This year, I realized I had a Preference Point for elk left over from 2009, the last time I applied. I decided that instead of just letting it go to waste I would put in for a Late Season Cow hunt in Unit 421. Last time I hunted up there was 2005.

I had been watching and one of the reasons I had not applied was the cost of the permit went up to $250.00, which really isn't all that bad for a chance at some cow meat. In 2009 when I applied I didn't get drawn so no big deal, I got a PP and a refund. What I hadn't paid any attention to when making the application, was that instead of the normal $3.00 administrative fee, it had gone up to $25.00. Wasn't real happy, but I know Game & Fish Depts. have horrendous budgetary restraints put on them by the state.

Got my Big Game Guide/Application forms yesterday, and looking thru it, noticed that new for 2013, to be included in the drawing, an applicant has to purchase a $10.00 Habitat Stamp. To me that seems wrong in some way. They are forcing folks that want to hunt there to purchase something, that if they are not drawn for a tag, will have no use for and there are no refunds on the habitat stamps.

That addition makes the total $364.00. Still not a really excessive amount, but forcing people to buy something that they may not or will not use just seems to me a poor way of attracting business.

I am going ahead with my plans to put in for the tag as I should draw in that unit with one PP. I just feel that these type of nickel and dime add ons, especially to Non-Resident hunters is only going to have a negative effect in the long run..

10.00 habitat stamp to play is better than having to buy a non resident hunting license that most never use (60.00 - 120.00) like Utah, Arizona, Nevada and Idaho may you buy.

The $10 doesn't bother me

You think $360 is high for a cow tag....you wont like an out of state pronghorn or deer much either

I look at it from a different stand point. We must invest in the resource we wish to use.

There is an actual cost to raise wildlife. In many states we have biologists, officers, damage payments, habitat restoration, habitat preservation, studies, etc.... If I want to hunt the animals within a state then I must pay the State to raise that animal for me.

That $10 for a habitat stamp to apply in a draw is what is helping to have the herd present when we draw permits. The elk you desire to shoot has lived in the state for 6 months to 12 years. $10 habitat payment and and a $25 app fee is minimal in supporting "your" elk until you arrive to hunt it. And I do understand the Federal lands argument, but there are still other real costs to "raise" wildlife.

This is just horrible! Crazy, it is your duty to boycott Colorado!

Funny

I was simply commenting on something, nothing more. As I stated in my post I am going ahead with applying for the tag, and I actually understand the reasons behind Colorado doing this, it does not mean I have to like it or that I cannot express my opinion now does it?

As much stuff as some of you that responded whine about, it is somewhat infantile to get your panties wadded up merely because someone says something about a new charge that simply seems to be something that could be counter productive in attracting Non-Resident hunters, which in turn could have negative effects on the management programs/goals that are being worked on.

I did not ask anyone to agree with me, I simply made an observation, when did that become a crime?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I did not ask anyone to agree with me, I simply made an observation, when did that become a crime?

March 23, 2010

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
something that could be counter productive in attracting Non-Resident hunters, which in turn could have negative effects on the management programs/goals that are being worked on.

You are of course correct. I'm sure that there will be some who will argue the point. To them I would ask: "If you believe that the increased fees do not hurt hunter recruitment, would you be willing to argue that the new fees somehow help to recruit more hunters?"

To me a $10 fee is not even worth giving a second thought. On the other hand the increased NR tag fees in places like Montana are obscene. For that matter the RESIDENT Tag fee for bull elk here in CA is obscene($1200+ for a resident tag).

But these little fees do add up.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
As I stated in my post I am going ahead with applying for the tag

Dont do it! You'll only be enabling them! Hit em where it hurts Crazy and thats in the pocketbook!

quote:

March 23, 2010

I stand corrected. The point I was trying to make and failed at, is that it seems to me placing the onus on Non-Resident hunters to make up for a lack of revenue by not increasing the license fees of the Resident hunters, seems somewhat counter productive.

If I remember correctly a Resident Bull Elk license in Colorado in 1992 was $35.00, I cannot remember what a Non-Resident license was, but it could be bought over the counter as could a deer license.

Making an observation about an increase in the cost of a license does not appear to be a crime most places. Making comments about the little add ons that add up does not appear to be a crime, most places.

The ONLY thing I was attempting to point out, was that at some point in time, these continual little increases and add ons for Non-Residents is going to or will have a negative effect.

For folks that do not want Non-Residents coming to their state it won't be a big deal to them, but it will be a big deal to their state game department.

I have a feeling that new little fee is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

But don't feel bad. My wife and I didn't have children, but we pay a couple thousand each year in taxes to the local school district!!

This isn't a condemnation of Colorado, I enjoy visiting Colorado any chance I get, especially if it involves hunting or fishing.

The point I was trying to make that evidently was construed as blasphemy toward God, was simply wondering what all these add ons are going to do in regards to attracting or discouraging Non-Resident hunters.

I just wonder at what point a decline in Non-Resident hunters will force the various Game Departments in the various states to start passing along the increases to Resident hunters.

