Elk Hunt With Trinagle-X Ranch – Wyoming

Above is the elk my son shot.

I will try to describe the experience in a "matter-of-fact" way, hopefully without imparting my personal opinioins. If you want me to share my personal opinions/comments on the experiences, that included many that were good or excellent and ones that were not so good, PM or call me.

Our party of 3 hunters traveled to Wyoming for guided wilderness elk hunting, from 9 Oct 2015 to 19 Oct 2015. We joined 4 other hunters for the hunting, totaling seven. I drove and brought a deep freeze and generator while the other two flew into Jackson airport.
The experiences were expressed by us and others in various terms, including awesome, friendly, terrifying, and even bizarre.

The Triangle-X ranch has been operational for about 80 years, established by the Turner family. Robert Turner is the current “ranch master” and has the assistance of his dad and a large cadre of support staff. The ranch is about 20 miles North of Jackson Hole and is modern, clean, and well equipped.

We arrived at the ranch as specified, on Thursday afternoon and were met by Robert Turner, an exceedingly affable gentleman who made it known that he was in charge. We settled into a very cozy cabin, one of many cabins available for guests. Our cabin had a double bed and two singles, a large separate full bathroom, and a dressing room. The cabin was very clean and comfortable. The heating unit was more than adequate and there was enough hot water for three of us to shower and wash up.

The afternoon of our arrival, we met two of the other hunters that would be at our wilderness camp. That evening we met the other two during a briefing by Robert, who confirmed that we all had our hunting documents, then went on to explain that he and his crew totally adhered to Wyoming rules. Two items mentioned were that "if an animal was shot and tagged in the afternoon, it would be gutted, covered and left till next day when the pack mules could be brought in." It was stated that if a bear were to find and devour the carcass during the night, whatever remnants remained would be the hunter’s only elk prize. Also, since some hunting occurred very close to the Yellowstone Park boundaries, if an animal were wounded and managed to cross into the Park, that animal no longer belonged to the hunter. This was an absolute!

That evening all the hunters and some staff gathered at the dining hall, where an excellent meal was served “family style”. We engaged in all the requisites of getting acquainted, background info about each of us, and a little enlightenment of what we would experience from the hunters that hunter with Triangle-X several times. Our group of 7 consisted of (by occupation) 4 M.D.s and 3 engineers.
That night my group segregated and packed our camp gear, then set it out for the staff to pick up the following morning at 5 am.

On Friday morning everyone gathered at the dinning hall for a great breakfast, then meandered to a large van that transported all of us to the Pacific Trail head (a 20 minute ride), where we met some of the wranglers who had our horses out and ready. We were told that all our packed items were already on the trail heading to the hunting camp.
We inserted our rifles into the scabbards, were given bagged lunches that nicely fit in the saddle bags, then hopped onto the horses for the ride to the hunt camp. Let me say that we were advised in advance that the ride in would take about 6 hours. Robert would lead the way, maintaining a consistent walking pace.

After about 30 minutes on the trail, everyone stopped to look back because one of the hunters had been thrown from his horse and was at first not moving, then flailed a bit before slowly picking himself up off the ground. He was a bit sore, but mounted up again to continue the treck. At about mid-way, we all stopped, dismounted and let our horses graze while we found a shady spot to have lunch. When I was dismounting, I was surprised that my left hunting boot got caught in the stirrup, even though the boot was only inserted just past the toes. Robert was “on-the-spot” immediately to assist, and advised me that what I just experienced could get me killed, and I should make sure it doesn’t happen in the future. For me, it did keep happening, even after my guide said he had changed my saddle stirrups to bigger ones (but perhaps not big enough). This also occurred to others.

After lunch we all saddled up and continued riding to the hunting camp. We arrived at about 3 pm. I learned to ride when I was a teenager, but had not been on horseback for over 20 years, and even though at home, I had been walking 2 to 2-1/2 miles 4 to 5 times per week (Which includes major hills), I was unprepared for the “beating” my horse inflicted over the 6 hours. (He would refuse to keep pace with the group, then with or without coaxing, would trot for several seconds, walk then trot some more, making it near impossible to “post” and get into a rhythm. Let me just say my rear end took a beating.)

