I didn't know where else to post this!

This is one I am proud of! My 4 sons were never given toy guns, guns are not toys. I have always kept a loaded gun in the house and never worried about my children. They know and knew that guns were never to be messed with or toyed with!
There are still far more children killed by automobiles than firearms! And the majority of child related, firearm deaths are tied to drugs and crime!



Wyoming leads nation in firearms in the home
Associated Press

ATLANTA - About 1.7 million U.S. children live in homes that have loaded and unlocked guns, according to what is described as the first comprehensive survey of gun storage in homes across the country.

The study, published Tuesday in the journal Pediatrics, found that 2.5 percent of children live in homes with loaded and unsecured firearms. Estimates from the early 1990s had put the percentage at 10 percent. The new results suggest a decline, but that doesn't mean there's cause for celebration, said Catherine Okoro, a study author.

"That's still too many children to be put at risk," said Okoro, an epidemiologist with the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


The study is based on a 2002 telephone survey of about 241,000 adults and is the first to provide data on gun storage in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, its authors said.

Nationally, 33 percent of adults said they kept firearms in or around their home. The highest percentage was in Wyoming, where 63 percent said they had firearms. The lowest percentage was reported in the District of Columbia, where 5 percent reported having guns at home. The district has long-standing bans on handguns and semiautomatic weapons.

A little more than 4 percent of the respondents nationally said they keep guns loaded and unlocked, and 2.5 percent reported having loaded, unlocked firearms in homes where children lived.

Alabama had the highest proportion - 7.3 percent - of homes in which children lived and guns were kept loaded and unlocked. The next highest states were Alaska (6.6 percent), Arkansas (6.6 percent), Montana (6.4 percent) and Idaho (5.2 percent). At bottom was Massachusetts, with 0.3 percent.

Researchers said they aren't certain why some states reported higher rates than others, but they believe people living in rural communities are most likely to have loaded guns in or around the house.

That wouldn't explain why Alabama is No. 1, however, said Jim McVay of the Alabama Department of Public Health.

"We have a hunting tradition in the Deep South, but there's no excuse for having loaded guns in the house," said McVay, director of the department's Bureau of Health Promotion & Chronic Disease.

Okoro said she hoped the survey results will be used by state public health officials as they work on intervention programs to prevent firearm deaths.

About 1,400 children are killed by firearms each year, according to CDC estimates. It's not known how many of those are killed by guns left around the house, the researchers said.

But they said a study published in a February issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association showed safe gun storage may prevent deaths. The Seattle-based study found that in homes with guns, there were fewer incidents of shootings when guns were kept locked, unloaded and separated from ammunition.

Gotta say I am proud of that statistic too.

In my home when I was growing up (in the '50s) Dad had 3 rules.

1) Never take down a gun unless you intend to use it.
2) Never point it at anything you didn't intend to kill.
3) Never kill anything you didn't intend to eat. Course there were exceptions to that one, like coyotes

If you take a snapshot, 99% of my guns are locked up in a firesafe with 99% of those unloaded. But the 1% is always under my supervision (excepting while I sleep, but nearby).

How the hell are you going to protect your family in the night if you have to figure out a safe combination in the middle of the night when stuff's going down?

I have a systematic process to clear my house in the night, which includes high intensity flashlights if I see movement or hear contiguous noise, so 1) I can identify the point of concern with a push of a button, 2) blind them from the dark to light, 3) make a decision of shoot or don't shoot.

My son has been hunting since 8 years old and he passed his hunter safety course at 10. So since he has been around guns most of his life, he has no interest in picking up a firearm. He knows the rules.

And I am an NRA certified instructor for several disciplines, so I have drilled the safety rules in my home.

I have no problem with having a loaded firearm in the home. We all know the rules and if someone were to come over who didn't, we would all know what to do.

quote:

The study is based on a 2002 telephone survey of about 241,000 adults and is the first to provide data on gun storage in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, its authors said.

Am I to believe that that many folks admitted to someone over the phone that they had a gun in the house?????...and further any other information about it?????

This is hard to believe!!!

First of I proud to say I had toy guns my kids had toy guns. We knew now the differants between toy guns and real ones.

There were always load guns around are there any other kind. One of my first memories is Dad taking his loaded colt officers model 38 out of the desk and put in on his night stand when a couple of bad guys were going around and doing home invasions. This was in northern Wis. a rare thing back in the early 60's.

