The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting NA HUNT TIPPING?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| NA HUNT TIPPING? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
OK, this question was prompted by a debate over on the African forum. On safari, the customary tip to PHs is 10% of the total daily rate for a hunt. So, a 14 day plains game hunt at $400 per day would imply a $560 tip assuming one is content with the effort put forth by the PH. Fine, I have no problem with this. Since most NA hunts are not priced this way, how does everyone here think one should appropriately calculate the tip amount here? I mean, if I go on a $10,000 bear hunt in Alaska I have a hard time believing that most would see a $1000 tip as reasonable (as per the African 10% rule). Am I wrong? Just curious, John | ||
|
one of us |
John I tip on effort.I tell any guide I have,we hunt like it's the last day of "thier" hunt, everyday. I have tipped over 10% and I have tipped under. If they show me the effort,I show appreciation. Regards Jeff Hunt as long as you can As hard as you can. You may not get tommorrow. | |||
|
| one of us |
John This should stir up a hornet's nest. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm not trying to stir anything up. I recognize that tipping is largely a matter of social convention and am curious to better understand the conventions in NA vs. Africa. Is the unwritten rule still 10% when the total hunt cost includes trophy fees? Best, John | |||
|
one of us |
I'm wondering the same thing for an upcoming sheep hunt. The "10% rule" applies to the day rates as far as I am concerned, not trophy fees. So applying this to the NA hunts is difficult as there is either no trophy fee, or it is imbedded into the hunt cost, depending on how you look at it. I think NA hunts lend themselves better to "a number" ($250, $500, $750, etc). | |||
|
one of us |
Ask your guide this question when you book your hunt. Ask him or her what their feeling are on the Tip process. I think most will give you a wide range based on past hunters. When they do this throw out a specific amount and ask them it that would be appropriate. At least then you know what to expect on the front end. One last thing on this. I have hunted with several guides and most of them have become very good friends that I talk to on a regular basis. When this topic comes up, which is not that often, the only comments I hear are about hunters who are simply ass holes during the hunt and then leave with no tip at all. I have never had any of these guys tell me about a guy who was great in camp, had a nice hunt, but left a soft tip. My point is that if you are cooperative with your guide during the hunt, help out with camp duties, and make the trip enjoyable for both parties involved...you tip amount is not going to be a big deal. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
|
one of us |
Having been on both sides of the discussion topic, IMO, figuring a tip on a daily basis is the way to go. Then simply adjust for the worth of the guide. A good round starting number for a typical western hunt of 7 to 10 days for deer or elk is $25. For hunts that require more complicated logistics/work, such as an AK grizz or sheep hunt, adjust upward. Obviously if a "guide" does nothing more than take you to stand and pick you up each day, he isn't doing a helluva lot of work. I also tip the Mexican bass fishing guides the same way but adjust somewhat by what the comparative daily pay would be in that country. A pretty standard tip for a decent guide is $10 per day, but on my last trip, I tipped $100 for four days of fishing because our guide was top notch. That's more than a month's wages for most jobs in Mexico. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
One of Us |
John, First I disagree with your premise about 10% of the hunt is the unwriiten rule... I belive that the 10% issue is BS and is used by the industry to perpetuate huge tips. In 1998 I went on my first buff hunt that was 10 days six hundred a day for $6k. I tipped the PH $300 and the camp staff $150 and they were genuinely very happy. I always tip for good service...but this seems to gotten out of hand...its like tips at meals...when I was growing up it was 10%, then it became 15%, now its 15-20%... i would think if your went on a $10k bear hunt...$300-500 would be a good tip. The PH/Guide has a job and they get paid... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mike, I am inclined to agree that the 10% shouldn't be an iron law. Maybe as the daily rate increases, a PH shouldn't expect the full 10%. I would probably go 10% on plains game hunts charging between 300-400 per day, 8 or 9% on buffalo hunts charging $700 per day, and maybe 7% or a bit less on $1000+ per day Tanzania type hunts of extended duration. Anyway, what you write above only reinforces my point that the 10% rule cannot be applied to North America. That said, and I mean NO OFFENSE to Outdoor Writer, I would have a hard time tipping a NA guide $25 per day on an elk hunt when (in terms of real purchasing power) I am tipping an African PH probably 4X as much for a hunt costing maybe only double. JMHO, John | |||
|
| one of us |
John, I said $25 was a good starting figure and the rest would depend on what the guide actually does for you during the hunt. If he takes you to a hillside in the morning and leaves you there to watch an elk crossing, he isn't worth more than $25 per day. I have been on perhaps a dozen elk hunts where I was the hunter rather than the guide, and on a 1/3 of them the "guide" was nothing more than a wet-behind-the-ears horse wrangler, which isn't too uncommon with western outfitters. In fact, on at least one of them, I opted to hunt on my own and left the guide in camp. On another 1/3 the guides were decent but not exceptional, and with the last 1/3, they were the latter. They knew elk and how find them and went the extra mile to do so. So the point is, your mileage will vary. When I was guiding elk and deer hunters in Colorado's Weminuche during the mid-1970s, we were delighted to get a $50 tip for a 5-day hunt because the outfitter wasn't paying us a heck of lot anyway. Naturally inflation has upped that a bit.  -TONYTony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