To me the camp seemed very large, with about ten 2 person guest tents, several tents for staff, a big tent that housed the kitchen and dining tables. Nearby outside was a corral and tack tent. On the other side was a small gate leading up hill to the latrine tent that was about 30 yards from the compound. The perimeter of the whole camp site had fencing wired for high voltage to keep bears out. (The fence charger was only activated at night.)
The hunters and staff socialized that afternoon and each of the hunters was introduced to the guide that would accompany them throughout the hunt. There were 4 guides. There was suddenly a commotion outside, and we all headed out, where we saw a massive grizzly some 300 plus yards South of camp with his head to the ground and moving toward us at a medium walk. We watched as he entered some water-willows, then came out about 100 yards from camp, The bear must have been following his nose, because he seemed very surprised when he looked up and saw us. He immediately headed off into the brush and woods East of camp. As the bear was departing, Robert grabbed a noise pistol that could shoot fireworks, and proceeded to encourage the bear to stay away from our camp site.
That evening we got our first opportunity to taste the cook’s fine food. Let me say that the cook was very experienced, and some of his items were definitely gourmet quality and the rest were just plain excellent.

We were advised by our guide that he would come to our tent at 4 am, light a fire and the Coleman lantern, giving ample time for the tent to warm, for us to dress for a 4:30 breakfast and a 5 am ride out to our hunting area. There are 4 hunting areas, and ours was the furthest from camp, an arduous two hour ride.
Breakfast was as good as expected.
After breakfast we mounted our horses and the guide headed out of camp. The ride was challenging, since it was black dark with virtually no moon and we were told to trust our horses to stay on the trail and follow the guide’s horse. Someone forgot to tell that to our horses though. While riding we could see almost nothing, just the occasional shadow of the guide’s horse in front. In the dark, we often would get surprised by our horses “bolting forward” to catch up to the guide who had somehow gotten 25 yards in front of us. Branches and dead sticks that infringed on the trail were a problem, such that our guide was almost continuously hollering "Branch" as a warning to us. In addition, it wasn’t uncommon for our horses to be off=trail a bit, just enough to rub or clip trees with our knees, legs and faces. We were very glad to be wearing safety glasses and durable hats that even though we would duck, often broke or pushed branches away as our horses followed our guide's horse. For us, the ride to our hunt area took more than two hours, and as a result we were still on the trail during what I considered the best hunting time of the day (Daybreak to an hour after).

The third hunt day, the guide indicated that we would head out a half hour earlier, so on that day we headed out of camp at 4:30 am, but still arrived at the hunting area well after sunup. (The guide must have decided it was futile to leave at 4:30, so went back to a 5 am departure.)

By the end of the second day, 3 hunters had gotten elk. In addition, two hunters had their horses spook, dragging one of them from a stirrup for a ways (with no major injury), but the other was thrown while at full speed and was in terrible pain that evening. He later visited a hospital and found that he had numerous broken ribs. He decided not to do any more hunting during this trip.

Also on the second day, after making our way to a ridge overlooking a big valley, our guide pointed out a herd of elk that were in the Park, while my son glassed and found a herd of cows that were outside the Part on the other side of the valley. My son pointed out those elk to our guide and when he glassed them, he spotted a nice 6X7 bull bedded in some tall grass. I had given my son dibs on the first shootable elk we would see, so he and the guide proceeded to do a “sneak” on the bull. Afterward my son said the sneak was along a very steep slope, maybe 60 degrees, where the two of them crawled and crabbed a hundred yards or more to where they could line up a shot. My son had to take almost a modified Creedmore shooting position (rifle almost paralleling his right leg) because the shooting spot did not accommodate belly-prone or sitting facing down the slope. The guide ranged the elk at approximately 330 yards and my son took the shot. The elk immediately stood up and took a step forward, which positioned him behind a tree. A minute later, the elk stepped out from behind the tree and began a brisk walk toward the Park while simultaneously my son began firing at the moving elk target which was quickly distancing himself from my son. From initial shot to last shot the elk had traveled almost 600 yards. The last bullet hit, tagging the elk when he was at about 500 yards. The bull disappeared into a small patch of trees at that point. All totaled, there were at least 5 hits. (Note: My son was shooting full patch loads of Barnes TSX 165s from his 30-06 with Leupold 2.5-8 scope.)

The guide watched and noted the hits and the reaction of the bull. Without telling my son much, the guide said the bull was gut shot along with the other hits. The guide then sat down to watch and see if the bull would rise and continue moving toward the Park. He sat watching for two hours, and the bull did not reappear, so the guide then got up and told us "if we approached the bull it could get up and head into the Park", so he was going to leave it undisturbed till next day. As a result, it became my turn to hunt.
We hunted till almost dark but didn’t see anything, then headed back to camp. For me, I had reservations about not following up on a wounded animal, but bowed to the expertise of our guide. At camp, Robert and the guide discussed the situation and Robert’s decision was that next morning the guide would take us, along with two pack mules, and find the elk if possible. The guide brought a GPS to cross check location and assure that my son’s elk was not in the Park.

