Frank,

I'd be absolutely astonished if a more than adequate rifle is not already in your collection!

The .22 centerfires have been allowed in Oregon for quite some time for Deer and Antelope and I've not heard of any real problems. It isn't as though every hunter is suddenly going to go out and use one for antelope hunting if they have something else available. As long as a varmint bullet isn't used, I don't see any problem with it.
I've seen deer taken with a .223 and 64 Grain Power Points and the results were quite convincing.

43Deer,

We will see what Colorado does...... Note that this would be for antelope only. The enforcement issue of bullets already exists with the .243, and many others that also shoot varmint bullets (many factory manufactured). Alot of shooters use match bullets (I won't argue the effectiveness of this bullet one way or the other) whidch are LEGAL. Are you trying to tell me that a Partition, "X", or TBBC will not penetrate the shoulders of an Antelope, do you speak from experience or is this a theory?

Deke.

I'm not saying that partitions or X bullets wouldn't work. I'm just saying that it would be tough to enforce, and that many people would use poor bullets. I would seriously question why anyone would want to use a 223 on antelope though. I would bet that there would be more cripples running around though if they allow .22 cal's for antelope.

43Deer,

The enforcement of good bullets is something to consider, but the same could happen w/any cartridge up to .30 caliber since frangible varmint bullets are made for these accordingly (especially the .243Win which is an excellent Antelope rifle). I doubt a .243Win V-Max load (which BTW looks much like an SST) is going to be any more effective than a .22-250 varmint load on big game, but if you read the Colorado regs, the .243 V-Max load is legal (regs specify an expanding bullet 70gr or more). I am proposing the .22-250Rem and .220Swift since they have more energy than the other .224's and I doubt an incompentant hunter would have even heard of a .22-250Rem or .220Swift, much less consider buying/using one. In Colorado the centerfire requirements are 1000ft#'s @ 100yrds for .243 and larger. I believe a reasonable argument can be made that you need more energy with the .224 caliber since it loses velocity inside and out of the target much faster than the larger bullets of similar design, and the .22-250 gives approx 1200ft#'s or more @ 100yrds w/60gr Partitions (probably more energy w/53gr "X's"). I believe on average, the folks that use the .22-250Rem or .220Swift are going to be better than average rifleman(women) wanting a flat/fast/accurate rifle and/or knowledgeable hunters guiding their kids on Antelope hunts. Many of these kids will start hunting earlier and will be more accurate with the .22-250Rem or .220Swift which in the end will result in more youth hunters and better marksmanship and more humane kills since the animal was hit where it counts. This will maintain if not grow our crop of hunters. Which is more deadly, a .224 bullet through the boiler room or a cartridge that kicks harder out of the boiler room?

Deke.

Well said, and I pretty much agree with everything you said, but there are quite a few idiots out there who have swifts and 22-250's, and I fear that they would use improper bullets, resulting in cripples. I agree that a 243 with a V-max could be just as bad. I just fear that joe blow would go out and buy some Wal-Mart 220 swift coyote loads and think they will work for antelope without having a clue (or caring) what kind of bullet is loaded in those shells...

43Deer,

I hear you. I share the same concern. I just don't think Joe Blow is going to pick a Swift or 22-250, he is most likely going to pick up a 30-06 (no one take this as a slam because I think the 06 is 2nd to none in north america). When folks talk about gun control, I argue, "which saves more lives, having guns, or not having guns." I think we should look at this the same way. What will help our sport more, allowing 22-250's & Swifts for Antelope (younger and perhaps more hunters, better marksmanship hopefully leading to cleaner kills), or not allowing (Joe Blow probably gut shoots the Antelope with another cartridge anyway, most likely he just scares them). To be honest I don't know the answer, but I believe we should look at it this way, and recognize our biases for what they are.

Deke.

Blaser K95 270 win with Zeiss V series 3-9x42

Greetings Frank Beller
Where are you ? Did you pick one yet ?
If money was no object as you said, then it would be a rifle that no one has mentioned. You would get looks from everyone around you. Most would come over to see it and ask to hold it. You would have to practice, practice, and more practice to shoot it. It would be a kick in the pants to show off to your friend and would be an heirloom to pass down to your children. You would be thinking outside the box from the Remchester crowd. It would be one of the most memorable hunts you would ever have. It would probably not depreciate in value. Turn on your seekers to your computer and click on the link

http://www.shilohrifle.com/

30-30 Man

Deke: I would be happy to ask them for you. And of course I would be happy to assist you with my experiences and observations also.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

PS.
It has been done many times. A great read on a hunting trip from these fine rifles as well

http://www.iastate.edu/~codi/Hunting/Antelope.htm


God I love it out here in the West!

30-30 Man

43deer: I beg to differ with you regarding needing to be an expert shot and killing Deer and Antelope with 22 centerfires! It can easily and reliably be done!
Indeed many of the kills I have made and seen made the Antelope/Deer were killed instantly and fell in their tracks! In particular now toward your allegation - I have seen many one shot kills by non-experts (and I am considering my 12, 13, 14 and now 15 year old girl neighbors as non-experts - along with their mom!) using Remington 55 gr. factory Spitzers on large Buck Whitetails, Doe Whitetails and Antelope! I was not on the mountain when my young lady friend at age 12 years and 3 days became the youngest person ever to kill a Mt. Goat in Montana! And like I say that was a one shot kill with the 223! No these folks are not experts but are calm enough to wait for and place one good shot! Results = lots of quickly dead game animals and very little ruined meat. Bullet speed and shot placement are two VERY important elements of lethality when game shooting! The 223 can do this very effectively!
Montana has had the policy (game law) of allowing not only 22 centerfires but lesser powered ammunition on game animals for 38 years that I know of. And there is not a detectable (to me and my friends anyway) problem with lost game!
Do not let me give you the impression that there are not slob Hunters in the game fields - I know there are! I have seen them and dealt with them for decades in all the western states. Anyone wanting to harvest big game should be mentally mature enough and aware of their capapbilities enough to take only shots at game they are confident will kill the game! We all know there is a small percentage of people that shoot at impossible distances and shoot at running game going through brush and on and on! I do not think it prudent to deny hunters the option of using 22 centerfires on Deer/Antelope sized game. They are if used "responsibly" amazingly quick and clean killers of game!
You are absolutely right there will probably be a slob out there with a Mini-14 in 223 and a banana clip full of FMJ cartridges wounding game. That person should be ashamed and kept from Hunting by any means possible, of course.
I encourage you though to broaden your horizon some day and come Hunting in Montana and watch a few Whitetails get harvested with the 223! I think you will be impressed!
By the way I do not know if I mentioned my young lady friend killed her first Mule Deer this past November with her 223 and one shot! Ooh and I may have also forgot to mention that huge ranch fed Mulie carried antlers I personally measured at 31" wide! One shot 223 believe it or not, show disdain for it or not it, is easily done!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I would take my Remington 700 in 257 Roberts. 100 grn Barnes X bulley at 3100 fps. I have found nothing better for deer and antelope.

varmintguy -



from another montanan's point of view, i gotta agree with everything you said!



my own personal preferences would require me to use the .264/6.5mm caliber as a minimum, but i would not feel undergunned with a .223 at all.

From my party's hunt last year a Rem 700 in 30-06 with 165 Partitions (246yds), a Steyr Forester in 7mm-08 with 139 SSTs(302 yds) and a Browning A-Bolt in .270 with factory ammo Failsafes. (146yds) 3 lopes, 3 shots.