One of Us |
I tip people when I feel they have given me outstanding service...and only then. The idea of expecting me to pay someone extra simply for doing their job rubs me the wrong way. FWIW, the original intent of a tip was "to insure promptness" and not because someone was making poverty level wages. Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have been on three elk hunts to NM...all ended up with nice 6x6's. The hunts (fair chase) lasted 5 days each and the guide got $500 each time. The last time (my best hunt)my guide refused the $500 and said give me $400 and one of your handmade knives...fair enough. Price of the elk hunt was $7,500 to $8,500. | |||
|
| one of us |
Andy, I pretty much agree. On the hunt where I left my guide in camp after Day 1, I gave him a $75 tip for nothing more than saddling my horse in the morning and taking care of it when I returned in the evening. I could have done it myself but preferred sleeping in for the extra 15 mins. each day.  Oh, and he also helped me pack my elk back to camp, although I had already field dressed and quartered it. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| one of us |
Depending on the type of hunt and where, I would think that $100-$150 a day would be reasonable. That is US currency. $500 per head of game. Add anouther $250 for any life size capes. If your guide has to carry your rifle and pack for your sorry ass, add anouther 50% to that. Feel free to leave your gear behind with your guide. Guides wear out alot of gear. Stuff like Bino's and rangefinders are much appreciated, I hear. Get your guides address. Send his wife some jewelry. Send your guide some new boots in his size. Some guides will burn up 2 pair of boots in a couple of months. You can write this stuff off anyways. Find a way if you can't. Take a second mortgage out on your house, whatever. Your guide is the one that makes things pooisble. Show your appreciation for your guide. This way he will come back year after year and the better he knows the country which increases your chances of success. If you be a cheap c-nt, why should a guide put out the extra effort. Be cheap back at home and pass on the savings to your guide! Hope this helps, Daryl | |||
|
| One of Us |
Daryl, Your suggestion does help...it helps me to decide to keep on hunting by myself without a guide! I love to hunt for being outdoors and on my own...not for paying someone more than they're worth. If I don't kill, then I still have a wonderful time...the kill is not the point to me! If the hunt isn't bringing in enough $$, then raise the price. This business of tipping is out of hand IMO. One hundred dollars to $150 per day on top of the price of the hunt is ridiculous. I know there are some who will disagree with me and many who will pay it....not me! The opinions of others count little in the formulation of my own. Just in case you can't tell from the above....your suggestion is nonsense to me! I would likely make an exception to this in the case of an African hunt, but not in NA. The difference being that I am a very experienced outdoorsman in NA but know little about Africa. Caping an animal is rather easy and enjoyable...why would I want to pay someone else to do it for me? Paying someone else $500 because I am a good shot and hunter is absurd. Additionally, I can take care of my own horses if needed (including emergency situations) and I can take care of myself. I have no reason to pay anyone in NA thousands of dollars to babysit me or to carry something for me or to point out game that I can find on my own as well as they can! As a matter of fact, it might be worth more to me to pay them to stay the hell away from me while I enjoy nature than to have to put up with them on a hunt. I know there are many good guides out there and they have access to places others might have trouble reaching...but there is no reason for me to pay them...I can do anything on my own or with my friends that they can provide for me and I don't always look for the easiest way to do things. Well, I need to get down off my soapbox now. I realize everything (including service) has value. Additionally, I realize that value differs among individuals. To someone who is unfamiliar with hunting and nature, a guide would be worth far more. Same goes for someone who has extremely limited time or a lot more money than the average person. Likewise for those who's desire is to have a large mount on the wall or to have their name in a record book. Rant over. Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
one of us |
I tip according to effort. If the hunt was hard and the guide did everything possible to get me close to game then they deserve the 10% or whatever I feel is right. If they give me a halfass effort then they should expect a halfass tip.I also look at the camp. If the cook is up early and doing a great job til late at night I'll drop a $50 tip his or her way.Great service deserves a good tip and the lack of service deserves nothing. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hi Daryl, Apparently some here lack a sense of humor! Did ACRecurve actually believe you were recommending clients send jewelry to the guide's wife?!?!?  Best, John | |||
|
| One of Us |
JTG, I recognized the jewelry part as facetious...if the initial part of the post was in jest as well, then, yep, I fell for it!  Doesn't change my opinion, though. Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