That next morning, we headed out at 5 am, and arrived at our original ridge overlook around 9 am. The guide told me to sit tight and watch some nearby grassy hillsides and if a shootable elk materialized to make my own shoot-no-shoot decision. In the meantime, the guide and my son began a 1=1/2 hour trek down into the valley, through blow-downs that were on 45 degree slopes, along 15 inch wide game trails along rocks and shale, etc. They eventually found the elk. It was obvious that when it had gone behind the distant trees, it had expired and slid down a major slope till its antlers got caught in a tree. The elk was a mature 6 X 7. My son tagged the elk and the guide took several pictures. The guide then proceeded to gut the elk, which by now had been laying there since 10 am the previous day. Not a good thing since the daytime temperatures were up in the 60s. As the gutting progressed, my son pointed out that the elk was not gut shot, evidenced by a clean unpunctured internal cavity. Upon close examination, two bullet holes were seen high in the chest (top of lungs about 2 inches apart), another in the neck, and a 4th in a hind quarter, and a 5th one that had totally broken a front leg. The hit when the elk was bedded wasn't evident.

The elk was loaded on the mules and packed out. The guide and my son picked me up at about 3 pm and with the elk loaded on the mules, we headed back to camp, again in unseasonably warm temperatures. I was told I was hunting as we were traveling back to camp. Without comment, I felt that the recovery efforts cost me a full hunting day.
The next day, while my son and I were out with the guide, the elk was assessed and found to be totally rotten and the only recoverable was the antler set. (The rotted meat was brought into the woods for nourishment of whatever found it, so that it would not be totally wasted.)
Below is the only part of my son's elk that we got to bring home.

I continued to hunt with the guide through the last day that we had planned. My son and friend, the other two of our hunt party needed to return to work, so as a group we elected to all leave together, and not hunt the last couple of available days offered by Triangle-X. By the way, if I had stayed to hunt those last days, other than staff I would have been the only hunter in camp, since everyone else had left by then.

Late during the afternoon of that next to last hunting day, the guide had taken us up an unbelievably steep slope to a mountain top area. Just as we crested the top, the guide spotted an elk staring at us through the trees. We immediately dismounted and worked our way to a cluster of trees where the guide sat me down and pointed to two elk off in the distance. One was big and the other much less so, but shootable. I asked for a range reading and the guide told me he couldn’t get one, maybe due to sun position low behind the elk. As he commented, the bigger elk disappeared and he said if I wanted an elk, the smaller was legal. The guide made a rudimentary guess of 400 yards range, I aimed half way up the height if it's antlers and mistakenly took a shot with my 375 H&H. It was a low miss and the dirt being kicked up below the elk made that obvious. That smaller elk then disappeared before a second shot could be taken. The guide said the windage was perfect. We later went to where the elk was standing (On the far rim of the mountain top) and ranged back to the tree where I had taken the shot. It measured very close to 500 yards. I regret taking the shot, since afterward I realized that a follow-up wouldn’t have been possible and a possibly wounded elk would likely have disappeared. I won’t do that again. I had also made another mistake. Early in the hunt, when my group asked what scope magnification should we set, we were told lowest possible and not more than 3. Later after hearing that almost all shots were from beyond 300 yards, I realized that I should have turned up the magnification on my scope to 5X or 6X.

At that point the guide decided we would hunt as we worked our way back to camp. On the way, he spotted a group of elk on a hillside, so we did a stalk, but the elk had taken refuge in some trees and we didn’t see them again before darkness overtook us.

We had been hunting the same area all week, then after all 6 other hunters had tagged out, we could hunt one of the other three areas. On the evening prior to the last day we were told we could hunt one of the other areas that was West of where we had been hunting. Again we headed out at 5 am, and arrived at the original hunting area around 7 am. We worked our way up and down and around, with one elk bugling back at us a few times but he never materialized from the timber. From there the guide proceeded to take us through a treacherous network of dead tree blowdowns. At one place, the guide‘s horse couldn’t step over a cluster of trees, so he jumped them. That’s when I experienced “jumping” a horse for the first time ever. Quite an eye opening experience. My horse liked it so much, he proceeded to jump a number of logs that the guide’s horse stepped over. I began to get to enjoy the jumping just a little. We later worked our way up the steepest slope we had seen. It became obvious that our horses were being stressed by the climbing, since in several spots they had to stop. All three horses were huffing and puffing like hundred year old steam engines! When we reached the top, the guide promptly informed us that he saw no signs of elk, so we would proceed down the far side to some meadows that had been productive for the other hunters in our camp, a few days before. That downslope was again more steep than any slope we had traversed during the prior days. If I had taken time to think about that, I might have been apprehensive.

