The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Here's a new 338 Win. Mag. bullet development....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Allen, as you know, i'm in th middle of load development for my 338 too, although I think I'm gping to use a softer bullet and higher MV for leopard. Regardless, if I had just one bullet to pick, I thnk it would be the 225 TSX for the 338. I've had great luck with RL-19 are you using IMR 4350 still? jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Allen, you know what I think... use the TSX for Elk and the Accubond's for gophers! | |||
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AD I am glad you got to give the TX a run, it's about all I've used since they came out. I would be all over using it instead of the Accu. The 210 TX is the bullet for me, I use it in my 340 and in my 338/300. For what it is worth I'd go TX and know it'll make things happen, not any question here. Last fall I shot my bull at 520 yds, 140 TX out of my 7 Mashburn Super. The bullet went thru both shoulders and is still going for all I know as it did exit with no problem. The bull simply bounced! Fall b4 I carried my G33/40 in a 270 with the 130 TX. I took my bull right at 509 (if I remember right, would have to look at my notes to be exact. The bull was 1/4 to me, I took it on the point of the front left, it exited out the rear hind. Mr bull took a couple of steps and did and Olga Corbit. I'd say go TX, but that is just me. Not that I have any feelings either way though. I just know that you're a smart fella and would want to go with the smart choice!--sorry but I am kind of full of it as we (Brad and Cole his son just got back from the range, that kid just kicked but! What a joy and a kick to watch! MD | |||
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ps Brad I'd only use the accu for rib shots and not past 200 yds....grins MD | |||
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Mark, I understand the AB's bounce off at 201 yards... particularly from a 308 Win  I'm with you... watching junior shoot was pure entertainment! | |||
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Use the Barnes TSX and make sure there are no other elk standing behing your bull when you shoot. .-------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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My new (to me) Savage 116 in .338 also simply dotes on the 225-grain TSX. With ZERO "load development" or other messing-about, I fired three consecutive three-shot groups of less than one inch from 100 yards. One group was about 3/4" and the other two were UNDER 1/2", and this was with three different charges of RE-19....73, 74, and 75 grains. Accuracy is plainly adequate. It's just a question of performance on impact, now, and from reports such as those on this thread, I'm not very worried. Leaving for Alberta elk and white-tail in 27 days!!!! Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1) | |||
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AD I thought you were going to clear up the accubond issue once and for all. Now you go and change your mind, what give? | |||
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Allen, Good luck on your trip. Glad to hear you gave the TSX a try. In my experience, in terms of both accuracy and terminal performance, nothing beats the TSX or North Forks...and they are both available at reasonable prices! On a large game such as Elk, I would forget the Accubond and take the TSX without a doubt! | |||
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Allen, I'll support your decision either way and I wish you the best of success no matter what. I am also very curious as to how the Accubonds will perform out of a .338 cal.; though you know my opinion of them in .30 cal. Having said that, to be honest with you, if I were going on your hunt, I would leave the Accubonds to gophers and try those 225gr. TSXs!! At least penetration will never come into question, nor any plastic tips sheering off. Best of success!! Cheers, CL | |||
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TSX for sure. I'll be using the same this monday, but out of my 416 Rigby. Yeah, I know its big for elk, but I need to become more familiar with it. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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| <allen day> |
If I had to decide this very day as to which rifle and load I was going to go with, I'd still go with the Accu Bonds and rifle no. 1, the reason being that I know the exactly muzzle velocity and actual drop out to 300 yds. with the AB load out of No. 1, plus accuracy is just as good. I just haven't had time to work with No. 2 and the TSX load other than to shoot it at 100 yds., which doesn't tell me enough of what I need to know. I haven't chronographed the MV, and I haven't shot it at 200 and 300 yds., either. If I can make time, I will do so, then base my decision on those results. At the very least, I should be able to run with the TZX load for my second elk hunt, and surely before next year's Zimbabwe safari. I couldn't think of a much better all-around African plainsgame/cats load than this one. It should blow a hole through from just about any angle, as does Winchester's superb Fail-Safe, which I have used extensively in African, as well as on elk. My old friend, African PH Mark Sullivan, is a huge Barnes-X fan, and he has told me many times that "When you recover an X-bullet from an animal, then examine bullet and the damage it caused, you almost feel sorry for the animal." I have to say, Federal is making the very finest 338 Win. Mag. factory ammo that I have every worked with. Their 210 Nosler, 225 AB, and 225 TSX loads are nearly as accurate as any 338 Win. Mag. handloads I've ever been able to put together, and at least in No. 1, they deliver full velocity as well. Tough 225 gr. TSX and 230 gr. Fail-Safe loads should make most conventional 250 gr. loads semi-obsolete..... AD | ||
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And the load you didn't mention, the 225grn TBBC, shots wonderfully out of my .338. It is not enough to fight for natural land and the west; it is even more important to enjoy it...So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends... - Edward Abbey | |||
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Hey AD when do you do on your first elk hunt? And you once said that you may have to shoot at long range, what kind of range do you want to be prepared to shoot at? Thanks MD | |||
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| <allen day> |
Mark, I have a little time, but not much, especially while trying to put some work to bed before I go. I want to be ready to shoot at 300-400 yds. if necessary.... AD | ||
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Man 300 to 400 isn't very darn far (IMO), I know you've plenty of exeperience to handle that with ease. I'd say clock your load, run it to 400 yds at the range and go team go. You'll have no issues I'd say. Your gun is perking just fine, no worries mate. This you can do in one morn and be on with it. Just my unsolicited 12 pennies-sorry. I am not sure but are you using factory, or home brewed? Gracias MD are you hunting elk with KK? | |||