| one of us |
Andy, While many of us can and do hunt successfully on our own, as you do, there are many cases where logistics and laws preclude it. Thus, a guide/outfitter often becomes a necessity rather than "luxury." The quickest examples I can think of are hunts in most of the Canadian provinces and for certain species in Alaska. And...even WY requires a guide for hunts in wilderness areas, which is ludicrous, of course. No way around it unfortunately. -TONY P.S. to Yukoner On my last guided trip, I turned over my truck's title to the guide since he did such a marvelous job. I had offered my wife but he preferred the truck because it had less miles on it! Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| one of us |
So what if you don't tip? I mean lets take an average Elk price of 5g's for a 7 day hunt. You are already giving the guy 5g's to hunt with him but now you have to tip him as well? Maybe its just me and I do not have the cash flow like most on here but guides are not making the $3.25 on hr like the wait staff is at a restaurant. If I liked the guide I would probably give him a nice knife of something along that lines but I am not going to stuff another $300+ dollars in his pocket. | |||
|
One of Us |
Aziz Hello I have restrained myself from commenting on this issue but I have to say that having been on many outfitted hunt in NA and having spoken to many outfitters about expected tips for guides, every guide that I have hunted with has been very happy with a tip varying from $ 250 to $ 500. This includes sheep, moose, goat, bear etc. I have been advised many times to give $ 50 to the camp cook, and They have been happy. A tip is a token of appreciation, something extra for their effort not a substitute for their regular wages. That is how it is in the rest of the world except Africa where we have made it part of their pay structure and an absolute expectation instead of an extra bonus and reward for a job well done. Regards Aziz  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tony, Although I didn't mention the law making a guide a necessity, I am aware of that. I got a bit carried away in my response to Yukoner. I guess the bottom line for me is that hunting is rapidly turning into an unaffordable venture for ordinary people. I make enough to hunt where I want but it hasn't always been that way. I well remember when it was hard for me to gather up $350 for my first elk hunt. It's a shame things are heading in their present direction, IMO. Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
One of Us |
As some one with a small and hopefully growing guide service, my wife and I approach it from this aspect, and mind you this is just the way we do things. We are going to do the same amount of work for each client, if they tip, they tip, if they don't, they don't. What we have found surprising is that our clients that had to work to put the funds together to do the hunt will tip all they can. Our clients that have been a little more well heeled, have been the ones that sometimes wouldn't even say Thank You. Having only hunted in the states and Canada, with no experience of Africa other than pricing hunts and trying to figure out how to get the money together, tipping on American hunts is an awkward situation. I feel that if a guide or the camp staff does a job that a person feels is worthy of a tip, then give what you feel comfortable with, or at least say THank You. In my case a 12 pack of Heineken works wonders. We are doing this because I like to hunt, and I like to see others hunt and guide them to a kill. Lora enjoys cooking and is a good cook and camp manager. We figure our prices so that we will make money, and if someone tips , that is gravy. If they say Thank You, and mean it that works also, if they re-book for the next year, that is the icing on that cake. JMO but I think way too many folks want to have "Guidelines" to go by on all facets of life. As a last thought, tipping or not tipping should be evaluated on the overall experience, not just whether the hunter was successful or not. A good guide can work their ass off, and for a myriad of reasons the hunter might not shoot anything. As was said by someone else, if I am taken out and put in a stand and kill something in the first hour of the first day, I am not going to be real generous with a tip. If someone gets my on game everyday and I have shot opportunities and for whatever reason can't connect then I am going to be a lot more generous. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Excellent post!  Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
| one of us |
Andy, I agree completely that hunting is rapidly becoming a rich man's sport, and if we're not careful, only the very well-heeled of future generations will be able to take part. It's not too very far from that now. Like you, I had to scrape up the money during my early years of hunting because I was raising three kids who were all within 4 years of each other. It wasn't until they were gone on their own where I had a bit more expendable income. Even at that, I went in hock over the last couple years with hunts to Africa and NZ (and yes, I PAID ALL of my own way, including tips!)because I figured if I didn't do it now at my age, I would never do it. So it's out of my system, but I'll be paying for it for a while. Hell, just the taxidermy for those two hunts is costing me enough to go on an AK brown bear hunt.  Crazyhorseconsulting, Bingo! -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
one of us |