The last hunting day turned out to be short, and we got back to camp before dark for the first time. Each prior hunting day we had arrived back at camp somewhere between 8 pm and a bit later. One day after 9 pm. That last day back at camp, the weather was so warm that my son put on shorts and a t-shirt and got some sunburn.

Next day, the pack-out day, my son and I were the only hunters left in camp, as our 3rd had decided to head to the ranch house on a prior day. (He didn’t make it. A few hundred yards from the tents, his horse spooked and toppled him badly. He was helicopter lifted to a hospital where he was found to have a broken his scapula (Shoulder blade) in 8 places and also had a radial break of one spine vertebra.) Our ride out was much more relaxing than the ride in, since my horse kept up and didn’t try to trot.

When we got back to the trail head, all was unloaded and we again hopped into the van for a ride back to the ranch, where we got cleaned up and pampered with great food and good conversation.

Summary: The experience was truly worthwhile. Of our group of 3, only one elk came home with us. I sincerely wish we had come home with the two elk our party had shot. Additionally, our elk was delivered to the local meat processor. Request was for loin and backstrap steaks and the balance as burger meat (No added suet). The processor fee was somewhat expensive, over $470 for that one animal.

sounds like an exciting adventure, just glad your group made it home in one piece.

although not versed in western hunting, on one hand i'm surprised there are not more stories of wrecks on horseback, but i'm also surprised after looking at the Triangle-X website that they didn't have a better string of horses.

Granted, horses are the most dangerous form of transportation per mile. I have been on many horse hunts in Wy, Co. I think this outfitter needs to upgrade his string to being more "Bombproof". More rodeos than you'd expect.

One of the wranglers at Triangle-X said they have about 60 horses. Our guide said that they ride many of them and select the best as guide horses.
Of our 7 hunters, there were 6 horse incidents that I know about. Injuries for 2 hunters were severe enough that those two hunters had to go to the hospital. One of those, as mentioned needed to be helicoptered out. One other lucky hunter got his boot caught in a stirrup when he was thrown from his spooked horse, but wasn't severley injured.
Surprisingly, one of the guides tried to convince the group that previously there had never been a serious horse related accident. We all doubted that statement.

On my horse back hunt to B.C. I rode a horse that would not keep pace, wanted to take a bite off of every plant he walked buy and stopped to drink at every stream. I was aggravated with him by the third day I asked the guide how much I would have to pay if I shot him between his eyes.

What it came down too. They put clients on that horse because he is sure footed and even tempered. Sound like they need better horses to me too.

Bob;

My husband and I hunted with Triangle X back in the 80's and I laughed to hard at your report. You couldn't have described it better.

On our first hunt with them we had several incidents: 1. When they came to get out gear to load on pack animals they backed into our pick up truck. 2. After riding all day to get to camp, the other hunter's horse kicked my husband's horse and broke the stock off his rifle. 3. Our guide lost our horses after we tied them and did a long stalk. These were just a few. But we went back and hunted with them 2 more times.

We were extremely green hunters back them, but experienced riders. So I loved the riding part, but it was super dangerous for a novice. My husband's horse slipped going up a steep, icy trail and fell over on him, we were lucky no one was hurt.

I am going to try to attach some old photos for you.

[/IMG]

Thaks Darin.
I guess that the Turner family has their way of running a hunt and perhaps selecting docile horses for people that have not been riding for a long while isn't in their book.
Of the 7 hunters, 5 shot elk.
I was there on a father-son hunt, so since my son needed to leave before all the hunt days were used, I decided that staying on alone wasn't going to add any enjoyment, so I departed early also.

Bob,

We so enjoyed your report!

Glad you survived! In fact, glad we all survived. This type of hunt is definitely not for everyone!

Best regards, Darin

Bob,

Do you have any photos?

Regards, Darin

I only got a few photos before my Android battery was depleted. My son used his Apple phone after that and got lots of great photos. I am waiting for him to share those.
I just got two pics from my son.
They are now inserted into the initial posting.

Great pics, Bob. Love to see the others when they are available.

Regards, Darin

What a trip! Thanks for sharing the story.

When I was checking into a cow elk hunt in WY years ago the outfitter said that the hunt involved riding horses. I told him "Thanks, but no thanks. I haven't been trained or qualified to operate one of those."

