up close! I shot this hog last evening (appx 150 live) from appx 10yds in Maud, TX. I was shooting straight down and all I could see through my scope was hair. The shot hit the spine and you see what happened. I was unsure of the area we were hunting before going to the woods with a couple of friends and the only rifle that I was positive that was dead on was my 300. Buying a 30-30 tomorrow.
300 Wby 180gr Wby loads
We were hunting over a friends gravity corn feeder (Pvc pipe) and they had really been hitting it hard lately and he had a few great images from his trail camera. We will be refilling the feeder today and also adding a few others to the area along with a length of telephone pole for them to rub on. We hope to bag at least one or two more this week.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
I'm curious about what bullet was used. I fast expanding (nosler bt, horn interlock) out of a weatherby at close range would probably not be a good choice. I don't thing a barnes or groove wouldn't have caused near that damage-difficult to say though when you hit heavy bone.
Steve
Posts: 81 | Location: nebr. usa | Registered: 03 January 2003
Well, a good hog is a dead hog I always say, shoot 'em with whatever you have. Anything from a .22 short to a T-Rex will do the trick, even saw one catch a 2.75" FFAR in Nam once. You coulda et right up to the hole on that one, but it was a really BIG hole.
Your 30-30 will do, a pump gun with buckshot is a better choice for that kind of shootin'. Try #1-3 2-3/4" for a good time. I'm known to be partial to 20 GA. #3 buck. Pigs die pretty easy. Best of luck to you.
It was a 180gr soft point. With the photo I was able to justify a new gun, thinking about a new lever 30-30, my wife loves wild hog and hated to see wasted meat. Yes dear I have plenty of other rifles but not one SPECIFICALLY for hogs as they are specialized critters that require just the right gun. My gun was ok for the first trip but I have to get serious now and be professional about this.
(I only begged a little, really)
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Might I suggest a 308. I load mine at about 2775fps with 150gn Power Points +1" @100 and -2.5"@ 200. It's my dedicated meat pig and w/tail gun to 200yds or so. I shoot most pigs eye/ear/neck up to 100yds or so. Those shot behind the shoulder at over 100yds have been deadly also. Capt david
Posts: 655 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 11 January 2004
In the woods we were hunting the furthest shot MIGHT have been 40 yds. When I hunt my deer hunting area where I might have a 1 to 200 yd shot I will continue to use my 300. These woods call for open sights and no need for anything near the size of my 300, a 30-30 will allow quick followups etc as with one step the hog could possibly be out of sight, plus I just want a 30-30 Marlin like my Dad's that I killed my first deer with. When I looked at the hog through the scope at 3x all I saw was hair, I had to find the nose and just back up to where I thought was the right spot.
BTW-This was a last second hunt(Friend called said lets go) and those were the only rounds I had on hand.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
If you're going to a lever gun go with a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70, 450, .444 or the .35 Rem with blunt hardcast bullets and you'll see no such meat damage yet PLENTY of penetration, in fact far more penetration than the .300 Wby will give you with all but a super-heavy solid.
Posts: 863 | Location: Mtns of the Desert Southwest, USA | Registered: 26 February 2004
Don't bet the farm on it! I recall a Canadian bear guide telling me about clients with 300 Win. Mags and 300 Weatherbys who shot at black bear, hit them in soft tissue and have them run off - and I assure you from personal experience, a black bear does not "take" a bullet anywheres as well as a deer. In the area of Ontario where I hunted (Nipissing District)the locals used a 303 on moose. The best explanation I ever heard about the differences in performance of cartridges came from my lodge owner one night in a bullshooting session. He felt that a HV bullet that does not strike bone simply zips through and there is no build up of hydrostatic shock so the animal runs off. (I don't know about you but my PH told me one piece of advice in shooting at Cape buffalo: "Break bones". It sure worked on my one and only hunt)
Posts: 649 | Location: NY | Registered: 15 January 2004
I have 3 boxes of 06 150gr and 3 of 280 rem 140gr failsafe loads coming this week and I will give them a try and see how they perorm. I am still picking up the 30-30 as I need a good open sight lever gun and I like the 30-30 and grew up with it and it will work just fine for close quarter hogs as that is all it will most likely ever hunt.
I plan on buying another MRC action and having a nice 308 built up after I am done with my 375 H&H but for now I already have a 243, 270, 280 rem, 3006x2 and 300wby in the low to medium calibers,all scoped bolt rifles.
Thanks for all thoughts and advice
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Quote: He felt that a HV bullet that does not strike bone simply zips through and there is no build up of hydrostatic shock so the animal runs off.
I thought that the foolish myth about bullets going too fast to expand was dead by now.Anyone that understands anything about bullet performance on game knows that the faster a bullet is travelling the faster it expands.The only problem with high velocities is that bullets can over expand or fragment if they are of too light of contruction.Slowing a bullet down will result in less expansion not more.
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002
You sound like just the type who shoot at bench rest and talk very learnedly. Don't make me laugh. When I was a kid hunting chucks I shot a 220 Swift using a 48 gr. bullet moving out at 4140 fps. The bullet blew up on a clump of grass.I wouldn't have dreamed trying to shoot a deer with it. I hunted in Africa with a PH who carried a 470 NE -and that 400 gr. bullet moved out at about 2300 fps. I shot a record book Cape buff (9th Ed,SCI record book, page 89)with a 375 H&H. He praised the 375 H&H and even said he used it to do cull shooting of elephant. I asked him why then did he carry the 470.; He responded: " Gerry, the 375 is a killing gun. The 470 is a STOPPING gun". That's my answer to your insulting post. You're a typical Canuck idiot.
Posts: 649 | Location: NY | Registered: 15 January 2004
You must be a politician by the way you avoided answering my post.Your arrogance and ego show,unfortunately any knowledge that you have about bullet performance does not.
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002
Quote: I thought that the foolish myth about bullets going too fast to expand was dead by now.Anyone that understands anything about bullet performance on game knows that the faster a bullet is travelling the faster it expands.The only problem with high velocities is that bullets can over expand or fragment if they are of too light of contruction.Slowing a bullet down will result in less expansion not more.
And from Gerald:
Quote: I shot a 220 Swift using a 48 gr. bullet moving out at 4140 fps. The bullet blew up on a clump of grass.
Hey Gerald, You are agreeing with SJ. Perhaps you misread his post.
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Hey Doug, Sounds like a bunch of fine reasons to get the 30-30. Which model are you considering? Are you aware they make a Stainless 30-30 version - Model 336SS? Darn shame it isn't Laminated or Synthetic.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
What it really looks like we have here is a perfect reason for Doug to justify a new gun to the wife.
Gerald: The simple fact of the matter is that any bullet on the market today, with the ecxeption of a solid expands proportinally to the velocity at impact. As for your inflamitory comments about StubbleJumper and Canadians in general they diminish us all on this forum, especially yourself. This is a place for intelligent descussion not name calling.
Feel shame,
Posts: 248 | Location: Republic of Alberta | Registered: 04 April 2002
Hot Core I have been looking at model 336's today on the internet, I am not sure if I care for the stainless model, just a personal thing but I do not think it looks as good as a good old blued gun on that model. I am going to look around for an older model,IMO 30 years ago the wood was much nicer on the 336 models and for the sake of sentiment I would like one like the one I hunted with of my Fathers growing up. One that has been hunted and broken in and could tell a few stories.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Does anyone else see the pattern here?All the information given is based on hearsay and other peoples opinions with little information based on actual first hand experience.When the bulk of a persons information is based on hearsay and other peoples opinions, it usually means that the person doesn't have enough verifiable information or first hand experience to make an informed opinion themself.
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002
I couldn't agree more with Stubblejumper's expansion explanation.The higher the velocity the quicker the expansion.I shot a whitetail last fall with a 180 grain Nosler Partition @ a velocity of 3320 out of my .300 Ultra Mag and you could have thrown a small cat through the hole it left as the "HV bullet simply zipped through."This shot was behind the shoulder and encountered no more bone than a couple of ribs.Too bad we can't ask Doug's hog what he thinks of bullet expansion at high velocity. Did you have to track him far Doug?
Posts: 157 | Location: Alberta,Canada | Registered: 25 April 2004
the Marlin 336/3030 is a great Texas pig gun but the best Texas pig gun is the Browning BLR in 308 with plain jain cheap 150grn CoreLoks- nothin better!!! they have a good 100yd advantage over the 3030
Marlin 30-30 with iron sights will make a heck of a lot better pig gun at the ranges irons are good for than any 7STW with ballistic tips. My though is a winchester 94 and it shoots 170 grain Power Points so good I ain't selling it. I have gotten excellent results with the 170 corelokt too so be happy and don't listen to gun nuts whining.
I don't think there was anything wrong with the 300. You picked the wrong bullet and the wrong distance. George was spot on. If you would have used Noslers or Barnes you would not have had that problem. Not that I would let that stop me from buying a new gun, but unless you handload I would choose something that you can buy good cast bullets for such as the Marlin 1894 in 44 mag or the 336 in 38-55. Buffalo Bore and others load hard cast bullets so you would be good at close up or normal ranges. As far as the 300 WBY rolling off a bear ROTFLMAO Yup it could happen just stay away from ballistic tips for bear hunting ! I will admit I once shot a Caribou at 15 yards with a 270 Weatherby and NBT factory loads. What I got looked a lot like what your pig looked like. The most that could be found of the bullet were little tiny brass slivers that were so small you could hardly see them. Proper bullet selection is key no matter what you shoot.
Quote: ... I am going to look around for an older model,IMO 30 years ago the wood was much nicer on the 336 models and for the sake of sentiment I would like one like the one I hunted with of my Fathers growing up. One that has been hunted and broken in and could tell a few stories. ...
Hey Doug, Sounds like a fine plan to me. I do understand how some folks like the looks of the Blue better. In fact, the very last rifle I traded for was a Blue & Wood Marlin. I prefer the Stainless simply because I had to carry B&W for many years and found the conditions I usually hunt in are very tough on them.
And I understand the desire to be able to use a particular vintage firearm to honor that time period and those previous memories. In my case, I prefer "newly made", but that is just me.
I also like the idea of the Iron Sights and I have a 3x K3-C3 old Weaver mounted in Weaver Rings for mine as well. Easy to remove and replace it with accuracy not being affected enough to matter.
I have an Aluminum Weaver Scope Base on mine and it has a couple of nice advantages. When the Scope is off, you can still see the Irons over the top of the Base. In fact, it tends to draw your eye to the Irons quicker. Another absolutely great thing about the Weaver Base is you can easily "File" another cross-slot if the Rings don't align properly for a scope.
I had the Scope originally mounted in some other stuff and then remembered just how well the old Weaver stuff works.
I do prefer a Scope for the low-light conditions of Dawn and Dusk, but am also considering some Williams FireSights. These look like a good idea, but I've never tried them.
Once I got the rifle sighted in with my Hunting Load, I've spent the majority of the time shooting with the Irons. Here is where I pay homage to all the years I used Irons in my youth. Brings back a lot of good memories. And I expect your rifle will do the same for you.
Best of luck in locating the one you want.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Thanks, I have a couple SS rifles and I love them, where I will use this rifle it will not deal with some of the harsh conditions (rain, heavy hunidity etc) my others do. This gun will have one purpose, hogs in the deep woods and when I hunt them elsewhere I will use one of my many scoped rifles. Thinking about this last night I think I am also going to purchase one for my oldest son to use as well, unlike myself I started him with a nice scoped win bolt in 270 and he has never had the pleasure of hunting with a great lever legend or even open sights.
I have fibre optic sights on a few of my Turkey shotguns and they are fantastic and as you mentioned I too will probably install them on the 336 because it does get darker in the woods a bit quicker than outside. This hog came in appx:45mins before dark and it was beginning to get dark in the woods. The open sights will really pay off in these conditions combined with the very, very close quarters.
Shoot straight
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Jeez, can't think of anything more to say than that! The 300 Weatherby is arguably the most versatile cartridge out there. When you were queried as to what kind of bullet you were shooting you answered with "some kind of Weatherby soft point" (or words to that effect) speaks volumes. Anybody that uses conventional soft points, be they Hornadys, Ballistic tips, Power Points and of course Sierras out of a 300 Weatherby should always (at any speed exceeding 2700 fps actually), always be cognizant of the fact that range is a MAJOR FACTOR when shooting game. Had you been shooting a Partition, X, A Frame, etc we would not be having this post. As for the black bears, they fold like a house of cards when hit with the 300 ( or a 308, 270, etc. Black bears aren't particularly tough) George said it perfectly. I'm just more long winded than he is. jorge
PS: 45/70 or 444 are good. ANYHTING but a 30.30!
Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001
My main point was that I do not need a 300 wby period to hunt hogs especially at 10-40 yd distances. I especially do not need a scope in those woods and will not use one again. Yes, bullet selection was wrong but again it was all I had on hand for this 20 min from phone call invitation to getting to the woods hunt.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
dw: your last post makes perfect sense. had you couched your initial post in those terms, I think the tenor of this post would have been quite diferent. One more comment regarding your wish for a different caliber/rifle, etc. Whatever you do, besides the obvious lessons learned of bullet selection, USE A SCOPE! hogs are habitually nocturnal and a GOOD scope is an essential component of your hunting rig. jorge
Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001
DW if you want a 30/30 get one it will kill hogs just fine and if you like open sights go with that to. You are the one pulling the trigger so get what YOU want to shoot. I think alot of people thought from your first post you were bashing the 300 Weatherby when you were just showing what the wrong bullets at a short distance can do. Also you just wanted an excuse to get another rifle nothing wrong with that.
I would never bash my beloved 300wby, it has served me faithfully for 20 years now and it is still my main go to gun. This 30-30 will only be used hunting pigs in this area and really no where else, I have plenty of other great scoped guns for long shot hunts etc. For a used 30-30 @ appx: $150.00-200 I really can't see going wrong here.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Doug: My best friend and business partner up in Maine, also owns a large hog/deer hunting operation in Clarendon County South Carolina called Black River Plantation. I go up there all the time to hunt and I even guide from time to time to help out. The 3030 will kill a hog ok, but you are going to waste valuable hunting time if you don't scope your rifle. Those suckers are mainly taken at dawn and dusk and w/o a scope you are handicapping yourself. jorge
Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001
I am also a big advocate of scopes and every rifle I currently own is wearing a good one, but this hunting area is tiny, just a hole in the woods. I shot this hog from directly above and all I could see was hair through the scope. Most of this hole would be very difficult with a scope, lighting, ranges etc. I figured with a Williams firesight setup on the rifle it would be just fine, iron sights would also allow me faster follow through if numerous targets were available as is quite often the case around here. I am surrounded by corps of engineer property that is covered up in pigs, if you put out corn they will in short order find it.
Doug
Posts: 696 | Location: Texas, Wash, DC | Registered: 24 April 2003
Roger that Doug, I see your point. BTW, I "borrowed" your picture to post on another forum. Some people over there need pictures instead of the {well} written word to understand some things. I love my 300 Weatherby too! jorge
Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001
Quote: ... I think I am also going to purchase one for my oldest son to use as well, ... I have fibre optic sights on a few of my Turkey shotguns and they are fantastic and as you mentioned I too will probably install them on the 336 because it does get darker in the woods a bit quicker than outside. This hog came in appx:45mins before dark and it was beginning to get dark in the woods. The open sights will really pay off in these conditions combined with the very, very close quarters. ...
Hey Doug, Darn nice of you to help the boy out like that, and it will sure set a good example for him to follow when he has sons.
By the way, jorge is quoting some good info on the South Carolina Hogs. They do tend to lay up during the heat of the day and get frisky right at twilight. In those situations the "light gathering" capability of even a small powered scope allows "clean" shots that just can't be taken with Irons. That is one reason I want the capability to slip a scope "On or Off" easily.
The S.C. Lowcountry legal hunting hours are from 1 hour prior to sunrise until 1 hour after sunset during Deer Season. And depending on where you are in the state and what is in Season, you can hunt Hogs all year long and around the clock. So, I can see where he is coming from with his scope recommendaion.
One of my buddies hunts with a Club that uses dogs. This is of course down during the sunny(aka hot) portion of the day. And they either use Revolvers or BIG Knives to wade in and kill the Hogs.
Even talked with a guy at the Range one day who gave his two son's some kind of El Cheapo 9mm Pistols. They went down near the Savanna River Plant and killed two pick-up loads of Hogs in a little over an hour one day. He told me they invited a bunch of neighbors over to help clean the Hogs and it took nearly two entire days to get them all processed. He said he cussed them the entire time they were cleaning them and then bragged on them the entire time he was eating the Hogs.
Point being, the 30-30 should kill them when any old Standard Grade 150gr or 170gr Bullet is stuck in the right place. And drawing them to corn should have them near you about any time of the day if it is well shaded and has water nearby.
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Tell me all you can about the "Fiber Optic" sights you are currently using. I'm particularly interested in how long they will "glow" as the sun goes down(or comes up).
Example 1: Let's say Sunset was at 8PM and no moon. Things would begin loosing their color and turn to shades of gray from about 8:25-8:40PM(aka SUPER Prime Time for Deer). Then at 8:45PM it would be too dark to shoot.
During this situation, what time will the Fiber Optics become un-usable if you are in the shadows? Do you find one color better than another one(red, green, etc.)? Do you think of them as fairly rugged, able to take a bump, or fragile?
Example 2: Same as above except you have a Full Moon strong enough to cast shadows beginning at 8:45PM.
Will the Fiber Optics glow if you are standing out in the moon light? How about in the shadows? Any tricks to them?
Anyone else with Fiber Optic experience feel free to jump in too.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Dutch.
Yup it could happen just stay away from ballistic tips for bear hunting ! 
I will admit I once shot a Caribou at 15 yards with a 270 Weatherby and NBT factory loads. What I got looked a lot like what your pig looked like. The most that could be found of the bullet were little tiny brass slivers that were so small you could hardly see them. Proper bullet selection is key no matter what you shoot.