John, tips to me are based on service alone, and have absolutely nothing to do with any starting figure such as overall cost of hunts or any other service/goods for that matter. How that ever got started I'll never know. This whole percentage thing is exactly what you said, and UNwritten "rule." I prefer unwritten occurance. When a guide puts forth effort beyond your expectations, it is reasonable to tip on a scale you see fit, this whole thing is completely subjective. Tips also have to be affordable to the hunter. In many cases, they tip based on cost of hunt alone and I think that is a mistake since there are those that save for years, even decades to do a hunt only ONCE and cannot afford a 10%+ tip for a $10K hunt. I hunted with a gentleman in Canada, who has been hunting there for 14 years (same outfitter). This guy happens to have several homes, 1 even in the Bahamas, so $$ is not an issue. The most he's ever tipped a guide for a baited bear hunt (little effort/work overall), is $100 for a week. The most he's tipped a spot and stalk hunt, even for a glacier black bear was $200 and that hunt was over $6K. Is he stingy? I don't know. It's all subjective. I base tips on effort and effort alone. It has nothing to do with overall cost of hunt. That, IMO, is the worst measuring stick and somehow, if used often, becomes a standard. I don't think the size of the animal has anything to do with tipping either. Many hunters I've talked with do not tip at all. Their feeling is that paying huge sums of money to kill an animal, is a "tip included." I do not agree with it myself but many guides proclaim this is more common than you'd think and some don't bat an eye about it. It's just the way it is. My first experience ever with a guide was, you might have guessed, a bear hunt. The 2 other guys in camp were there also on their first outfitter hunt. They (father and son) knew nothing, and had heard nothing about tipping until I mentioned it the day before our hunt was over. "You mean we're supposed to tip??" "I had no idea, how much are you tipping??" I told them that tips are based on effort and affordability to where both parties (are hopefully) happy. They tipped $100 for the week for the both of them. They've also been back to that place every Sept. since. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
| one of us |
How do things change if the owner is your actual guide as opposed to someone he's hired? Seems to me there shouldn't be any need to tip the owner since he sets the prices up front, plus gets a cut of all of the hunts. The hired guide doesn't have as much bargain power. It's kind of ironic, in that if you book a hunt with "John Bearkiller Guide Services" and go with Mr. Bearkiller himself, your total hunt may end up costing a bit less then if you go with one of his (presumably less-experienced) assistants. Washougal Chris | |||
|
| one of us |
This is the situation I encountered in Maine. The guides WERE the outfitter/owners. I tipped them $100 each for a 4 day hunt. One came to get me at the airport, the other was my actual "guide," although both were partners and I'm sure everything is split down the middle. In Alberta, the same also. The outfitter was also the guide. When I go to Sask. this fall, I'll encounter the same once again. However, in NB, my guide was a hired person for the outfitter. He still got a cash tip and an invitation to hunt whitetails in Ohio, which he did come. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
| one of us |
I’m always asked about tips, so here goes……….! Like anywhere in the service industries, you can get poor or mediocre service, and sometimes you receive such great service and attention that you’re astounded! Guiding and outfitting is no different, …………there’s always stories about lazy, indifferent guides that have no interest in the client, let alone hunting, and they should have stayed in bed! ………………But, there’s also the guide that tries to look after your every concern, comfort, and well-being, and will do everything in his power to get you on that one great trophy of a lifetime! Should he be rewarded for his efforts? …….Yes, if he’s gone out of his way to assure you had a great trip and become your buddy! How much? …………Well, most of our hunters, from talking with them, feel somewhere between $200 and $500, for an outstanding job. And then there’s $50 for the cook if he/she has performed admirably, and maybe $25 for the camp boy/caper that has looked after your water, stove, lantern, skinning, etc. ……But only if they’ve done a great job! ~Arctic~ A stranger is a friend we haven't met | |||
|
| one of us |
Hi John, You responded too soon. I was hoping to stir up shit with this one. All in fun of coarse. My wife laughed her head off when I showed her what I wrote. People are pretty sensitive when it comes to money. Talk to you soon, Daryl | |||
|
| one of us |
Well said. I know of some guides who train and work out all summer even though they are in top shape already so that they can be on top of thier game come hunting season. Then they leave thier good paying job and familys to go and kick some ass and produce some fine trophies. That is thier intent, the hunt and the the big sheep. The tip is not thier goal but it is sure apreciated. I also know guides that don't know shit from fat meat. They are hired because the Outfitter needed some bodies. It is unfortunate but it happens. Tip accordingly, Daryl | |||
|
| one of us |
Unfortunately, this is the way things are heading. There are some hunts I would like to do but I just can't afford them. In many cases Outfitters and Outfitting has changed. There are many reasons why the prices have gone up. It isn't all because the price of business has gone up. I will reserve my comments on this. I don't want to open up anouther can of worms. Sorry for high jacking, Daryl | |||
|
| one of us |
That is just too funny, I will have to borrow that one to use in camp, thanks, Daryl | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia