My friend that went to the Missouri farm with me shot the only decent sized doe we saw. Deer numbers here have dropped significantly. I haven't hunted there since 1998.



Anyway, he shot this doe in the neck at 19 yards with a 30.06 and Remington Core Lokt bullets, 150 grainer. We snuck right up on her laying in a creek bed. As we peaked over the hill, he saw her, backed up and said he had a doe bedded. We both creeped back up to the crest of this hill. I told him to put it in the head or neck because she was tucked up under some windfall. He had a clear shot. BOOM!, she dropped her head and lay motionless. Unfortunately, he forgot his fanny pack with his deer tag. We had to go back to the truck and get it. We were gone about 8 minutes. When we came back, she was gone.



She crawled over the creek, up the ridge, and was bedded again, watching us. Lucky for him he brought his gun back. He put another bullet behind the shoulder and it only blew into the onside lung. That distance was about 33 yards.



Unfortunatley, my camera card was full after the neck picture, but these bullets (factory), did NOT impress me at all. In fact, this is the first time I've ever witnessed bullet 'blow up'. I can only assume that this is also what so many people have experienced with ballistic tips. I have never had this happed with a b-tip.



Here's a photo of her neck, as you can see, only the skin was ripped open. There is no damage to the neck muscles whatsoever:

Looks to me like he almost missed! All I have ta say is there have been more animals killed with corelokts than all other bullets combined over the years. No one ever claimed corelokts were a do all bullet, but they kill quite effectively when well placed.

You are right about the core lokts. I still do not like them. Just like I do not care for a 30-30. Just not my taste.

As far as him almost missing. uh uhh. That hole you see is perfectly broadside to his aim. The doe had her face turned slightly and he shot her right where he was aiming. She was not looking at us.

I used 7X57 core lokt 149 gr this year for the first time - 3 Deer - 3 shots. They worked for me

Is it possible she turned her head at the last minute? It sure looks like an awfully clean cut on the skin...like he grazed her neck. Not at all consistent with a bullet "blowing up"...too linear and clean...

Not doubting your story...just maybe your perception of the shooting.

Before the advent of the premium bullets, I suspect the core-lokts accounted for the majority of game killed. If you visit a wally world, I think you will see a much larger selection of core-lokts for the 270/30-06 than all other factory loads combined. I also suspect the core-lokts out sell every other type and brand of factory ammo (both because they are probably cheaper and they have worked in the past for the buyer). While it is certainly possible one might get a defective bullet, overall, Remington's quality control is probably equal to their competitors. I wish you luck with your bullet of choice in the future.

It also looks to me like it isn't a direct impact. The way the hair is lying indicates a shot that came from north to south and not a direct impact. Even a varmint bullet would do more damage than that in a direct hit. Not picking a side, thats just how it appears.

No side to pick. I called my friend again and we discussed it. We simply do NOT know what direction she was looking. All I saw her butt only when he shot. I was laying on the ground behind him looking over his shoulder so I couldn't see.



I was going by his original story. I think he must have flubbed up and didn't want to tell me. Who knows. But I will retract my statement about it being a 'direct shot' as that is what Brian had told me.



I'm thinking it is definitely a side grazing shot for sure. I decided that after I saw the jaw line hair loss. Can you see it?



But I still like TSX bullets better.

i'm not being judgemental, but a heart/lung shot might have offered a bigger target.

of course, it is easy to do all the monday-morning quarterbacking AFTER the fact. certainly a learning expereince, though, no matter how you look at it.

Well, I agree. But all he could get a good shot at was her head/neck. The shot was only 19 yards...not sure how he flubbed that up.

Oh, well, there's a happy ending. she's in his freezer.

Good call, I see that on the jaw now that you pointed it. I have some triple shocks but haven't done any load development with them yet.

What caliber? Rifle?

Here's what has worked for me:

30.06: 168TSX, 55.0 H4350
.270: 130TSX, 57.0 Re19
300 SAUM: 168TSX, Varget, not sure on charge. I'd have to go downstairs and look it up. To lazy.

