LIGHT or HEAVY for caliber...

As a novice DEER HUNTER shooting 6.5x55mm, 270W, 7RM, and 30-06 I would like to learn the pros and cons of using LIGHT for caliber or HEAVY for caliber bullets and get your opinions at ranges to max 350-400yds...

Again, this is on deer...spot and stalk...

Could you please share your experiences as I would definitely like to LEARN/UNDERSTAND your perspectives by taking me to school on the issues so I can make educated decisions based on my particular situations and objectives in the field...

Thanks!

I like heavy for caliber, based the range you require. Wind can affect much at longer ranges.
One can most always determine vertical trajectory given temperature, mirage and altitude with a known velocity. In horizontal trajectory, one is subject to wind, both a vertical and horizontal factor, and unknowns during the flight of the bullet.
Heavy for caliber bullets minimise the wind factor somewhat.
Just my opinion.

The typical thing would be to pick something in between. Where it gets interesting is when there are more than one of those...for instance..165 or 180 gr in 30-06 (180 works for me).

Btw since there's a 220 gr in 30-06, I consider the 180 gr a medium weight. It's also the best known and used '06 bullet.

Where are hunting? Are there deer to hunt in Hawaii?

On eastern whitetails, I have had faster kills with light for caliber, mostly with 130's in the 270. Lately I have been using heavier bullets in bigger bores, like 180's in 30-06, 225's in 338 mag, 250's in 35 Whelen, and 400's in 458 mag. All of those have resulted in deer running away bleeding. I never needed to track any with the 270.

Thanks for sharing your experiences I appreciate it...

bja105- Yes, we have Axis deer and Blacktail deer in Hawaii that have been introduced many many years ago!

We also have wild boar [hogs/pigs], Mouflon sheep, Ibex goats, Corsican sheep-hybrids, etc.

Upland birds and turkey too!

Its good fun hunting for sure....

Aloha!

Ro

Well, my reply is probably not going to help you much. I have gone full circle in the last 40 plus years of hunting.

I started hunting deer with a .244 Remington that had a 1 in 12 twist. It would not stabilize heavy bullets. I hunted deer with 85 and 90 gain bullets and never had any complaints.

Then, as I got older and built a battery of rifles I migrated to heavy for caliber cup type bullets. I shot lots of stuff with 250 grain Sierra's in my .338 and 180 grain Speer's in my 300 mags.

Eventually, I wound up using middle of the road to heavy bullets, usually Nosler Partitions.

However, with the lead ban in California I started experimenting with Barnes TSX bullets and have followed their advice and have gone to lighter (for caliber) bullets.

Using the Barnes monolithic bullets we have had great succes with the 80 grain versions in .243 and .257 caliber, the 110 grain in .277, the 120 grain in .284, etc.

So, I guess I would suggest moderate to heavy bullet weights using conventional bullets, but would not hesitate to shoot lighter weight bullets when using monolithic versions.

I tend to the heavy for caliber - 150s in 270, 180s in .30 and 286s in 9,3.

Heavy for calibre.

Speed doesn't kill, but it does impress the non-shooters around the water cooler at work.

Conventional wisdom on deer is that a lighter bullet will open faster and cause more internal damage than a heavier bullet.

Lighter bullets (Barnes & momometals excepted) tend to be less likely to exit than heavier ones. Notice I said "less likely" rather than "not likely." I've had plenty of 130 gr. .270 exits with B-tips. I've also had two 140 gr. Accubonds not exit when I guessed they would have.

As for range - anything inside of 400 yards isn't going to be a big deal with regard to trajectory; I just sight in for the top of my "rainbow" to be 3" above line of sight (.270 win), which puts me about 3" low at 300 and 14" low at 400.

For myself, then, inside of 400 yards (personally I don't think I'd be able to make a shot beyond 400 in the field/on game), on deer, I'd go with lighter.

Haven't really given much thought to wind; perhaps I should...

friar

Your 6.5x55 is a wonderful caliber. I had two military surplus rifles at one time. I liked using 160gr round nose soft points. They would shoot through all deer and pigs I pointed them at at ranges out to 400yds. 140s are the most common available loaded ammo though and I suspect it is because of the velocity bug. If you can find some of the old Norma 160s they are super!

Andy

Thank you folks...I appreciate the help and the perspectives you've all shared...

Given that deer are thin-skinned I have chosen to use a lighter bullet that will open faster and cause more internal damage. I'll be using cup and core bullets, like 120gr Rem CL's in my 6.5x55 Swede and 130gr Win. PP's in my 270W as I feel it should dump its energy INTO the animal. As usual I do have to pick my shots as shot placement is everything...

I'll start working up some loads and see what this combo can do next deer season in the field and determine if it suits my style of hunting...Quick kills and minimal tracking if any...

When meat-hunting I'll stay off-the-shoulder, but when trophy hunting my intent is to drive it high through the shoulders and anchor my bucks...

Thanks to all for sharing your insight...

