Before the Vampire Critics show up:

I am going to be taking a handicapped person in a wheel chair out Elk hunting. This person has also suffered a broken shoulder so can't do the recoil of a magnum. She can shoot a 6mm Rem/ 243 just fine.

Although I do have a fair supply of 100 grain Nosler partitions, I was really looking close to the Speer 105 grain SP. I really like this bullet.

I hear about Montana natives that take Elk with 6mm and 25 caliber 100 grain bullets each season.
I sure would appreciate any feed back anyone would have, if they have used the 105 grain Speer with success on an Elk.

Being handicapped this lady has a tag for Cow or bull. However, we all know the luck of the draw.
Anyone who has a cow tag, always has the biggest bull in the woods waltz right by them every time!

Thanks in advance Guys.

seafire,

You are to be commended for taking a handicapped person elk hunting which is a lot of work even when everyone is fit. I admire her spunk and it's too bad about her broken shoulder, but somewhere in spite of these "human" problems you have to ask what is ethical for the elk.

I'm betting the "Montana natives" have one thing going for them that your lady doesn't and that is "time in the field" to where they are sharpened up to a razor's edge plus they have time on their hands so they can operate within the definite limitations of that rifle by getting closer or just passing and going out again.

If 6mm is "it" then I'd recommend she shoot a calf and leave mature cows and bulls to mature cartridges. I assume you will be there to go try to track the thing down -- if you do will there be someone else there to take care of her or will you have to "stay close" and just let it go?

Other non-magnums include 270 and 30-06 and have a much better chance of performing properly, especially given the small-bore/lite-bore shooters favorite come back of "just get closer" is not likely available to her due to her handicap.

.... Maybe next year when she has recovered from her injuries. If you just "gotta do it" then I'd recommend Barnes X so at least it will penetrate. No happy answers on this one.

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

[ 09-22-2003, 10:05: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

EKM;

Thanks for the input. One thing that we have in our corner is that this lady did a lot of shooting before her handicapping injury. In fact her caliber of choice was a 300 Weatherby.

She can out shoot most guys I have ever seen.
And that is still to this day also.

Shot placement and knowing Elk anatomy is not a problem at all. We just need to make sure the bullet is up to the task. More my concern than her's. If it is wounded, I am the one who will track it. And prep it to get out of the field, and to the butchers.

Have you tried her out on one of your 6.5mm s ?

That would be a much better choice that the 6 in my view , if she could take slightly more recoil........

Even a .308 would be a better choice if she can stand the bit of additional recoil. I had the .243 fail on deer twice ( both shots were perfect broadside shots at less that 100 yards ) which is why I stopped using it. The .243 is a great cartridge and I know everyone here is highly opinionated on this subject. I also know that thousands of elk have fallen to the 6MM/.243 class cartriges. I am not trying to be crass, but how close can you get to an elk in a wheelchair? If she can shoot the .243 with a 105 grain bullet, wouldn't she be better equipped with a .308 using 150 or 165 grain Nosler Partitions? Either way I wish her luck and hope she scores big!
Just my 2 cents worth.

Seafire,
I have loaded this bullet in both of it's forms, spitzer and roundnose, in both 243 and 6MM over the years. I and my wife have taken probably 10 deer with the 243 and seen the results of one taken with the 6MM. In no case did we recover the bullets or find bits of them in the animals. The 243 is an 18" barreled Model 7 and the resulting MV is 2800 fps, the 6MM is a 20" Remington with a MV of 2900 fps. I kept the load light on the 6MM as she was a first time hunter, used the round nose because the shots were going to be within 75 yards. The little doe, 80 lbs, taken with the 6MM was shot at 25 yards and while the bullet completely penetrated it left a big wound, don't think it could have made it through an elk sized animal.
The spitzers would be the way to go if you decide to use this bullet, judging from their performance on these small Southern deer(160 lbs). I haven't tried the Nosler Partitions as these bullets are adequate for these uses but if you're stuck with this caliber I'd take a look at their velocity and accuracy out of your gun, you'll need a the penetration you can get.
Good Luck,
Lewis

This is really a touchy topic. My suggestion is that bullets aside you convince the hunter that you must also put a shot into the elk if it does not drop. This way there will be a big bullet in the animal and complete penetration which I would think you know is a very good thing.

Can the hunter shoot from a rest attached to the chair? This may allow a heavier rifle. One of those old M 70's in 270 Win might be ideal.

