance on deer" the center of enlightenment.

I'd say it's common sense, but evidently, west of the mississippi, common sense is'nt so common.

I guess if you went to college out here, you did'nt learn very much.

Trigger



Forest Gump also said he was'nt a very smart man.

murftj,
Yeah i'm calling it bullshit,Moron!!!!
I have also used a 55 grain 6mm bullet, and it was a huge failure. I passed up an 11 pointer at 70 yards 2 years ago, because I was carrying that bullet. When I see a deer like that, I use judgement. I don't get shoot-happy like yourself.
If you feel the need to go use this bullet for deer, then by all means, have at it. But sooner or later, you're going
to be the asshole tracking wounded deer for 2 days, so you better eat your wheaties.Pal...
Trigger

Ironic isn't it? You use a name like "triggerhappy" then try to curse me for shooting?! Tell you what, I will put my shooting skills up against yours and we'll see. Maybe you just lack confidence in your ability as a shooter. As for me, I refuse to hunt with anyone who isn't 100% certain in their ability as a shooter, hunter, and sportsman. Tell you what, why don't you spend a little more time practicing and less time on an internet thread bitching about me, and any other person who can talk the talk and walk the walk. Do us all a favor: Don't ever leave your home state of NY until you can learn to hunt with the big boys. Until then, don't waste my or any other persons time. It's obvious you lack in an area that is essential in the harvesting of trophy deer. Keep shooting your spike horns buddy; I won't even waste the time looking at a deer that won't go 140 B&C. Something in me says that shooting a bambi isn't proper to the animal herd or to other sportsmen.

Trigger Hap2 and Murfti,

Come on guys. Name calling each other is not going to prove anything. I didn't put this thread together just to incite two guys to get into it.

We are all fellow shooters on here. Name calling accomplishes nothing constructive.

We all can have different opinions and still respect each other.
If I have learned anything on this board, it is that I can drop my point vs arguing with a fellow shooter and hunter.

These anti hunting idiots just dance with glee anytime our numbers are divided, and personally I don't want to give the smucks the satisfaction.

" Can't we all just get along"? ( who would have dreamed they would be quoting someone like a Rodney King??, LoL)

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

murphtj,
Whats the matter? You don't like my handle? I won't bother humbling you with my shooting skills.
What part do you not get about the 55 grain ballistic tip being "highly" inadequate for whitetail deer?
If you choose to be a slob hunter, thats fine, keep your filthy habits in the Dakotas, and don't preach them around this forum like it's OK.
Trigger

Trigger,

I am sorry but just because someone used a smaller bullet and it worked out for him does not make him a slob hunter.

This post just asked experiences, and both you gentleman gave their experiences. It means neither one or the other is right or wrong.

I have had deer hit solidly with a 300 Win Mag and it went down, and took off into a swamp and I wasn't able to recover it, and I felt pretty pissed about it. But it does not mean a 300 Mag is a lousy round and inadequate for deer hunting.

I also had the opportunity in 1999 to drop a very large deer by local standards, which presented itself to me at 5pm on the last night of a 6 week long deer season. It probably weighed 175 or more pounds on the hoof, where the average deer here is in the 75 to 90 pounds class.

I had put away my 30/06 and the only rifle I had available loaded and ready to go, was a 22 Win Mag Marlin Bolt action.

I had dispatched quite a few deer with the same rifle that had been hit by cars over the year with head shots, and I knew what it could do.

So at 50 yds, I put a shot right between his eyes and down he went. His rack is 6 points on one side, or 12 points by eastern count.

So does that make me a slob hunter? I don't think so.
Does that make a 22 Mag a good deer cartridge, I don't think so either.

Does the loss of the other big deer shot with a 300 Win Mag make it a bad deer cartridge? I don't think so.
Me loosing it and not recovering it in the swamp, does that make me a slob hunter? I can't answer that, but I know I am not the first guy to have that happen nor will I be the last.

We all respect your hunting abilities, and ask that you do the same of others. People leave out the fact that LUCK has its roles in hunting also,,but in its GOOD form and ITS BAD form. I get more of the latter it seems, so I feel blessed when I get some of the good.

It would be my pleasure and honor to be able to go out and hunt with almost anyone I have met on this forum, whether they see eye to eye with me or not. Even Ray Atkinson on here, who has had tons of experience has had experiences that differ from what I have had, and I have had luck and results on things I am sure he has never seen.

Even with the best of everything, in equipment to areas to hunt, it is some sort of a crap shoot no matter how "perfect" it all is.

We are more a brother hood on here than a group of free for all fools. Leave that last M.O. to the anti hunting idiots.

Cheers and Good shooting Trigger!
seafire

Well,
Than good for you seafire/b17g. I've used the bullet extensively over the past 3 years out of my 243, and i'm telling you it outright sucks for deer. If you wish to defend slob hunter, thats your right. Go to a more frequented forum, and post this question some more, and see what you get. Better yet, go shoot a few deer, and check your results, if you can find the deer.
Trigger

So if you have used it for three years, does that mean that you were a slob hunter until you quit using it Trigger?

All I have seen is aggression by one person, and criticism about someone who had success, where the person who is doing the aggression and adding all the criticism had a failure.

I don't care what a person carries, it is his responsibility to make sure that his equipment and his abilities are up to the task at hand, and still understands failures happens.

I'd rather hunt with a person who carries a 243 with a light bullet that can place it where he is aiming at, over a person who hauls a xxx Super Duper mag, and can't hit the state of texas with it at 50 yds.

I am just at a loss most of my life, even after spending 7 yrs in the northeast during college of why they seem to think they are the center of enlightenment and the way to prove a point is " I can sling more slander than you can" attitude.

Trigger I wish you ever success in the field each time you go, but I am not going to glorify this with a response any further.

But as it may come as a shock to you ,as it does most other New Yorkers, but people outside of NY state actually have brains and experiences in matters also. We don't become legends in our own minds. I actually have never met a New Yorker that has ever been wrong about anything or would admit that there may be another valid point over their's.

Just ask one, and see what they say.

and to quote Forest Gump": that's all I have to say bout that".

Well,

I am just going to admit I am a Slob Hunter.

I have lost a deer for not carrying enough gun with a big enough bullet. I have only lost one deer in my 30 yrs of hunting, but one is too many.

That means anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag with a 200 grain Sierra Boattail at 2950 fps is not adequate for deer.

Even though I have a college degree from East of the Mississippi, It is not worth anything, because I have gone west of the Mississippi, so I left any knowledge and experience on the left bank of the Mississippi before I proceeded any farther.

I humbly stand in awe of those, particularly from NY, that know more than I ever will. I am not a smart man by there standards. Who cares about 9 yrs of post high school education, who cares about also being trained as a paramedic and clinical specialist in the army. Who cares that I have been training surgeons on medical products, during surgery at places like the Mayo Clinic, in my life time.
That is something else that is west of the Mississippi so they are not smart men there either. So I know nothing about anatomy, in humans or animals.

I know nothing about shooting because I have only been hunting since about 1966.

I am a Slob Hunter, I support slob hunters, who do not use approved products by citizens of New York. We support those with no common sense.
Every night we kneel down and pray we are lucky enough to have such astute people in our midst to point out what idiots we are according to their standards.

And remember, name calling and pointing out how "stupid" people are who don't share your opinion is the preferred method to prove your point and win an argument, to the enlightened.

Well put, Forest.

Figures you'd think so Einstein.

Hey Seafire, think this would be a bad time to bring up a discussion on the most commonly used caliber by bear hunting eskimos? How about the merits of FMJ .224's for DG? .22rf's for hogs? Well I'm bored and on meds, so lemme know!

Hey Hot Core Buddy;

Yeah I did that trick with the Marlin. Took me a try or two.

Oregon also does not approve of rimfires for deer hunting. Don't think any state does. However it was the only rifle instantly there, and I had confidence in what I had done with putting down wounded deer.

I really think tho, that most states are against their use, not because they feel it is inhumane versus the fact that so many poachers use a rimfire, and it is harder to hear than a centerfire.

It is legal to own a silencer in Oregon, but you can not hunt with one. Cops just want to catch poachers by hearing the shots more than anything else.

When it is hard for me to turn the other cheek, those are the times I put down the good book for a few moments and have to be human again, and then just pray for "sinner forgiveness" like we all do. I can tell you are a Christian man! Some people just make it hard to walk the walk don't they. Just gets me when someone has to start name calling another forum member because they have had different experiences, or luck hunting than someone else. Where has courtesy and respect gone in our society?

That was funny picking out the 'bear hunting eskimos."
The meaning is in the mind of the reader.

YOU have a good week my friend!

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

I will say it again a 55 grain Ballistic tip for deer in a 6mm I would not recommend. As for Commonsense west of the Mississippi you better think before you start running you mouth. I just love when big city people think they are all that and a bag of chips and look down on people from the west when infact I feel sorry for your ass you live in one big cubicle called New York state exactly how many deer have you shot anyway? I think you might want to think about who you are insulting before you sound like ass and since you dont think it is so great out here then you can hunt east of the Mississippi.

Boy, you shits out west are touchy. The blowhard 14 threads ago started in on NY first. Personally, I don't give a fuck what side of the cess pool you live on, it makes no difference to me.
I've spent a few years out in the Denver area, and I enjoyed the surrounding area and people very much. I guess your bound to run into a few geographically prejudice assholes anywhere you go though.(north,south east or west. In this case west)
It's still no excuse to justify the 55 grain bullet on deer though.
Maybe a miserable housecat, but not a deer.
Trigger

Just to help muddy the water. I have killed 3 deer on my ranch with the rifle that was in hand...it was a Sako 222 Mag using 52 grn Sierra match hollow points. Not exactly what one would call a deer load but all deer died on the spot. Nothing over 100 yards. All were standing still. No bullet left over 3 grns. in wt.
I usually have my 7/08 on hand but in these cases...the 222 Mag is not what I would recommend either.
My daughter has a custom Sako 243 that I built her years ago and with factory Fed. 100 grns. nothing has walked away yet in the way of deer.