After the season I can then determine my mind-set based on my performance and make my adjustments from there...

I think you chose wisely. In your case, which is similar to mine as far as pure deer hunting, I choose mid-weight bullets. In the 6.5s I use 120-129, in the 30-06 it is 165s. If I had the others, I would do the same ASSUMING accuracy was there, which is my primary concern.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I think you chose wisely. In your case, which is similar to mine as far as pure deer hunting, I choose mid-weight bullets. In the 6.5s I use 120-129, in the 30-06 it is 165s. If I had the others, I would do the same ASSUMING accuracy was there, which is my primary concern.

Thanks Larry I appreciate your comments
Yes, accuracy FIRST!!!

quote:

Given that deer are thin-skinned I have chosen to use a lighter bullet that will open faster and cause more internal damage. I'll be using cup and core bullets, like 120gr Rem CL's in my 6.5x55 Swede and 130gr Win. PP's in my 270W as I feel it should dump its energy INTO the animal.

Those will do fine. More deer are lost every year due to lack of bullet expansion than due to excessive bullet expansion. When hunting the smaller species of big game, accuracy trumps bullet weight and penetration every time.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Given that deer are thin-skinned I have chosen to use a lighter bullet that will open faster and cause more internal damage. I'll be using cup and core bullets, like 120gr Rem CL's in my 6.5x55 Swede and 130gr Win. PP's in my 270W as I feel it should dump its energy INTO the animal.

Those will do fine. More deer are lost every year due to lack of bullet expansion than due to excessive bullet expansion. When hunting the smaller species of big game, accuracy trumps bullet weight and penetration every time.

Thanks Steve I appreciate your comments...Happy Holidays Buddy...

Heavy for caliber +1

quote:

More deer are lost every year due to lack of bullet expansion than due to excessive bullet expansion.

I respectfully disagreee with that statement.

quote:

Given that deer are thin-skinned I have chosen to use a lighter bullet that will open faster and cause more internal damage. I'll be using cup and core bullets, like 120gr Rem CL's in my 6.5x55 Swede and 130gr Win. PP's in my 270W as I feel it should dump its energy INTO the animal. As usual I do have to pick my shots as shot placement is everything...

There is nothing wrong with that statement, and it should serve you well.

There are lot's of ways to kill the animals you have listed, and you have chosen a middle of the road, common sense approach.

I have played around with 110-160gr in my 270's and 180-275gr bullets out of my 338-06's.
From Nosler BT's to Barnes TSX's and most everything in between.

Without exception, shot placement has played a much more important role than bullet selection.
But it is fun to tinker, experiment and learn.

I think bullet construction will impact what you observe in the field more than bullet weight.

To answer your original question, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Stick with middle of the road, tried and true bullet weights for the calibers you are shooting, that is, unless you want to play around.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:

quote:

More deer are lost every year due to lack of bullet expansion than due to excessive bullet expansion.

I respectfully disagreee with that statement.

quote:

Given that deer are thin-skinned I have chosen to use a lighter bullet that will open faster and cause more internal damage. I'll be using cup and core bullets, like 120gr Rem CL's in my 6.5x55 Swede and 130gr Win. PP's in my 270W as I feel it should dump its energy INTO the animal. As usual I do have to pick my shots as shot placement is everything...

There is nothing wrong with that statement, and it should serve you well.

There are lot's of ways to kill the animals you have listed, and you have chosen a middle of the road, common sense approach.

I have played around with 110-160gr in my 270's and 180-275gr bullets out of my 338-06's.
From Nosler BT's to Barnes TSX's and most everything in between.

Without exception, shot placement has played a much more important role than bullet selection.
But it is fun to tinker, experiment and learn.

I think bullet construction will impact what you observe in the field more than bullet weight.

To answer your original question, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Stick with middle of the road, tried and true bullet weights for the calibers you are shooting, that is, unless you want to play around.

SDhunter,

MIDDLE-OF-THE-ROAD....

Thanks!

With the calibers you have listed, most of the standard bullet weights will work well. Most meat and pelt hunter like lower velocity bullets to preserve meat and/or pelt. Varmint hunters like lighter bullets for violent expansion and DRT kills. There is no argument that both work on deer size game.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
With the calibers you have listed, most of the standard bullet weights will work well. Most meat and pelt hunter like lower velocity bullets to preserve meat and/or pelt. Varmint hunters like lighter bullets for violent expansion and DRT kills. There is no argument that both work on deer size game.

John

Thanks John for sharing that....I understand what you're saying!!!

I know I'm being overly simple, but why not just shoot what you are the most capable with. As stated in alot of my posts I do most of my hunting with a pair of 300 Roys. No real rhyme or reason, just I'm comfortable with them. If I were comfortable with a 375 or a 270 as much as I am with my 300s then I would use it instead.

For everything other than heavy, dangerous game, I am another who favors middle weight range bullets for a given caliber. 110s in .25-06, 130s in .270, 165s or 180s in .30 caliber and 225s in .338.

Now, when you get to heavy stuff, give me those 400 grain bullets in my .416!

quote:

Now, when you get to heavy stuff, give me those 400 grain bullets in my .416!

I agree, or heavy for caliber premium bullets.
With SD > 0.3 and shot placement to break them down.

I like light for caliber bullets; except at long ranges. In thirty caliber I like 110 gr. for Texas whitetail; 125 for New Mexico mule deer, 150 for kudu and oryx, 165 for elk, and 180 for moose. I would generally not take a shot over 300 yards. I'm a better hunter than that. I can stalk within 300 yards of anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol Bull:
Heavy for caliber +1

make that +2.....I use a .300 WSM with 180 gr. bullets on Whitetail. I love getting an exit wound everytime.

My 2 cents. For blacktail I use 150 TSX in the -06 but load them down to 2750fps. I prefer bullets on the heavy side or a bit slower than max because they allow more fudge factor on less than ideal shots and spoil less meat on less than ideal hits. Blacktail are easy to kill but I've seen one take 4 hits to the heart lung area from a 243 with 80 grain bullets and keep on running. On the other hand I've seen them go down from very marginal hits from a 30-30 and you could eat right up to the hole.
Good luck on your hunt. Aloha and Merry Christmas!

Regarding the in-between way of choosing, if you look at the whole spectrum of calibers available for typical N.A. hunting, it goes roughly from .22 to .45 in whatever variation. What's about half way in between? I think it's .30. And in all the .30s what's about half way in between? I think the 30.06. And in the '06 what's half way? Either the old traditional 180 or the 165 which has become the newer choice for many.

If I then look at it another way and ask of about 20 of the most active deer hunters I know in the Mid-South, what do most use? All, not just some, use 30-06 in either 180 or 165. Over half use the 180.

That's been a consistent choice in my experience since the late '60s. The main departure was more use of 30-30s in the earlier years and the 170 grain is what I remember seeing in those (I still have my Model 94 in 30-30 but just never get around to taking it along any more).

Anyway, Late-Bloomer's question asked about light or heavy for deer, and that's my perspective on it and fwiw also my recommendation.

Hey all...Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it...

I realize everyone has their own personal beliefs/experiences, I hope as I shoot these smaller calibers in the next few seasons on deer/goats/rams/pigs I'll have a much better understanding on what works for me and what doesn't...

HIGH and TIGHT on the shoulders for trophies...
High heart/lung shot for meat hunts...

I hope all goes well...

25-06.......Sierra 100gr SBT
6.5x55mm....Rem CL 120gr. PSP
.270W.......Win.130gr PP
7RM.........Hornady 139gr SP
30-06.......Win.150gr PP

Merry Christmas to all....

Everyone has been so HELPFUL!!!

Thanks to all...

Well my designated deer rifles are a 270, a 7x57 and a 308. In my 270 this year I used the 130 gr. Nosler solid base bullet for the first time and it turns out to be a pretty tough bullet. In my 308 I used the 150 gr. Speer hotcor which is a pretty soft bullet, actually too soft for the 30 yard shot I used it on theis year. My 7x57 is loaded with the perfect deer bullet in 7MM a 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2700 fps. I tend to shoot bullets that are accurate and designed for quick but controlled expansion. My long range rifle is a 7MM Remington magnum pushing 160 gr. Nosler Partitions. Deer seem to fall quickly from it as well.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
Well my designated deer rifles are a 270, a 7x57 and a 308. In my 270 this year I used the 130 gr. Nosler solid base bullet for the first time and it turns out to be a pretty tough bullet. In my 308 I used the 150 gr. Speer hotcor which is a pretty soft bullet, actually too soft for the 30 yard shot I used it on theis year. My 7x57 is loaded with the perfect deer bullet in 7MM a 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2700 fps. I tend to shoot bullets that are accurate and designed for quick but controlled expansion. My long range rifle is a 7MM Remington magnum pushing 160 gr. Nosler Partitions. Deer seem to fall quickly from it as well.

Hey Rick,

Thank you for sharing your experiences...I appreciate it!

May I ask what happened to the bullet on the 30-yard shot, in regards to the Speer Hot-Cor being TOO SOFT up-close???

I'm curious...

Thanks!

Roland

For spot and stalk, I can't imagine a better deer rifle than my BLR (short barrel,lever action, great handling) in 358. It is an absolute deer killing machine.

I used the 150 gr. Speer Hotcor on top of a full load of AA2520 out of a 22 inch barrel. I figure I am getting more than 2800 fps. The deer, a doe jumped up to my right and I shot at her running. At the top of her third jump my bullet hit her broadside thru the spine behind the rib cage. The resulting damage seperated the spine and backstraps to the point she was broken in half at the back. The exit hole was 4 inches across. The doe weighed around 100 pounds. When I lived in Wyoming this was my favorite bullet, it performs really well at ranges past 100 yards from top loads in a 30-06 or a 308.