Thank you for confirming the wisdom of that decision.

It's unfortunate that the meat rotted because it was left out so long. I would have been very upset over that.

Neat back country hunt! Thanks for sharing..

Great report.

Getting drug by a horse is pretty serious. If your foot is caught in the stirrup you have to roll onto your belly to get your foot out. Not a good option when hunting but a boot your foot will come out easy really helps in that situation. Sounds like those horses aren't getting enough miles or are outright spoiled.

well, at least i learned who to avoid. congratulations on getting home in 1 piece. i made 2 different 10 day horseback hunts in northern BC and we had NO stock problems( other than a grizzly that ran the hobbled horses into the next drainage 1 night).

JDollar,
On a past hunt with Colorado High Outfitters, my son and I and the other hunters had no problems with their horses. Did plenty of riding up down, and through mountainous terrain. Brought home two elk from that hunt.

Great hunt report. I guide for a different outfit that is somewhat close to Turners, different trailhead. I've ridden by their camp once in the summer. I've met Robert once, but not in a manner that had anything to do with outfitting.

If I could offer a little insight into a few of your comments. Please don't take these as any form of criticism.

You'll see the lazy horse that walks slow and then trots to keep up frequently. Dude horses should be very tame and docile and not spooky. Those qualities often come with some laziness. It also takes a fair amount of riding experience to get a horse to walk fast, if they are not a fast walker naturally. I don't know how to avoid this totally for clients. A good horse man could retrain him, but the second you put on a green rider it is all over.

Getting a left foot caught in the stirrup while getting off happens quite a bit too, but it is fairly easy to avoid IF a client is instructed and reminded to all but totally pull that foot out before swinging over the right leg. Good stirrups help too.

Horse wrecks happen even with very gentle and old horses. That isn't meant to say that maybe they needed better horses though.

On 2x1 hunts it is common to "lose" a day on recovery efforts. As a guide I try to stress avoiding 2x1 hunts and that is one reason. Another is shooting opportunity. I would NEVER book a 2x1 hunt unless being together was the main goal like with my kid as you did. But if getting a bull was top priority, no way. The cost usually isn't that much more when compare to what you have in the trip.

These are great points to ask potential outfitters about. Another big one is who your guide will be. Not really his name, but experience, knowledge etc. I would make this a priority. And I would want a solid answer.

I would call not following up on your son's elk a big mistake. Park or not.

Thanks Ralphie,
I believe that while at the top of one of the mountains, we had your camp pointed out to us, adjascent and somewhat West of where we were hunting.
Yes this hunt was with my son, so 1 on 1 wasn't considered.
I agree about the lazy horses.
As to the guide, we were told that this was the second season that Triangle-X had hired him. He wasn't a novice and told us he had experience guding in Colorado and two other states before joining the Turners. I guessed he was at least 30 years old. From what we saw, he was very capable at spotting wildlife. He also seemed to be moderately knowledgable of the area he was assigned, although I did have some concern that we kept going to the same location each morning, then riding around looking for other locations with meadows which might have elk.
One downside for my son and I was that all of the other hunters had been previous clients, and therefore were given the better (priority) hunting areas and the preferred and more successful guides.

Spent my whole life with horses, hunted horseback more than any other way..I would suggest that anyone going on a horse hunt should learn to ride first of all, and I mean lean well enough that such things as described don't happen but if they do know how to prevent disaster...I see too many huge boots worn by hunters when a more narrow waterproof boot would have been a better option. I see saddle scabbards hanging precariously off the horse and riders that fall off when they should not have..so for your own safety I would suggest a non horse hunt or perhaps taking lessons and then ride more often..So many hunts have been ruined from a lack of taking care of the obvious before the hunt begins, and this applies to guides as well as clients. BTW a foot should be all the way in a stirrup and the stirrup should be large enough to accomdate the foot or smaller boots.

Hunting next to the park boundry is a bummer and does create a problem all its own I would imagine. One wonders what caliber your son was using and your post related to the use of "full patch bullets" in which case that is illegal and not a elk killing bullet by any means, but I think you probably misused the term for tha Barnes X bullets that are not "full patch" but good expanding bullets..

First and foremost I would have tried to recover the elk and not left it overnight, lost in the park or lost from spoilage is a push IMO.

This sort of hunting and shooting at those ranges is IMO a recipe for failure, but if its needed then the use of a 300 Win. mag or .338 would be my choice, you never mentioned the caliber of gun your son used..

