Today (Tuesday, 11/23) there was an article in the Washington Post -- The Post is a mostly-leftist, anti-gun, anti-hunting, pro-Kerry paper -- about the Wisconsin shootings. It was entitled "In Deer Country, a Puzzling Shooting Spree," and was written by Peter Slevin and Kari Lydersen of the Post staff. I thought that it was a good and fair article, without anti-hunting bias. The following paragraph appeared in this story. I don't know whether or to what extent it is true, but if true it may help explain what happened.

Rules and etiquette on American hunting passed from generation to generation have proved unfamiliar to many Hmong, who come from Laos, where hunting is a practiced skill. The Lao mountains are among the wildest and least populated areas of the world. There are no regulations about what, where, or when to hunt. Conservation officers and property owners in several states have reported conflicts with the Hmong over their hunting practices, often because they did not understand American traditions. Four years ago, Minnesota's Department of Natural Resources hired a Hmong officer to teach the community about local hunting and fishing rules.

That would be all fine and dandy if he were still hunting in LAOS! He'd need to pass hunter safety to get a hunting license so THERE IS NO EXCUSE! He is a murdering sociopath and needs to be put to a slow painful end for his horrible crime and to discourage similar behavior by anyone else. Simple, huh?

In Wisconsin you do not have to pass hunter safety unless you were born after 1973. The Hmong is 36 so probly born in 1968. Good bet he had no hunter ed.

In Wisconsin, the lack of "hunting knowledge" being passed down from a prior generation that did not exist in this country is a bunch of crap!!! The Wisconsin DNR prints regulations in their native language and they still don't get it. The killer in this case, Vang, has been pinched before for fishing violations (he had 90 fish over the limit).

I am sorry but many Hmong have complete disrespect for private property, bag limits, and the creatures that inhabit this planet. There have been repeated violations in this state for game infractions - many involving a group of Hmong going into an area and slaughtering the hell out of what ever they are hunting - with a "to hell with the bag limits" attitude.

My thoughts are with the victims in this tragedy and their families that are left behind. Vang now has to pay for his crimes.

Id like to see ALL of Vangs hunting and fish violations. His Fish and Game rap sheet. And ALL the violations of all this vietnameze, Homngs or what ever they are,have commited.



Sounds to me like this Vangs hunting and fishing privlages should have been suspended for life. Come on... 90

fish over the limit ! ! ! What else? Did he pay fines? Licences takin away?



Whats his culture have to do with breaking U.S. state

fish and game laws ! He has to obey the law like the rest of us americans . They must read , Know and obey the hunting regulation manuals to hunt and fish. Case closed !

Apparently, he had paid a fine for the fishing bag limit infraction (about $350). Big deal. Acoording to yesterday's local paper, Vang has had several other brushes with the law including threatening his wife with a pistol, disorderly conduct, etc. It just seems difficult to pick out the guys that will snap.

Lets see , threatining his wife with a pistol?



Thats pretty close to felony isnt it , or is it a felony.



If you have a feloney ,you cant own a Fire arm.



This guy sounds like a F***** unstable, wacko, psyopath

I have to agree with GSP7 on this issue. Several issues seem to remain constant with this individual and the Hmong people as well. As to this specific individual, cultural heritage is no excuse for any of his behavior, past or very current past. People who come to a new country do maintain many aspects of their ancestral heritage regardless of where they come from. The important difference becomes when they break our laws and develop a sub-culture that is not harmonious with others. Many times the areas where large numbers of one 'culture' populate (makes sense to want to be with others like you in a new country) are vibrant areas without high crime rates and complete indifference to the laws of the land. Most often it is the exact opposite. We have areas in Atlanta where large Asian populations exist and there are NOT higher crime rates and urban decay and abuse of government programs and disregard for all law enforcement. We also have areas where the exact opposite is the case and you don't want to be in these areas without wearing body-armor and being well armed. The difference is in the desire that a group has to integrate into a society. I have seen both extremes within a 'culture' (typically a race) and the one thing that should be unacceptable to AMERICAN's is the patent disobedience of any group. The white supremecist movements that exist in some parts of this country are a good example. Our Government makes a concerted effort (perhaps not enough so, but....) to persecute these individuals and groups to the extent the law allows. This often does not seem to be the case with certain groups--apparently as is the case with the Hmong people. Our Law enforcement agents seem to throw up their hands when dealing with these people, and it is an absolute fact that these folks consistently use the 'we don't understand english' excuse. This particular fact is bull. I can say from experience that if you visit many other countries, especially asian ones, you are going to have to learn their language to integrate into their society. There are not english menu's in thier restaurants, there are not english directions on their phones, there is not bi-lingual bathroom signage, in short they are not cowtowing to us or other language speaking visitors or immigrants. If you want to be there, then learn the lingo! We make too many concessions in the U.S. to accomodate other language speaking persons. For the love of GOD let us make English our official ONE language that we speak in this country. The bilingual efforts extended, most notably to Hispanics, by the U.S. government is ridiculous. This is more of the liberal mentality. Just because some folks still want to cling to the 'give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses' doesn't mean we should accept them without regard for who they are as individuals, and they should not get exception from any of our laws, and they should be expected to contribute to society, not just leach from it. This guy is a murderer, pure and simple. It is evident from the preliminary information that he absolutely had oppurtunity to leave the area, and that he stalked and killed several of these people. There is no way that it was self defense as several of the victims were unarmed.