I've had a 7mm Rem Mag bullet blow up at about 25 yards before, and it sure didn't look like that. It completely destroyed the shoulder, pulverizing the meat. There wasn't any penetration at all, but lots of bloodshot meat. I would agree with the idea that the bullet creased the animal. Take into consideration the foot pounds of energy at point of impact, and I think you'll agree that this wound wasn't the result of "bullet blowup".

I bought some to try in my .280 and 7rem mag. I just haven't got to it. I also hunt my .270 with 130gr partitions almost exclusively anymore. I'll have to play with them this winter. I split the stock on my .280 and the 7mag may be sold so then again maybe not till spring. If they made them in .323 I'd be all over them.

Doc .I have used 180 gr Corelokts in 30-06 for moose with excellent results. One broadside at 60-70 yds complete penetration and onelarge cow agin around 70 yds facing almost straight on. Shot directed to lower brisket and directed to behind off side shoulder. Again complete penetration . In both cases the moose travellled less than 25 yds. The cow in fact only made it across a narrow trail. Moose are not known for bang-splat as they seem rather resistant to shock and often stand or waddle off showing little reaction other than falling over. Another moose shot a bit back of ideal showed signs of good penetration but did make it to the next poster who dropped it. Most of the group I hunted with used Corelokts and those boys had a string of averaging 4 moose per year for 17 or 18 years.
The ones I used were 180 gr pointed soft points. Perhaps the 150's have a lighter jacket.

Doc, I think you have it figured out but want to add a couple of things to the kettle. I'm not taking the time to look up factory claims on the load your buddy was using but I'd guess around 3000 fps, maybe a bit less. CoreLokts aren't that tough. Get the impact velocity down around 2400-2500 and they do fine. TSX's seem to be garnering a good rep. and I'll probably try them some day or another. Tell your friend to pick up some 165's or back up a bit next time. Also tell him for me that head/neck shots are a crap shoot, they always seem to move just as the gun goes off.....go for the lungs/heart. 'course you could always back him up with a short range, milder cartridge, like a 30-30.

Very astute observation, Doc. I'd bet the farm that the bullet grazed her and split the skin. Once a friend and i were shooting at some hogs. He fired at one with his 270 and it screamed like a banshee as it slowly sunk to the ground. Since it wasn't dead, I shot it with my 257 Ackley.(I had already killed 2 other seconds before). When we walked over to the pigs, he had grazed the top of the ones back. The wound looked very similar to the wound on the doe. The skin had a sort of "ruptured" look to it. Incidently, I killed all three of those hogs woth a 100 gr. Remington Cor-Lokt bullet at around 3300 fps at the muzzle.
I also shot a buck with this rifle/bullet combo at around 240 yrds. The bullet entered the point of the shoulder, angled back and stopped under the skin behind the far shoulder. If memory serves it weighed about 65 grs., which is about 65% retainage; on par with a Partition. I use 150 gr. & 165 gr. Cor-Lokts exclusively in my 308 Scout. Of course I've never killed anything larger than deer & hogs, but it's given stellar performance in each case.
FWIW,
35W

I'll have to admit that terminal performance of the corelokts hasn't been stellar as far as weight retention, I've killed several elk with the 180gr CL in .30-06, all of the boiler room shots ended up with the elk on the ground within a few yards and the bullet found completely, for the most part, separated from the jacket against the hide on the opposite side. But how much more dead can dead be with the elk on the ground with one shot, it did it's job. I was always happy with em as my dad was and his dad before him. Course that was before we knew anything about "modern premium" bullet construction and the need ta have em. IIRC, nosler partitions were a handloader bullet only then, and none of us ever did that back then.

I bought a box of 1000 165gn 30 cal corelokts. They seem to work real well for me. I've been loading them in a 30-06 with 60gns of RL22 for about 2730fps. We got 2 Elk this year, 2 Elk last year and a Deer and Elk the year before with these loads. I can get groups under .4" with my Son's Rem 721 also.
I like em.