In any case a tough premium bullet makes a lot of sense.

Good luck.

Let me preface the response by saying I have never killed an elk but have taken lots of Texas WhiteTails with a 243 and larger. If it were me I'd be looking at head shots given this circumstance ..."excellent shot, limited recoil tolerance etc ". Some years ago I suffered a upper spinal cord injury to a disc that has the nerve cord that controls all motion of my right arm (& I am very very right handed)running adjacent and was warned about shooting anything at all for several years and risking possible permanent impairment. After I recoevered to a "normal" functioal level I started shooting again & used a 257 Rbts very successfully at first. But on "eating animals" under 200 yards I take head shots whenever I can. I know the differneces between elk and WT's are enormous sizewise but I've had too many bullet failures on WT's and hogs using any of the 6mils during my reloading days and shooting 3-4000 rounds of centerfire rifle a year and would opt for anything with a bigger heavier bullet ...even a downloaded 30 cal over a 6mil bullet on an elk or anything else I did not want to have to track and needed to nail to a spot....and still take a head shot if possible. If it ain't going on the wall it does not need to be pretty is what my grandaddy used to say.
I also commend your efforts with the diasabled lady and hope that I would be as caring. Good Hunting!
Ron

Seafire-I hope you and the lady have a super hunt-I'd be glad to help out if we were in the same part of the world.

About the bullet-personally I feel it will do just fine-I'd want to punch it in behind the should and would make sure I used good patience and discipline to do so. If she does that then she will be dining on elk steaks but not b4 you do some packing..........grins. You said you had the Nozlers-I'd tend to opt that way-just a bit of insurance-probably not needed but.

Personally I'd use a different bullet but you did not ask that. So Powder River let er rip!

One last note-can she use the off hand to shoot. Back in my ball playing days I tore up my right shoulder on the court pretty bad-had to shoot lefty or not go. I had zero trouble learning to shoot from the off hand-to date I've found most able to change over quite easily--just a thought.

Have a super day and a great hunt--keep us informed how it goes.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

She'll do just fine with the .243 . Haven't used the 105 gr. bullet but have used the 100gr. Nosler Partion on a moose at 450 yds. Took the bottom of the heart out and the bullet was stuck in the hide on the far side with most of the lead core gone, wieghed 85gr. Have seen 30-30 do this at 30 yds. so don't discount the .243's potential. I wouldn't hesitate to try the 105gr. bullet but like the way Noslers perform. Had a friend who had any caliber rifle he wanted at his disposal to hunt with. His main hunting rifle was a .243 Win. 88. Everyone kidded him about hunting with a pipsqueek 22, but guess who come home with the meat every time. If you had posted that this lady was going to use a .500 loudenboomer you would be getting all kinds of post on how she should be using a .243 so this brings you back to full circle and obviously it will do the job. Good luck on the hunt.

Best of luck to your friend on the hunt. I would feel a whole lot more confident if I was loaded up with the Partitions. I have had good kills on deer with the 105 Speer but elk is a different story.

I personally would feel more comfortable with partitions.

Like Mark said, put it behind the shoulder in the lungs and you'll have a dead elk. I'd opt for the 100 gr. Partition as its construction is worth a lot more than the extra five grains of the Speer... just a thought. Have a GREAT hunt and give my best to your hunter!

BA

Brad's right, Go to the 100 gr. partition.

As you already know its a light load for the task, but with that said the most important consideration is going to be bullet placement. If you can get the speer to shoot best then go with it. It is also very important for her to practice and a back up shooter would be prudent for sure. Best of luck and as Bakes says, Good on ya mate!

Thanks everyone. I do have a batch of 100 grain partitions. I was lucky enough a few years ago to be able to buy about a 1,000 of them for $10.00 when someone passed away.

The rifle this person will use is a Ruger 77 ( the older one) in 6mm Remington. She indicated it is the most accurate rifle she has ever owned.

As pride goes, she does not want someone standing over her for a back up shot. If any hunter I know was going to use a 6mm on Elk, it would be her.

Mark D. appreciate your input. I hear enough of guys using 25/06s on Elk with 100 grain bullets and really don't see a difference in that and a 100 grain bullet in a 6mm Remington.
I handload my 6mm Rem to 3250 with a 100 grain bullet. ( Rl 19 or H 414 does the trick).

Thanks for everyone's input, and thanks for all of your wishes of success. I know she will appreciate that.