By the way Blue, if you read this post, one thing I want to point out is that I believe your post is accurate about a Life Sentence 'case' being less costly than a Death Penalty 'case', but that is out of context. Folks are saying that it is Bull to pay for this guy to be in jail ad-infinadum as opposed to spending .30 cents to shoot him right now. I understand your view that several death penalty recepients have been exonerated by new technology, i.e. DNA testing, but in a case where it is not circumstantial why should an individual such as this not pay the ultimate price. I do wish this was being prosecuted under Texas law, because he would be purged from our planet, and I feel that would be good.

FWIW a few years back when I was in Northern California there was a shootout in Eureka CA involving a hmong guy and another hmong guy who had broken into his home. The home owner was shown on tv with a hand cuff (allegely from the inruder as he was also a security guard)on one of his wrists and he was making a big show of looking very helpless and submisive. The homeowner claimed self defense in the use of an assult rifle to kill the security guard. Further investigation into the incedent found that he "intruder" was over to the home owners house because he helped other hmong to fill out nessisary paperwork (read milk the welfare system) and an argument insued resulting in the homeowner shooting the so-called "intruder". It was petty amazing to see how quickly the homeowner could switch from cold blooded murderer to helpless imigrant at the drop of a hat. KevD

Where and who are the other Hmong's that were with Vang early that morning?

How did Vang get to that piece of property?

Maybe you're confusing the 2001 killing with the current incident.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5103053.html

Blue, you make a good point in not supporting the state to do things it won't sanction it's citizens to do. However I think there are always things a state, or government must do that it's citizens cannot or should not be 'sanctioned' (allowed) to do. Example: the power of comdemnation of property, or the ability to tax and build a road on property taken from it's own citizens. I also wrestle with the moral and religious 'correctness' of the death penalty, the folks at my church think I'm an idiot for generally supporting the death penalty and being pro-choice. (not to open another can of worms) I hear your argument for restorative justice, but I don't really know where I stand on that one, I honestly feel that this world is a better place with certain individuals terminated and gone from this life. I certainly would have pulled the trigger on Adoph Hitler if given the oppurtunity, and I could come up with a lot of others I would put on the list--I don't know if that's right, that's just what I truly feel.

I am interested as to your thoughts on what the trial process will be like in this case.

Did you send that die back to Lyman?
Regards--D.

I did'nt know anything about any earlier incident. There was a piece that said Vang had been hunting with other Hmong in the area. Have'nt seen any articles saying they found his truck or who he went hunting with in that area.

This article about another hunter and Vang indicates Vang was alone and was not wearing hunter orange before the shooting incident.
http://www.kimt.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=KIMT/MGArticle/IMT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779337414&path=

Got to Police Report On Shooting to read the offical Police Report and statements about the shooting. It's a pdf format. Lawdog

Blue, have you read the police report that Lawdog was good enough to post? Absolutely chilling. I agree with LE 270 across the board. Vang is definitely one that I would advocate the death penalty for. JMHO... I'm still curious as to your thoughts on how this trial will proceed.

Let's keep all of the victims friends and families in our thoughts and prayers--an incident like this can crystalize why one should in fact focus on Thanksgiving...............

Regards to all--Don

Blue, in principle I have to agree with you about prisoner safety. In practice, however, the main deterent about prison in NA these days is the fear of 20 years of sodomy or getting killed by another inmate.

3 squares and TV is a pretty good deal to some people.

FWIW,
Canuck

Blue,



I always value your opinions and their wisdom. I also passionately agreed with them much of my life.



I guess that I feel in older years that, too many of the low lifes of the world take advantage of the loopholes that society seems to be blind to in their zeal to be better and more Christian or compassionate. To me, one closes the loopholes.



Dahlmer getting killed in prison, I don't look so much as the failure of the Guards as I do that may God made up his own mind. It was time for Jeffrey to pay the piper.



I sincerely believe we all have a beginning and we all have an end. We have no control over either. However what we do have is the control over what we do between those two points, with what we do with our lives. I also believe we are accountable for those things.



If people who kill, show no mercy on what they have done, yet society has show him mercy with life in prison, then society has done its job.



If that person who killed and showed no mercy to his victims then I find it hard in my heart to have sympathy on them when they are killed and were not shown any mercy as a victim either.



Society can not babysit these guys every second of their lives, just to prove how advanced or compassionate we are as a society. In their crimes they forfeited the right to be part of our society in my opinion.



I do not see the need or do I have the desire to kill. or see people being killed. However it hits a point that it sits in the hands of God.



Dahlmer spending his life in prison or eternity in hell has not impacted society either way. One can regret the outcome, but I also regret the carnage he caused. And some of his victims were black, and Asian etc.



Putting him in prison,society did its part. Him being killed in prison, nature did its part. Dahlmer was in prison until his death anyway. It just came earlier than he or others had planned for it to.



It is a cold way of looking at it, I admit. But his acts were much more colder.



seafire

Blue, Anglo liberals have been spouting that touchy, feely bullshit for 2000 years: "let's rehabilitate the poor misunderstood wretches". So far, it ain't never got off the drawing board.
Its made a number of folks a very good living however. By praying on folks innate goodness in the form of cash donations to help the poor misunderstood wretches and pandering to the frivilous lawsuits that are generated by a prison population with too much time on their hands and not enough rocks to break.