Shot placement is as important as the bullet selected to do the job. Corelokts have been around for along time and are the cheepest factory amo I can find in a store. So alot of people use them. Which is o.k. My buddy shot a running elk at about 100 yds with a 180 gr 300 win mag corelokt. The bullet entered the top of the back just before the hind end and came to rest just under the skin on the other side. We had to skin and quarter the animal to get it out. The only thing left of the bullet was the jacket. It did so much damage to the area it looked like it was shot with buckshot at close range on the exiting side. The meet was completly destroyed in about 14 inch circle. Well it took 4 more shots to stop it and the last in the neck to kill the animal. I had used corelokts in the past with better luck (less meet damage) so I was supprised. Also the round did not hit any bone. That same day I shot a mule deer with a bonded bullet with much better shot placement (neck) and only ruined the meet 1/2 inch around the wound channel. I know this is compairing two diffrent things but I expected better results from the corelokts.

The classic example of why neck shots are such a poor idea. Any shot near the spine often causes an animal to go down, stunned, then they get up again.

There is just too little vital area in an animals neck, a small movement by the animal or the shooter is all it takes for the animal to end up wounded.

The vast majority of huntes and shooters still use standard bullets. Premium bullets are only used by the few of us who are fanatics about all this stuff.

I hunt with ten guys and the closest we come to having a premium bullet in our camps is the Speer Nitrex rounds in 300 Weatherby that I use have "Grand slam" bullets. I buy them because they are the cheapest 300 W's you can buy. Even cheaper than Remington core-loct rounds.

I see elk killed with 130 grain 270 Core-locts every year, even though the are not premium, and they are designed for dear, and you "should" use 140's or 150's, and 270's are not "big enough".

We dont loose game because of bad equipment, we have he best equipment the world has ever seen. And, that includes remington bullets.

Core-Lockts are pretty much the standard bullet in the woods today. Unfortunately and it is a matter of fact, Remington thinned the core a few years ago as a cost cutting measure and they've never been the same. I still use them though as they are readily available anywhere. I do however, keep to the heavier bullet weights (180gr in the 06 for example) and take a bit extra care on bullet placement and animal shot angle, something by the way, I don't worry about with premiums. jorge

Doc -

I'm one of the guys that agrees with the title of your post. I didn't have time to load up my new TSXs for my new to me 25-06 prior to my deer hunt in Montana, so just used off the shelf Remingtons with 100 gr. core-lokts. The deer died, but the damage done and bullet performance were AWFUL!

Let me just say first, we were chasing a huge mule deer through the area and buck fever played a part. We jumped my deer (note to eastern hunters - don't shoot a mule deer moving unless you checked it standing) at about 50 yards and it started to walk away quartering right to left. First shot through just behind the shoulder. Deer changed direction, increased pace. Second shot (100 yards) in just behind the shoulder but a little high and the deer went down. Bent to pick up the empties, deer jumps and runs right to left again. Third shot miss, deer runs nearly straight away, fourth shot into the rear of the rib cage, angling toward the boiler room. Fifth shot through the neck, back to front. Fourth and fifth shots lasered at 170 yards.

Post mortum was terrible, as I am more of a meat hunter than out for trophies. Yes the deer was dead, yes I shot more than necessary but it went down in sight and there was no one around for miles. First and second shots damaged the lungs, destroyed off-side shoulder (bloodshot both shoulders since the two were from opposite directions). Fourth shot blew up without entry, made a 3" oval hole at the ribs, complete with bone and meat hamburger look. Fifth shot bloodshot a number of neck roasts. Note - no bullets recovered.

Conculsion - the bullets did what they were meant to do, but every other bullet I have used has done much less damage PER HIT than these. They are accurate out of the gun, but will not be used again. Also, it could be they do not hold up to the kind of velocities are loaded to. I'll stick to premiums where I don't have to worry about velocity.

Just my experience.

I've had a bunch of Core Lokts blow up on Deer. Mostly the 150s out of 30-06. I also tried the 150s in 7mm RM at around 3100 fps and every time I shot a deer (1/2 dozen +) w/ em' they blew apart on entrance. The entrance holes were usually the size of a tennis ball and penetration was very limited. Many say the NBTs blow up, all I can say is that when I shoot them w/ NBTs, the entrance is tiny and the exit is the size of a golf ball. I've never had an NBT blow up like the CLs, even when shooting them right under my tree.

I do love the performance the CLs give from my 30-30. At the 30-30 speeds they are great but, I believe anything faster is pushing the envelope.

Since they are probably the most used bullet on the market (Because they are the cheapest), you'd think Remington would make them alittle stronger.

Different strokes for different folks.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Jorge
When did they thin out the jacket? I've used Core Locts for years with good results and am wondering if I should reconsider.

Reloader, how could the ENTRANCE hole be the size of a tennis ball?? Are they blowing up before they get to the deer?

By the way, Doc, Would a Barnes Triple X have done differently than what the picture revealed?

Beemanbee,

I don't know how many deer you've taken, seen taken, or examined but, I've seen quite a few huge entrance wounds in my time. Not saying you don't have alot of experience by any means but, once you've seen enough, you'll see some pretty weird wounds on game.

I guess it's caused by the trauma from the high velocity bullet striking a bone such as a rib or shoulder point right under the surface of the skin. It is quite common on thin skinned critters such as Whitetails and even more so on varmints.

Have you ever seen a varmint shot w/ a HV round? It's pretty amazing.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

Mike; According to John Barness, it was a few years ago. He explained why, but that post is on another forum (24 Hour Campfire) and it was a while back. Perhaps you coud do a search. jorge

Jorge, did I read correctly in your first post that Rem. thinned the 'core'? Wouldn't that mean a 'thicker' jacket?

Forgive me for being clueless. Or did you mean they thinned the jacket?

Curious.

I meatn thinned the jacket. Sorry

Why I like Core Lokt Bullets

[image][/image]

and

[image][/image]

Both one shot kills

Both droped upon impact

I think people here tend to blame bullets instead of bad shooting

did you not read the thread? It was poor shooting.



BTW, nice deer, good taxidermy work.

This is just an observation on things in general, no finger pointing. It seems that a lot of hunters are seekers of speed at all costs. Using a 150 grainer in an '06 or a 130 in a .270 merely because they go faster (supposedly farther), rather than chosing a more massive bullet that can take the punishment of the more likely close-in shot. Bullets, Core-lokt or other, are designed to withstand a certain amount of KE, but we never seem to look at that factor when we're chosing a bullet. Rather than looking at just what a caliber is best at, we try and make it something that it isn't. Too, we seem to choose calibers based not on the hunting that we actually do, but rather on the hunting that we might do in some far off day.

I think a lot of us, myself definitely included, need to look closer at the hunting that we actually do and chose a rifle/caliber on that basis, rather than what the ballistic tables suggest that a caliber might do.

I don't know the shooter in this case from Adam;s off ox, but why was he shooting such a light bullet in a caliber designed around one more than half a .22LR bullet heavier? If the deer was at 19 yards and unaware of his presence, why didn't he just wait a bit for a more certain shot? Why ddin't he step over those 19 yards and make sure his deer was stone dead before leaving to go fetch his tag?

I hope I may learn from his mistakes.

Yep, thats another jacketed bullet failure alright.



I believe that Jack O'Connor correctly addressed all of the hoopla about bullet failures a long time ago. This thread is just testament that he was right on the money in his assesment.





When in doubt wait for a better shot.

Reloader, Oh, I've killed a couple of deer. And seen a couple more that others have killed. Plus a few varmints. But I've never seen a entrance wound like you describe. Then again, I've never had what I could honestly say was a bullet failure even tho I've shot a couple of tons of Core Lokts. The failures I've had, to be painfully truthful, were caused by failures of the trigger nut.