Not being critical, just Monday morning quarter backing but in a suggestive way to lessen such experiences on future hunts..Sounds like a good outfit, but these days guides are young, mostly fresh out of guide schools, or just some cowboy trying to make a living, it can be problematic.

I would like to clarify. Do I understand that you should have your foot all the way in the stirrup? I grew up around showing riding horses, etc. I have taken quite a few horse hunts. I always have stirrup adjusted to where standing up I'm just above saddle and I'm on the ball of my feet. I never put my foot in stirrup past the ball of my foot. The reason being to avoid getting your foot caught.

if your riding on the ball of your feet with a hard stopping horse you'll get the fulcrum affect and be wrapped around it's neck. Like Mr. Atkinson said, foot all the way in and ride off your seat. I only differ in that I like oxbows so my foot will not come out but I usually ride in riding boots- cowboy boots.

I guess this is where I diverge. I know how I'm going to ride in the stirrups and my feet will never be past the ball of foot in stirrup,
As far as a hard stopping horse, I lean back. I had a horse go off the side of a mountain in WY about 10 years ago and if my foot was past my ball I would of had a greater risk of hanging in stirrup. Let me also clarify,I'm not sitting in saddle with a lot of pressure on my feet. Only if I fully extend my legs I would be above saddle a few inches.

The rifle used by my son was a pre-64 Winchester model 70 in 30-06.
The term I used, full patch load to me means maximum velocity with the powder and bullet that was selected. In his case, velocity was 2750 with the Barnes 165s.
I had recommended he take his 375 Ruger, but his friend was taking a 270 so he felt that he would ask the outfiitter about caliber. That caused him to ask the outfitter if the 30-06 was adrquate. He was told Yes. Afterward, the outfitter said he guessed the 30-06 wasn't enough gun.
As to distance, the range at which he took his first shot was well within his abilities and since his last shot was at apporximatly 500 yards and was a hit, I don't think distance was a factor. From comments by the other hunters that got elk, most shots were beyond 300 yards.

RAR60,
I am ranch raised, I team rope about 3 times a week and compete quite a bit. I roped calves all my life competively, both amateur and professionally..I have guided and hunted horseback..Horses are my life, hunting and shooting is secondary and that's a little known fact on the internet. Been at it for 81 years now, started with I was 18 months and in my grampa's lap napping! Take notice of Bobs and his sons boots as opposed to the guides boots..The Trinagle X ranch should make clients aware of proper gear, its natural to most to wear hunting boots, especially in cold weather, but few outfits address this issue and that's a shame, its dangerous and ruins high dollar hunts.

Based on that I have never hung up in a stirrup, I wear foot gear that prevents that to start with and I use stirrups that are large enough not to hang up and one needs to be in the center of his horse at all times, thus in control at all times, those who only use the ball of their foot are simply not horsemen, and that's not a sin, but its not proper horsemanship. JUst my take on the subject.

Bob,
IMHO and as a rule, a good shot shooting at long range will usually hit the animal, but where is the question? A bad shot will just miss and no harm done..300 yards is a max range for shooting elk with a 30-06 or any caliber IMO, but once hit you just as well keep shooting as your son did, A 30-06 is a good elk rifle IMO, but at extended ranges a .338 is a better choice IMO..

As to a full metal jacket, or full patch bullet your term is simply incorrect, what you describe is a solid, and has nothing to do with the load, its a bullet only description, end of story..A Barnes X is a monolithic Hollow Point bullet and an excellent choice. Im not being critical, just offering some excellent advise on bullet and loading knowledge.

Your guide was wrong, He should have recovered that elk. I would have, even if he went into the park rather than left him wounded, then if the park caught me I would test the law in court and betcha I'd win. You simply don't walk away from wounded game, especially in hot weather, any guide knows how quickly and elk will spoil unless you get it quartered and the wind pipe out pronto...Not your blame, its a bad guide decision, and the circumstances determined to a good guide that the elk was down and out in that it did not re-appear from the brush it went in..had he done so your elk would not have spoiled.