I live out in the country with along drive way. Just the other night I see a car on the town road stop start up the drive back up slowly come down it stop again wait a bit start up the drive. Stop again when he got up where he could she my patrol vehicle Wait ect. It was very reassureing when I yell for my son bring your Mini and all I heard was the bolt being worked and My son taking up a defense postion to defend the house.

The guy in the vehicle was lost and knew he was in he wrong place when He saw my patrol vehicle. But he sure was acting stangely. I do not get vistors after night very offten and they drive right up to the house.

I can tell you there was do digging around in a safe to find loaded weapons.

This study seems just like other anti gun BS.

The last line should be.
There was NO digging around in a safe to find a loaded weapon.

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention is a hotbed of anti gun federal bureaucrats that often apparently have nothing better to do than attempt to screw with the citizens rights whilst they are on our payroll . They often play fast and loose with the statistics to prove some point for their agenda .

The so-called 1400 "children" killed by firearms each year is a good example . Within those numbers are any and all gangbangers up to the age of 18 who were shot by each other , other thugs , or the police .

Often times these clowns consider 25 year olds "children" for statistical purposes. The HCI has used these same guidelines. The truth is that crime and poverty go hand in hand. There are larger numbers of "minorities" that are in poverty. In America we provide opritunities to the poor that are above and beyond fair. It's become expected.
Here where I'm at now( for the time being) in California, white males are statistically a minority. Have you ever seen that on the news?

If you twist the truth enough it becomes a rope. Nate

Vapo
That was my thought exactly!!!!!

No wonder there is so much identity theft if people are that stupid to tell people things like this over the phone. I wonder if if they asked how many of them were illegal guns in the homes of drug dealers, etc. I am sure the stupid people would have admitted that also.

quote:

Vapo
That was my thought exactly!!!!!

Imagine that you're sitting at home....maybe cleaning the gun and sipping a little crown royal and the phone rings.....

Mr. Vapo, may I ask you some questions?

Reply:.....er...aaahhhh.....what kind of questions.....

caller: Do you own a gun?

Reply:....and what is your reason for asking?

Caller:....I am conducting a study on how many homes have loaded guns and children in them.

Reply:.......Yea, I keep a loaded 45 ACP and a loaded 12 Ga side by side and a loaded .30-06 in the house at all times............


Hey...they want me to think that conversation happened 241,000 times?

This one maybe.....

Mr. Vapo, may I ask you some questions?

Reply:.....er...aaahhhh.....what kind of questions.....

caller: Do you own a gun?

Reply:....and what is your reason for asking?

Caller:....I am conducting a study on how many homes have loaded guns and children in them.

Reply:.......Fuck you asshole and the horse you rode in on!!!!! Click....dial tone!!!!!

63 % of Wyoming, isnt that about 500?

I am a firm advocate of a citizens rights to protect the boundries of his own home, however I never keep a gun loaded in the home. My children can be taught but sometimes their friends come over and the little stinkers gravitate toward firearms like moths to a flame. In fact one of the worst for this in our neighborhood was here just yesterday and I have to regulate between advocating his intrest in guns and too much rope. Then there are cousins, neices, nephews etc. etc.

My master BR is downstairs and in it I keep a shotgun in a cabinet and a few rounds in a secret place nearby. By the time some POS beats my door down I can easily be out of bed and have that gun loaded. There are ways to get around these issues, but nothing in my home is anywhere near as valuable as the life of one of my own.

This is a mixed bag of Anti gun rhetoric and gun saftey, the antis can blow me, but I wont compromise on saftey. I suppose that in certian cases a strong argument could be made that there is a fine line between gun saftey in the home and preparedness in the face of disaster. I like to think that Ive found an acceptable way to walk that tightrope. The bottom line for me is in considering the odds of a violent break in vs the odds of a kid getting ahold of a loaded weapon. In nearly 50 years I have never needed to chamber one of those 12 gage rounds in the house, but I have had many, many circumstances where kids have pulled some very unexpected things.

Wstrnhuntr actualy the chances of a violent break are greater then a kid hurting himself or someone else with a gun.

There are many more home invasions every year then there are accidental shootings. When one cosiders the number of homes with guns and then the number of home invasions the odds are much more in favor of a home invasion then a accidental shootings.

It is just that the home invasions do not make the nightly news where one shooting does. because it push's the anti's agenda. A friend of mine a former chicago copper used to get a flyer from the dept. It was amazeing how many home invasions there were in month.

Some night fumble around in the dark and see just how long it takes to get your shotgun and your shells togather and loaded . Then think about doing being awaken from a dead sleep.

quote:

Am I to believe that that many folks admitted to someone over the phone that they had a gun in the house?????...and further any other information about it?????

What absolute, typical cook-the-book false statistics, the usual lies and b.s., from the Marxist Socialist gun grabbing wannabee tyrants who run the Centers for Disease Control.

Yeah, right, all those people told some voice over the phone they had guns in the house. Uh huh.

Too bad Prez. Bush doesn't have the balls to clean out those assholes at the C.D.C. who advocate the destruction of the United States Constitution through their crusade for the confiscation of our firearms... by Big Brother's Military and Police... always at the point of their guns, no less.

Too bad also, that our tax $$$ are used by those scumbag Marxist doctors and administrative worker peasants who use our $$$ to try and destroy us.

Oh well... maybe some of the left wing shitheads will walk point when they come to take our firearms. (??)

L.W.

I agree that one must first ask the question: Who underwrote this study, who actually undertook it, and who is presenting the data in its "finished form"?

I would not be surprised if the answers to such questions are largely some variation of "the anti-gun lobby."

That said, we live in a different day than when we were children. Violence, and now even serious drug use, are today commonplace in rural areas--and amongst people that are generally familiar (if not well versed) with firearms.

Whatsmore, keep in mind that most of us who post here are the sort of people who would go to great lengths to educate our children in the proper manner of how to handle firearms (and to treat, of course, EVERY firarm as though it were loaded).

But the majority of the people in the US are not like you or me, and don't take such care of their firearms or have such deep concern for their children. This, perhaps more than any other factor, is why we see the numbers of "children killed by firearms" listed above (note quotations).

But the question that should weigh most heavily on your own mind--if you are a parent--is "what happens when my child's friend comes over to the house?"

Sure, you can drill your kid time and again about what's right, what's wrong, and what never be done; but can you be 100% sure, 100% of the time, that some other kid in your house won't screw up? Can you be sure that your own child won't give in to peer pressure to show off your collection?

You may say that you are 100% certain, and I hope you're right.

Because if you're wrong, remember that you're not gambling with your own life, but with the life of your child or your neighbor's child.

Is that a risk worth taking?

After all, that's precisely what we're talking about here...risk management.

friar

quote:

63 % of Wyoming, isnt that about 500?

Hey statistics are statistics! Don't try to feather them!!!!! If you want to rob a home in Wyoming, almost 3/4's have a gun, and 100% know how to use them!

Now the scary part, if 63% have guns, how many guns do they have?????? He He He He! And even worse, how much ammo do they have????

Hmmmm, Wyoming has the highest percentage of homes with guns and the District of Columbia has the lowest - wonder how the crime rates in those two places compare? Anyone know why the report didn't give that information?

The rule in my house while i was growing up was... "If you touch a gun without permission, i will break your fingers, and beat your butt till you can't sit down for a week" and it kept me, my brother, and all 4 of my sisters inline.... all these people trying to say we need to protect our children have it all wrong... we need to DISCIPLINE our children. I am not a father yet, but when i am i WILL teach my children (all of them) proper gun handling techniques, and respect for firearms. There is no reason a child should touch a firearm of any type without parental consent/ supervision. I started going into the woods hunting with my brother and father at age 3.... started carrying my own gun at 8... i am now 25 with 4 years experience as a machinegunner, the only thing the Marines taught me about firearms that i hadn't heard 1000000000000000 times before... was the mechanics of them (i.e. what happens beyond "when you pull the trigger the hammer falls striking the firing pin, which contacts the primer which ignites the powder to fire the round") Once again i think discipline is the #1 concern to keep kids safe around guns.

I used to live in Wyoming, and I was a victim of a home invasion there. When the idiot heard the bolt drop on my rifle , he got all apologetic and pissed himself.

I've always kept a loaded weapon in the home; however, I found out just a couple of years ago that my son had an negligent discharge of my 9 MM one night while my wife and I were away. This was over 15 years ago when he was a teenager, and he finally had the balls to tell me. Luckily no one was hurt.

I don't keep any firearms loaded.. just so my son doesn't get into them.. He is not that interested in them anyway, but some of his little buddies are..

What I do keep for protection, is several Ruger P89s without the clips in them, but the clips are handily available.... Mom and Dad know where they are.. and where the pistols are hidden...My son knows they are hidden ( the guns) but not the ammo...

I am not worried so much about my son, as I am about other kids... who we usually don't have in the house unless mom or dad or both are home...

But a guy I worked with 10 yrs ago, had his 14 yr old adopted son killed by some neighbor kid who wanted to see his dad's handgun...The neighbor kid, pointed it at his stepson's chest and supposedly acted like he was going to shoot him..
and the gun went off....9mm to the chest killed him instantly....


