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| One of Us |
Keeping animals away from water so as to be able to take them in daylight is disgusting and unfair chase as I see it. As hot and dry as it is out west right now this seems cruel. | |||
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One of Us |
Here in New Mexico it is legal for an outfitter to fly over the unit up to a few days before the start of the season. Complete bullshit! | |||
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| One of Us |
I am asking bc o do not know. Is it an allegation that the Jimmy John Governor Elk was taken through the manipulation of water through data learned from trail cameras? | |||
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One of Us |
No, that wasn’t an issue on that hunt. Somebody posted a video link previously that may explain it. One guy had been watching the bull for a few years via camera and the. Other guys found it with a camera too. The video spells it out | |||
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| One of Us |
High desert public lands with minimal water is a different story. Some of our waters are the only one for 1.5 miles or more. | |||
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| One of Us |
So they still had to get in the bull, play the wind, and get lucky. I really do not see the issue with cameras and that bull. I do see an ethic issue if Double J sat at home and only went in after being told we found him on the camera, he is right here, right now, but that is a personal thing and not a place for regulation. Folks know I have no problem with regulation. | |||
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| One of Us |
How do people live with themselves when they basically buy a trophy animal, meaning it was zero challenge in any way, shape or form? To each their own I guess but it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd associate with that kind of person. Game cams don't assure you of killing anything but they sure do raise the odds of killing a specific animal. _________________________ Liberalism is a mental disorder. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, according to the video he had a team of over 20 guides watching the bull, and then shot it from another ridge at 1015 yards. That's not a typo. He's heard asking a guide if he can have another bullet as the elk isn't dead, and is told not to shoot again because he could hit the antlers. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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| One of Us |
Condemnation! I just do not seek the nexus between that hunt, and the need to ban trail cameras which has been implied, or at least inferred by me, in this thread. | |||
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| One of Us |
To a lot of people in AZ the trophy madness and aggressive armies of guides and helpers basically making hunting a less than desirable experience ( ask me about my antelope and sheep hunts) I am all for this ban unfortunately. AZ has gotten pretty bad with the elk deer sheep and antelope hunts. That happens when you produce the big ones but money buys the armies out all year scouting and illegal road closures and bullying. And fighting over animals. No thanks White Mountains Arizona | |||
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One of Us |
Good on AZ for joining the club to get rid of these things. We conduct electronic surveillance on terrorists, not animals we seek to "hunt". They do the work while you sit on your butt getting pictures every time a deer, elk, whatever walks past your stand. Go out and look for them yourself! I will freely admit I bought a trail cam some years ago, never took it into the woods, and instead used it to see what the dog does in the house while we're away. Spoiler alert - it's nothing.  _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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| One of Us |
Where do you draw the line? Just because someone has more resources doesn’t make them right or wrong. 20 soldiers or 20 cameras?? I have been fortunate to go on several “once-in-a-lifetime” bison hunts and we spread out and scout and at the end of the day we report what we find back to the hunter. This is a very common practice, especially for trophy hunts. Just because you are sitting in the comfort of your home in a different state, while your guide spots the Spider Bull, and you zoom down in your G5 and smack it, doesn’t make it right or wrong. Its just the resources that you have at your disposal. Hell back in the day, we always knew when the elk hunt started, by all the helicopters flying around chalk creek. | |||
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one of us |
I can't believe I'm the only one frustrated that there was no difference in the law between public and private land. I can't be the only one using trail cameras on private hunting property to help keep track of poachers, their loose dogs and illegal growers. Rights that are lost don't come back. That's a slippery slope if you're calling trail cameras a significant advantage over game that needs to be banned in all cases across an entire state. Seems like you're jumping on the "cancel culture" wagon with the anti's. Are you going to be fine with it when they ban rangefinders, binculars, rifle scopes, rifled barrels, smokeless powder, archery releases, spotting scopes, quality hiking boots, lightweight rifles, centerfire cartridges, etc.???? Any of those advancements provide a lot more advantage to help take game than trail cameras. | |||
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| One of Us |
You can still use trail cameras in Arizona for any of these things you mentioned, on public or private. You can even set them up to get pictures of wildlife. You just can’t use that information to hunt with or assist others that are hunting | |||
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| One of Us |
How does banning trail cameras stop a guy from hiring an army of guides scouring to locate animal and call up the hunter? Who still has to get there. This ban does not stop the evil you are preaching against or want to stop. I do see the nexus of using trail camera data to manipulate water. However, it would be better to criminalize and punish the water manipulation and not ban cameras from my point of view. However, I acknowledge the nexus. The Double JJ army of guides covering the Unit does not have a rational connection to this ban. | |||
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| One of Us |
They (outfitters and hunters)find,,scout, follow, name catalogue and claim specific animals through the use of trail cams 24/7/365 in Arizona. Without trailcams you would not be able to find sell and market the truly large trophy animals with such ease. People with money won’t pay armies of people to “possibly” find a Boone and crocket elk or sheep(or world record)Outfitters will definitely have to work harder. With out the bull on camera for years and size all but guaranteed do you think JJ would pay what he did for an elk tag ? I don’t think so. to us in these states it very much is an issue. Will it solve the whole problem? No but it’s a step in the right direction. And water in western states is an issue and this is one of the main listed reasons for the ban. With an army you can probably find a decent animal with a governors tag and enough money but many outfits market specific animals they track on camera for years at a time. I see it advertised all the time. Back to sitting on a hillside for days or weeks glassing in AZ. many are glad it happened. I’m sure some will still have their camera out anyways too much money involved in these hunts. In the JJ hunt the bull was found on camera by 2 parties one of them years earlier. But the guy with more money and the army claimed it and shoved the other guy out.(outfitter actually). Maybe it would of happened anyways but without cameras set up all over the forest they probably never would of found the Bull in the first place barring some miracle. I found that hunt repulsive and nothing I would want to be a part of. But that’s me. White Mountains Arizona | |||