Mr Atkinson,
I have no qualms about saying 30-06 is small for a mature elk. I know it will do the job, but a 700 Lb animal can absorb lots of "shock" befoe it goes down. I had told my son just that. As to accuracy, the first shot he took went through from upper left shoulder to lower chest, from an elevated aiming position. The next two follow-up shots took place when the elk stood up and moved out from behind a tree. Those two were 2 inches apart in the upper chest (Top of the lungs). Fourth shot was at around 400 yards and went through the neck and exited. Fifth shot at aproximately 500 yards was through right hind quarter. I doubt that I could have done nearly as well.
On an added note, the outfitter had told us that with 2 on 1, the second hunter had a standing invitation to back up the shooter, once the first shot had been taken. Unfortunately our guide never adopted the outfitters preference and as such didn't give me any indication of the elks location, so I never saw that elk and didn't have a chance to provide a backup shot. The guide did take my son into some brush and with some difficulty helped my son see where the elk was beded, then took him (sneaking) along the hillside to where there was a good downhill streighaway shot at the bedded elk. Later in the hunt, I had a not so good opportunity to take a shot at an elk, and again the guide didn't take time to let my son know that he was setting me up for a shot. After the shot, my son had to ask what was going on, and the guide proceeded to criticize him.

Sounds like your guide was short on experience or brains. Problem today is so many guides are not qualified...Have seen a lot of this in the last 10 or so years, not surprising as guides are hard to find and they don't get paid much with most outfits.

Bob I am not sure exactly what you mean in your last post. If you are saying the guide expected your son to back up your shot after he had already killed his bull. Then you need to be careful. Wyoming does not allow party hunting, once your son filled his tag he can no longer be a shooter, his rifle has to stay in camp.

Bob:
Just a little insight from around 30 yrs hunting elk mostly horseback. We took our own horses that we'd ride year around, our own saddles and scabbards too. The last ten years two of the newer guys in camp were the oldest cowboys. There were two horse accidents that I know of. Son of the older cowboys horse slipped on an icy sidehill much like the one D. showed only very deep snow. His Dad the cowboy said Bud and his horse rolled I think three times, each time the high spot came out of the snow he was still in the saddle. Amazing neither he, horse nor rifle got banged up much. Damned lucky.

The other was way back in 1949 the rancher was in a creek bottom at a real productive crossing just about dark using iron sights. Dad was in the middle of six hunters coming down the trail horseback with pack horses. Noise from the creek kept the rancher from hearing them. All had the old sorry red & black checked coats and same on the horses. Lead horse was a buckskin, same color as elk. The rancher screwed up and shot the horse, just barely missing the riders leg. All hell broke loose of course. No men were hurt somehow. I spent 5 summers with this rancher being his only hired hand starting in '57-62 and hunted there until '76. We discussed this many times. He fully believed at the time he'd killed over 300 elk with that same rifle and it was one of those deals where if you do something long enough sooner or later you'll screw up. He invited everyone there to hunt from his house from then on. That's how we got involved. Two other times horses broke loose due to carelessness by hunters with turning on flashlights right next to tied horses at night coming from hunting, spooking them, and had to walk back several miles to camp. Very good lesson there!

Far as '06's go, that's all most of us used. In the 50's & 60's bullets were sorry compared to what's available today. Many would either blow up or punch on thru and never expand. The camp rules then were nothing lighter than 180gr for elk. In the summer (rancher season) I learned that lesson, he shot one in the top of shoulders face on from above and missed the spine, it ran past me about 25 feet and I hit it on the point of the shoulder with a 150gr. It just made a big bubble and pulverized the bone half inch deep, 6" dia. Bull went down soon after and I blew it's head apart with another 150. We believed his bullet cut into the lungs and the bull would have died soon without all the shooting and noise to draw attention. Nothing came of it though.

I went to a .300Win with 180s shortly after that until I hit a cow just right at 200yds and the C/L blew up on the ribs. Since then I've gone to 200gr Sierra Game Kings, so far I've not had a shot. What's puzzling about this is I loaded 300 rounds from the same batch of 500 bullets and couple jugs of powder as out of 10 of us in camp 7 shot .300Win's. There's been more than 60 elk shot with these loads without another problem. At least ten within 50yds and three within 50 feet. No other reason for that one bullet to blow up on the ribs other than just a bad bullet. It didn't even get into the near lung.


Sure looks like my hunting days may be over with health problems.
We also almost never took a shot at elk over 400yds and ALWAYS with a rest. Most were 50-300yds. We only hunted before daylight til around 9-10 and the last 3-4 hrs in the evenings. Elk those days fed calmly out in the meadows. Nothing like now when they hit open ground they're on a dead run til they get to heavy timber again even if it's miles across.

That not following up on your son's bull was a total screwup by the guide, he should be all but fired for that and if he'd given backtalk he would have been on the spot.

Far as steep hill sides and kissing branches, hey thats all part of elk country.