I can hunt Colorado for less $$$$$ than Texas

Crazy,
You obviously haven't been putting in for many NR tags lately. The game of requiring applicants to either buy a license, stamp, point, etc., to participate in a draw has fully blossomed in the last decade. CO was actually almost late to the party, at least for a western state.
Not saying I don't agree with you, but it is almost institutionalized throughout the west.

And yes, some states like ID and MT have seen a drop off in sales to the point where they no longer always sell out. There are myriad reasons, but high fees, non-refundable license fees, etc., are here to stay. Not long ago ID deer tags sold out in less than a day. The state is now actively advertising to NR's beggin them to come back. Supply and demand and market forces do have an impact, no matter what our politicians seem to think.
Bill

That $10 habitat stamp is charge on your 1st license or application only. So, I pay that $10 on my spring gobbler tag. I don't pay it again on my elk, deer, small game or fishing license.

The $25 is taken from your refund if you don't draw a tag. It is waved if you had a tag in the previous year.

I want you to prove that. This discussion has nothing to do with lease prices or hunt costs, this is simply about license fees.

A Non-Resident if they have a place to hunt, can on the $315.00 General License kill 5 white tails/2 mule deer/2 javelina/4 turkeys, varmints including Mountain Lion and feral hog.

It is not my fault that Texas does not have any Public Land. But that is NOT part of the discussion. The discussion is about license fees, NOTHING ELSE.

So you prove that someone can go to any other state and have access to shooting the same amount of game for that license price.

Llamapacker, what is it about mentioning a small fee and expressing an opinion that it seems counter-productive in attracting Non-Resident hunters that has you and some other folks foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog, and for your info I hunted bear in Idaho in 2010 and recently put in for antelope tags in Wyoming for 2013.

I was simply making some comparisons about how things have changed over the years, what is your problem?

CHC---Bill didn't say anything to hurt your feelings, LOL! He even stated that he didn't necessarily disagree with you! It is true that many states are relying on the NRs to pay the bulk of their G&F budgets and it's now starting to bite them in the azz. Wyoming had several Bills introduced in the current legislative session that would have raised NR fees considerably while either not raising resident fees at all or very little. All went down in committee and now G&F is faced with being in the hole with their budget by 2014 and no further bills can even be introduced this year. That means the earliest any licenses or fees will go up is in 2015. The G&F is probably going to find it necessary to make some serious cuts in the coming year or beg for General Fund money to bail them out and the latter will be fought by many who don't hunt or fish.

It would seem that a non resident license would be even cheaper considering the state of Texas has very little public land to take care of but.....

I worked with a guy years ago that was gruntal

I asked him one day

Eric, if I gave you a 100 lb sack of gold would you complaine about your back hurting from carrying it to the bank?

Fuel is $3.69 a gallon......my biggest hunting expense by far

Wow!$10bucks.Really?

Topgun, my feeling are not hurt in any way. I merely made a post about the way in which state game agencies, in this case Colorado, is throwing in these new fees on Non-Resident hunters and I merely feel that it could or will prove counter productive in attracting Non-Residents.

Wasn't bad mouthing Colorado DOW or agonizing over an additional $10.00. Basically I was commenting on a change that had taken place that I was not aware of.

Are people going to have to start submitting comments to a committee before making a post in this section. Have not seen an announcement from the management of this site stating that was the new policy.

Have you seen such a change in protocol for posting on this site anywhere, can you provide a link to it?

Have you even read my original post on this subject? Basically I was merely mentioning the changes that have taken place in Colorado's Big Game application process and commenting that in my opinion some of the changes may not be or are not particularly Non-Resident friendly.

Nothing more. I have done talked to the guide about the hunt and will be submitting the application shortly. If I had any kind of actual problem, I would not be trying to get this hunt put together.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

March 23, 2010

I stand corrected.

No worries. Nobody read Obamacare, I'm sure it's in there somewhere that "making an observation" is now illegal.

I think I will take your advice and move on to something else that does not stress so many folks.

With all respect here.This hunting that we all enjoy takes a certain amount of money.If you dont have it to spend then dont complain that you dont.Go earn some more by working hard and buy your hunt of a lifetime.We all spend our money to put in for limited tags and after so many years of not drawing put up the deposit on that guided hunt of a lifetime.$10per year is only $110 if after 11years you draw say a goat tag.The lottery reults arent that good.Better off though just spending some money.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I think I will take your advice and move on to something else....

Like New Mexico?

Residents have to buy the stamp also. Good news is that if you are over 64 you don't have to have one.
C.G.B.

CHC---You start all these threads certainly knowing there will be comments or thoughts offered by others and then you certainly do appear to get your feelings hurt if there is even one post that slightly disagrees from your viewpoint. You even seem to disagree half the time with people that are trying to say they at least partially if not fully agree with you as you did with Bill and your sarcastic remarks back to him. That little $10 stamp is nothing like most mentioned when you compare it to a lot of the states forcing NRs to buy a license and/or PPs to even be able to have a chance at putting in for a tag they probably won't draw. Wyoming is where I usually do my nonresident hunting now and they charge $30 for an antelope PP, $40 for deer, and $50 for elk and if you want to hunt any real quality areas you better have some PPs built up. It's just the way it is in this day and age that the prices to hunt are going way up and putting a lot of the middle class folks out of the sport. It is not going to get any better and that's just stating fact. As another mentioned, gasoline is now probably a bigger expense that anything on an outstate hunt. I spent $1400+ just on gas last year on my nine week trip out to Wyoming and ND and only $700+ on the hunting licenses for a deer, antelope, and pheasants. The way gas prices have gone back up around $4/gal this winter in what should be a low demand time of year with the lowest prices, the Fall costs are not looking good at all again to head out west!

Crying about a $10 stamp? Have you ever applied for tags in Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, and now New Mexico? Did you cry too, when you had to buy a stamp in WY if you drew a tag, or did you just not buy one???

I am going to respond to you TopGun and this is my last response on this issue.

As for this comment you made, Sir, you are putting your belief/interpretation on to what I am trying to say. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. It is when they start claiming that I am reacting in a way that I am not doing.

quote:

you certainly do appear to get your feelings hurt if there is even one post that slightly disagrees from your viewpoint

The comment I made to Llamapacker was not done with a shred of sarcasm intended. I mention an increase in the cost of hunting, no different than anyone mentioning an increase in the price of gasoline or milk, yet several people take things completely out of context and start making accusations or telling out right lies.

I have never had a problem on any of the hunts I have done over the years buying all the necessary license/tags/permits/stamps. There have been a few folks made reasonable comments on the situation and I appreciate their input. There are a few folks however that have twisted the whole thing around with their accusations and lies as to throw my original post out of context.

Every body on this site makes comments about increasing prices on damn near every thing in their lives. My OP was merely an observation about how prices keep going up for Non-Resident hunters, and the possibility of such continual increases having a negative effect on attracting Non-Resident hunters. There was nothing more to it than that. Topgun, it is not the disagreeing , disagreement over varying issues are part of life. It is the personal attacks/accusations/lies, from/by people that actually do not know one thing about me.

My Original Point still stands, I think these continual little increases and forcing Non-Residents to purchase stamps or licenses, that if they do not draw a tag, will have no use for, can/will or does have a negative impact on attracting Non-Resident hunters. Paying the $10.00 is like buy 2.5 gallons of gas, not that big a deal and I will already have it if I get drawn or if I don't get drawn and decide to go to Colorado fishing this coming summer it is something I won't have to fool with remembering to buy.

I am out of this one, the rest of you folks can hash this out till doomsday and call me all the names and tell all the lies you choose to.

There you go again on the defensive regarding my comment! I happen to agree with everything you've stated regarding fees, but made one little comment that it looks like you get your feelings hurt too easily and you made another long post that wasn't necessary and sounded very childish! It's to the point where a lot of people just respond with little ditties knowing how you will react because you're the one who gets his panties in a wad most of the time and starts crying how everyone is against you. Such is the internet and if you don't want stuff put back at you it would seem like you would have figured out by now not to even get things started since you seem to be the whipping boy of the Forum because you make it so easy.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
There you go again on the defensive regarding my comment! I happen to agree with everything you've stated regarding fees, but made one little comment that it looks like you get your feelings hurt too easily and you made another long post that wasn't necessary and sounded very childish! It's to the point where a lot of people just respond with little ditties knowing how you will react because you're the one who gets his panties in a wad most of the time and starts crying how everyone is against you. Such is the internet and if you don't want stuff put back at you it would seem like you would have figured out by now not to even get things started since you seem to be the whipping boy of the Forum because you make it so easy.

As a former Montana resident and a current Colorado resident I'm all for the higher non-resident prices, sorry guys. Heck in Alaska you can't even hunt brown bear without a guide if you're a non-resident. There should be some benefits to actually living in a state.

No disagreeing with you there Chuck, but when it gets so the fees are ten times or more than what the residents pay that is getting to be a little much!!!

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
Residents have to buy the stamp also. Good news is that if you are over 64 you don't have to have one.
C.G.B.

This is a fact. I'm still a Colorado resident and I have to cough up the $10 just like the non-residents. This year is a little different in the way they are collecting it. Previously you had to pay the $10 if you drew a tag. This year you have to pay the $10 to apply. So, everyone coughs it up not just the ones that draw.

By the way, WY does something very similar.You have to buy a conservation stamp in addition to your hunting license to legally hunt there.

The one positive thing the tag does for us is it lets DOW buy and lease hunting and fishing property that is then opened up to the public. Right now we have 300 state wildlife areas, 550,000 acres, and another 550,000 of leased land. A lot of this land is in places where there is little public access. If you like to hunt small game, doves, ducks, etc. the SWA's are a good deal. I know this is a totally foreign concept to those from Texas, but how much hunting can you buy in Texas for 10$?
C.G.B.