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One of Us |
+1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Uhhh....private land, manage the LAND any way you want to. Game animals (not livestock) on the other hand, which do not belong to any individual land owner, not so much. Just because you put out a feeder or bait or a salt lick or a camera or plant food crops or build fences in an attempt to privatize public property does not give you ownership of a collectively owned public resource any more than putting up a no trespassing sign gives you ownership of BLM or National Forest land or a National Park. This topic has been beaten to death here. The animals aren't yours to 'manage' unless you bought them. That's the entire reason why the state can regulate seasons, methods, limits, etc. I mean, does ANYONE really think a land owner should be able to do whatever they want on their land without regard to limits or laws or seasons? I've got a bunch of land, and while it would be fun for me in the short term, know it would be a disaster. I'd love to hear other opinions to educate me on this. DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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One of Us |
I agree 100%. The animals may belong to the state, but while they are on my land, I'll damn well monitor them any way I desire. You can't stop me from putting up cameras outside my house for security and you can't stop me from putting up cameras on my land. If a deer, hog, cow, turkey, illegal alien, chupacabra, bigfoot, whatever, walks by my camera on my private land, I've got a right to get a photo of it. It's a very slippery slope when the government starts telling you what you can and can't do on your own private land. Game laws such as off take limits and seasons, no problem whatsoever. It's the state's resource and as such, the state can dictate what's best for the herd. The state can dictate by what means deer can be taken, ie weapon type and when. Again, got no problem with that. But when the state starts telling me I can't place a camera on my own land, regardless of whether or not I'm using it to monitor deer, YEP, big problem with that!! Fortunately, we don't have that type of problem in Texas!! Ban cameras on public land? Fine. Ban them on my own private land? Pound sand comrade! | |||
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| One of Us |
Amen Brother! Bob’s post made absolutely no sense to me. It was like he is addicted to killing everything he sees on camera. I actually agree with no cams on public land. Private land is a different story! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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one of us |
None of that is banned. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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| One of Us |
Let's keep it in context. If I want to shoot a deer I've captured on my trail camera on my own private land, as long as I do so within the prescribed game season, I'm going to do it! Again, thank god we don't have this type of government overreach in Texas. | |||
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| one of us |
I kept it in the context of the passage I cited. You just changed the context. And yes, that would be banned here. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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| One of Us |
You cited a portion of my comments, making it appear out of context. In the full statement, I also said "But when the state starts telling me I can't place a camera on my own land, regardless of whether or not I'm using it to monitor deer, YEP, big problem with that!!", meaning if I capture a photo of a nice deer on MY land that I want to shoot when deer season rolls around, I'm going to do so. I'll go a step further and say, I use game cameras all year long on my deer leases, including during the season. It's perfectly legal here and we like it that way. I'll continue doing it. I'll also go so far as to say that in the years I've been using cameras, I've actually never been able to take one of the trophy bucks I've caught photos of. Just because you have a photo, regardless of what those not from Texas think, it's never as easy as it sounds. Again, AZ is your state, so vote to do what you want out there. Just like in our state of Texas here, we fight every time the government attempts to overreach into our private lives. We win some, we loose some. For the state to tell me I can't place a camera on my own private land with the intent of shooting a deer I've located, again, on my OWN LAND, again I'll say, pound sand with that communist attitude of telling private citizens what they can do with their own land. Public lands, completely different story. That land belongs to all the residents. Private land, different story altogether. Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you Tony because I've read your comments over the years and I usually agree with you and think you're a good guy. But encroachment on private property rights is one of the main leftist ideologies we need to fight today. I'll leave the last word to you. | |||
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| one of us |
In adddition to banned cams, it's also illegal to use bait (other than salt), poison, automatic firearms, traps & snares for the "taking" of game on both public & private land here. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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| One of Us |
But you can use hi cap mags and suppressors while big game hunting and also carry a handgun while bowhunting. White Mountains Arizona | |||
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| One of Us |
Traps and snares legal for trapping furbearing still correct? White Mountains Arizona | |||
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| One of Us |
One difference in Texas is there is mighty few public lands to begin with unlike western states where it is the opposite. I agree on the private land issue as you state.
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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| one of us |
Yes, on private land but not for game and only LIVE cage traps for furbearers on public land. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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| one of us |
Not much of a personnel challenge if your the one buying the service. | |||
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| One of Us |
Uhh...WHERE do you get that out of anything I said? Are you projecting? I don't use cams at all, aerial scouting, etc because I prefer the challenge of hunting, even if that means I come home empty handed, vs shooting, but you do you. Variety is the spice of life. Big parts of hunting's appeal to me is the challenge and discovery of the unexpected vs reducing the sport to a mechanical exercise as so well illustrated by the elk hunt mentioned above. I got a once in a lifetime sheep tag years back where a still current world record came out of. EVERY successful sheep hunter of that unit I talked to flew the area all summer via super cub, either theirs or hired, to find the exact animal they planned to kill. I said screw that, I can read a map, have a reasonable understanding of their behavior, can hike in the 20 mile round trip on glassing trips prior to the season as many times as I want, get in several days early, spot, stalk, etc. I had a great hunt on my terms. Cams to me remove some of the mystery and magic of the HUNTING, vs killing. To each their own. Cheers! Bob DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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