Ray is right about the boots, that's the reason cowboy/riding boots have high heels! But, when riding in hunting boots I was always taught to not shove them past the balls of my feet. Never had a problem so I feel that was good advice. Dad always said I rode like a sack of s--t and never made much of a rider though I did a lot of it for 35 yrs. I also learned that I bounced when hitting the ground too. I was never a bronc rider, usually about the 3-4th jump I was off.

Last poster I think was Todd. In bear country especially grizz, that's damned stupid to leave a gun in camp. Everyone goes with a loaded rifle whether hunting or not. Yes, you're right about no party shooting and you will get fined if caught doing it as it should be.

Too bad about the meat spoiling that was a dandy bull. In warm weather that can sure happen. My first bull was nearly spoiled. Shot and made it up the hill into the timber, by the time we got there it was too dark to see the ground and no lights. We were there at daylight the next morning and he was on his back with all four feet in the air about 50yds in the timber faced toward where we had been coming in from. Cold temps that night saved that one. Most times we'd gut evening shot game and packed out the next morning and never had a problem.

Hope I haven't p'd many off with this.
George

I know a lot of you know me for advocating medium and big bores but the 30-06 is absolutely adequate for elk, even at 500 yards. It's a matter of understanding your limitations. Obviously at 500 there isn't a lot of "shock" going on but the cartridge is effective. I always hate agreeing with Ray but the 338 makes a great elk rifle, or 340wby I doubt the outcome would be much different though.

Georgeld,

Your right, I forgot about the griz angle. I am used to carrying a large caliber handgun and I forget that not everyone does that.

Todd:
Since I was about 15 I've always worn a revolver. For a longtime just a .30 Carbine Blackhawk, amazingly it WILL pulverize an elk head with a finish up shot. Til I had a bull and two cows just about run over me when the rifle was too far out of reach and that wasn't gun enough and I knew it so not a shot taken. The next year I took an old retired sheriffs advice and got a .45 Colt in the same gun. I'm in the middle of casting a bucket full of 330gr Hammerheads for it right now. I've practiced enough I'm confident at 100yds now. IF I can just get my health back where I can go again. Ray has ten yrs on me and good health yet. Yes I half envy him. Long as he don't find out!!

Thanks for your reply,
George

All great comments.
With the excellent insights and recommendations, I believe this thread can be helpful to some future elk hunters.

Bob:
That's the whole point of making these discussions public, right?
Fully agree with you there.

George

About any caliber is an elk rifle, but only if you know your and its capability..I shot my first 4 or 5 elk with a 25-35 Win. SRC and all one shot kills and no elk went further than 50 or so yards best I recall...I never shot over 100 yards with that gun..My next elk rifle was a 250-3000 and I shot lots of elk with it using factory Rem Corelokts and WW Silvertips, 100 gr. or 117 gr. Corelokts..longest shot was almost 200 yards or so, both calibers worked just fine..I also used a 30-30 back then. Our whole family hunted Colorado every year, the guns back then were mostly 30-30s, 300 Savage, a 30-40 Krag, 25-35s and 250s..Thats what everybody hunted with back then, and successfully..

Today my family useds 308, 30-06, 270, 7 mags, 300 mags, and the .338 Win. for the most part. nothing else has changed other than calibers, still pack in hunt with horses...Last couple of years, I have been hunting Alfalfa fields, lowland draws, passing bulls, and shooting cows for meat.

Today I use a .308 99 Savage when hunting horseback in timber, and a .338 in and around the open country of Idaho or around Walzenburg Colorado where shots can be long..My big cow elk this year was a lasered 349 yards, the 210 .338 Nosler partition put her down within 25 yards of the hit..My doc says only 6 oz of beef a week, if that, but elk, deer, and bison is OK for the ticker, so I am officially a subsistence hunters these days. Suits me fine.

Lots of things have changed, and will for each of you as you age, pack trips turn into endurance testing, and I got to where I was cooking more, cleaning up camp, and hunting less! This year I sat on a Alfalfa field, watched a Lion follow a Monster Whitetail buck the length of that field, and that was worth the trip, but did get my cow as usual..

Ray:
Where around Walsenburg?
George

I hunt on Ross McKennas ranch, he is an old Alpine Texas team roper, and Ive known his dad for years..I also hunt with Gene Uebler who has a lot of farm land and a dairy there..The McKenna ranch is 88,000 acres that starts at the city limits I think on Hiway 10 to LaJunta..I like to shoot my yearly cow there, but would shoot a bull if he was big enough to scare me, but usually pass on bulls. Good place to hunt early in the season,not so good past mid Nov. Sure saw some huge whitetail and Mule deer last year.