ON the other hand,
My first wife was deathly afraid of guns, even tho her dad was a state trooper so she grew up with them in the house.... I traveled a lot for business so I wanted to keep a firearm in the house to protect her and our daughters ( under 5 yrs old) in case someone broke into the house while I was gone...She would have nothing of it...

I asked her what would she do if someone broke in the house and wanted to harm her and the kids.. her response was to please with the crook and beg him not to hurt her.. essentially relying on a crooks good graces ...See why I got rid of her!

So I asked her what if he goes after the girls...her response was to get down and pray to God at the immediate moment to not let the crook hurt her daughters...She wouldn't do a thing to defend them!

Then I wanted to get a large dog, since I could not rely on her to defend the girls in case of a break in... She would have nothing of it because she was afraid that it would EAT her Lap Dog!

I got a large dog anyway, and I came home one night and she had told me the dog had run off...
So for the next 4 nights I went out in the neighborhood and looked for it, and asked the local kids had they seen him, etc...I checked the local dog pounds etc.. NOTHING...

So after the 4th night of this until dark ( summer time) I come home and she is crying.. I asked her if she had heard any news about the dog... She said yes, that it was dead!

I asked her how did it die and where did they take the body....She told me that , 'they' didn't take it anywhere.. She had taken it to the Pound in the next county where her sister lives, and they took it in to be put to sleep...So I would not know about it...She didn't think I would go out and look for it, for 4 nights in a row...

( That was the last straw in the marriage..)

But maybe because of that.. she did let me keep an unloaded shotgun upstairs in the bedroom.. I told her, that no matter what language someone speaks or how strung out on drugs they may be, ANYONE knows the sound of a shotgun being cycled...So I showed her how to do that....

A month of so later, someone did break into the house, while I was gone.. She got up out of bed in her pajamas, but came out of the bedroom and then pumped the shotgun like she was chambering a round... the crook.. freaked out.. screamed and ran thru a sliding glass door and the screen and then jumped the fence in the backyard but also leaving a big hunk of his fanny's skin on the top of the fence when he went over it...There was blood all over the deck where he went thru the sliding glass door.....

There was also urine all over the carpet outside the bedroom where my ex wife has pissed all over the place during the incident.....

But the sound of a shotgun being chambered is still the best preventive protection if you don't have a loaded gun in the house or a dog....

Of course her being a "liberal"....she still did not change her mind....A year later I had enough and that marriage ended....Thank God that my kids were not hurt by that idiot!

seafire

quote:

Researchers said they aren't certain why some states reported higher rates than others,

Some study! The reason MA is at the bottom is probably explained by the following: it is ILLEGAL in MA to leave loaded, unlocked firearms around the house. The .03% that said yes just admitted to breaking the law

Seafire, I am sorry about the loss of a marriage. I went through one as well, and haven't recovered yet.
An anecdote: my son, who is now 20, had a youngster over when he was about five or six. The house we lived in had a built in gun cabinet in the hall where a wall heater had been taken out.
I was in the center bedroom when the youngster with Mark came cruising past the gun cabinet. He locked up like a bird dog on point and said something to the effect of "Wow! Look at those guns!"
My son said "Yes. Those are my father's guns, and we don't touch them."
Mark doesn't remember the incident, I am sure... But I do, and always will. He made me proud that day, and he has in other ways, for many years since.

It's all in the way you introduce guns to your kids. If you alienate guns from kids,you automatically peak their intrest in guns and this leads to them doing ignorant shit with guns. The same is true with alcohol,religion and a host of other things in life.

As for having a gun in your house for protection. Yes its a good idea,but only if you know when to use it. Blasting some fuckhead standing in your living room,at 3 am can lead to you being in more trouble then the criminal. Actually a dog chewing the shit out of some asshole makes more legal sense. Even then some cheese dick attorney will push for the dog being destroyed.

The way I read it 0.0008% of children in homes with loaded and unlocked guns are killed. You can get a higher percentage killed playing high school football!

RMK, in Colorado if they are in your house then they are fair game.

RMK I guess if you just let him rape and murder you and your family your troubles will be over.

RMK: The sheriff told me that if it happened again, and I shot the bastard to make sure I killed him.

My safe is full, but I have two .45's ready for action all the time. One is my concealed gun a Glock Model 30, the other is an H&K USP. I do keep them with the chamber empty and clip loaded nearby to prevent an accident.