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Go with the TSX Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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| <allen day> |
After receiving so much credible opinion in favor of going with the TSX, I will to head out to the range on Monday for another go-around with these rifles and loads  .......AD | ||
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good luck AD and don't 4 get your clock... MD | |||
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Allen, I've shot barnes X bullets for years and think the world of them. I've got a TSX load developed for my New Leeper 7 Mag and no other bullet will grace it's bore from now on. Ever. Despite popular armchair testimony, the internal damage the X does is devastating, It finds the heart/lungs from darn near any angle, and these new TSX bullets shoot like gangbusters. As much as I'd like to see Accubond results, I'd hunt with the TSX. Chuck | |||
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| <allen day> |
Mark, thanks, and I WILL remember that clock! Chuck, I've never shot anything so far but paper and dirt with Barnes bullets. The only bullet of this type that I have solid experience with is the Winchester Fail-Safe, which I've used extensively, and is likely the single-best bullet I've used to date. The trouble with the Fail-Safe is that not every rifle shoots it well. There have also been occasions where Winchester changed the profile of the F-S and then they wouldn't even shoot in rifles that did well with the older version. But for performance on game, the F-S is outstanding in every way. I've never felt that it was "too hard", either. Even with straight lung shots on deer and similar game they always performed well for me. The TSX should perform just as well, and what impresses me is that so many guys are reporting such fine accuracy across the board with it. Barnes appears to have struck oil with this one...... AD | ||
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D'arcy Echols? Mark Sullivan? Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Echols is a rifle builder and Sullivan is an African Professional hunter. Both are pretty well known in their professions. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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RMiller, I know who they are... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| <allen day> |
Mike, why do you ask about them? What's the point of your question? AD | ||
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Yeah I was wondering the heck is the point also? MD | |||
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Weird... | |||
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Looks like everone is giving up on the Nosler Partition. | |||
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| <allen day> |
No, I'll never give up on the Nosler Partition, this is just a matter of giving another good bullet a solid run. In fact, both of my 338s shoot the Partition really well. Rifle no. 1 shoots the 210 and 250 gr. Partition bullets with superb accuracy, while rifle no. 2 is partial to 225s. Rifle no. 1 won't digest 225 Partitions well at all for some reason. I have a 1/2 MOA 250 gr. Nosler load for no. 1 that gives 2735 fps. and I even had a 400 yd. stadia wire installed in that rifle's 2.5-8X Leupold scope by Premier Reticles that is calculated around that exact load. With the scope zeroed for 200 yds. and the scope at 8X, the primary reticle (center of the Duplex) is exactly on at 200 yds., the top of the lower verticle Duplex post is on at 300, and the stadia is on at 400. This system really works, it's simple, and the single stadia wire doesn't clutter up anything. You only notice it when you need it. Now........here I go to all that work and I'm off using another bullet and another load altogether!  AD | ||
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Allen That is very interesting. How do they go about installing that Stadia wire. I would imagine its some sort of trigonometry formula to determine exactly where to put it based upon where it shoots at another spot coupled with some sort of ballistic program. Or, do you send the whole rifle in and they just keep shooting it with your bullet until they figure out where to put the wire? | |||
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The TSX bullets in anything i've tried them in has been a complete turnaround from the old X bullets. In almost all my rifles the X's were so inconsistent and bad about fouling some barrels, I didn't want to even try them. In everything I've tried so far the TSX's have been exceptional shooters, the most recent being my old Ruger 7x57 which I hunt with more than anything, but is an average 1.25 MOA gun. With the same powder (H414) and 140 TSX's it shoots perfectly triangular 3- shot groups consistently in the .5-.7 range with the largest to date going .940. I haven't used them in .338 yet. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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| <allen day> |
22WRF, you just send them the scope and the actual, chronographed ballistic profile of your load, including the exact bullet you're using. They do the rest. When Premier finishes with a scope, it's better than when it left Leupold's factory. http://www.premierreticles.com AD | ||
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My personal opinion is in favor of the Barnes TSX, But the Accubond will do the job also. The thing I like about Barnes is the fact they they never seem to be too much bullet. On smaller critters they create a great wound channel and do the job without blowing stuff apart, on big critters they create a great wound channel and have outstanding penetration. In my 338-06, I am using the 210 gr TSX's for elk this year. The last two years I used 210gr NP's. But I am getting 125 fps more velocity with the TSX's and tighter groups. I have shot deer & elk with 140gr Barnes X out of my 270 Win and have been completely satisfied with their performance. I have shot deer with 53gr TSX's out of my 22-250 and have been completely satisfied. There is a custom ammo manufactuer located close to here. When developing loads, they start with TSX's, then try Accubonds. I think that is a pretty strong endorsement. That is who talked me into trying the TSX's after I had given up on Barnes. He gave me 10 just to play with. After trying numerous bullets, I have gotten to the point where it is just easier to grab the TSX's when working on hunting loads. They shoot, don't cause fouling problems, and they perform. What more do you need? So, take either rifle combo and bullet. Both will do the job. | |||
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Allen, Didnt you say you have tags for "two" Elk? Why not try them both? Save the accubonds for gophers.. Sheesh!  | |||
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To add to what AD said baout Premier reticles, I've been using them for a long time. I've 2 rifels/scoped and set up to 700 yds. They will want bullet weight BC speed ave temp ave elevation You can have them put in dots or stadia wires. I personally find the wires a bit busy but have a couple of buds using them. Most of the guys I know have them put in the dots. This system when used as intended is incredibly effective! MD | |||
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