Ah the anticipatory contemplation of the reloading manual for the soon to be purchased new calibre, looking up those velocities and BCs plugging them into good old JBM ballistics and getting fired up about .6" at 300yards!

Then reality - 5 years since I started stalking in this area one shot at 225 (thought it was 200) two at 180 and all the rest 125 or less. Will I ever deliberately shoot at a roe at greater than 200? No. Will I ever take a shot over 150 or so in high wind? No. Have I proven my willingness to pass on long shots? Yes. What is my absolute nightmare? A fallow buck lost in the woods with no blood trail.

So my new 6mm rem is going to be shooting 100gr Hornady round noses. As far as I can see the only practical difference is wind, 2" more drift at 200 and 5" more at 300 which I will never experience.

Is this nuts?

[ 07-02-2002, 18:33: Message edited by: 1894 ]

Nope. I have nothing against round nosed bullets. They look kind of cool and feed like water thru every action. So what if they lose a little performance edge? As you point out, very few shooters will actually be in a hunting situation where that is a real concern.

Go for it!

Round nose bullets have one drawback (quicker loss of velocity due to more air resistance) which results in 3 disadvantages compared to spitzers:

(1) greater drop at a given distance from the muzzle, (2) greater wind drift, and (3) less terminal velocity, which means the target is struck with less momentum and energy.

Even with the bluntest of round noses, you can probably set your sights for a point-blank range of near 200 yards. Additional wind drift will be negligible at 200 yards. And with Roe as your target, the 6mm will have abundant momentum and energy anyway. Therefore, if you want to use the RN's, they should serve you just fine.

Contrary to Pecos' experience, I have run into more feeding problems with RN's than Spitzers, but if your rifle feeds them okay, then that's not a consideration.

Pecos,
I agree 100% with you.

My most succesful largest shot was made to a running wildboar with a round nose at 180/200 yards.

LG

Stone - Certainly the majority of bullets I've shot were spitzer, but as I said, I've never had a feeding problem with round nose. (And very few rifles ever got picky about spitzer for that matter.)

Anyway, I'm curious what rifles and cartridges gave you feeding trouble? I wonder if it could have been an overall length issue rather than the actual bullet design?

NORMALLY, the one thing for sure a round nose bullet has going for it is smooth feeding.

Just curious.

Gents,

I suppose what I'm driving at is that in my opinion the RN is a more reliable expander and killer and that the extra shock of the blunt projectile is worth any slight paper loss of velocity, trajectory and plain energy. Also they seem to be easier to get accurate.

I doubt that any hunter can tell the difference in the field between the trajectory of a Spitzer or roundnose bullet for the most part..

In this day and time of fantastice fail proof bullets, it is somewhat amazing the the Remington Corelokt R. N. is still as dependable as any of them and it's probably 75 years old in design...I have never seen the RN fail to do anything but a perfect mushroom...The spitzer Corelokt will mash up from time to time, but is still a good bullet.

I am a great fan of the RN bullets in heavy weights..That does not mean that I am against spitzer bullets..It does mean that their is a place for everything, and everything has its place.....

I am sure that the .358 Speer 180 gr FN performs far better on whitetails than any other common bullet from 7mm or .30 cal at ranges up to 240 yards. This bullet can be called a round nose as it's meplat is very small at about .190".

Of course diameter may be a factor here. It's not energy as the cartridges are similar.

But I keep buying spitzers for the other calibers and it's hard to find RN bullets.

A friend who has shot his .257 Weatherby in Africa on plains game used the 117 gr RN factory load. He had such good results that he is staying with that load. I shot that rifle at 200 yards from the bench in a strong cross wind on the same target as a group that I shot with my 6mm Int. match rifle. The 117 gr load did drift a couple of inches more but it was a good group and more than adequate for any game shooting. The spread was horizontal.

What about carrying two tested loads in your pocket? One for the woods with RN's and another for long range!

Pecos: I admit to having very limited experience with RN's. The particular feeding problem I recall was with a Lee-Enfield .303. R-P RN's would virtually always jam on the feed ramp, while spitzers would feed perfectly.

I've also had a bit of trouble with an AR-15 variant. Although I haven't used RN's per se, bullets with a less-sharp ogive have tended to catch the feed ramp and push back into the case, while sharp-nosed spitzers feed fine.

I don't expect 1894 to experience any feeding difficulties with his 6mm, but I do point out that the "duller" the point of a bullet, the more likely it is to catch on the feeding ramp.

On the subject of expansion, I believe that it is a bit easier to make a RN expand positively and consistently than it is a spitzer, due mostly to the greater volume of exposed lead and a jacket that starts a bit further back on the bullet.

In fact, the reason that old goats like Ray like RN's is that they usually open up much more quickly and game is more significantly traumatized, thus falling and expiring more quickly; The appearance of the RN tricks Ray into thinking that he shot his game with a heavy, "deep pentrating" punch-though bullet when he actually shot it with something that behaved more like a Ballistic Tip. Just kidding, Ray. Keep on following those blood trails. It gives you more excersize and is lots more sport than just walking up to your quarry where it fell on the spot.

Stone - It's interesting to note that both the rifles that have given you trouble with RN bullets were military types....although I should have thought the 303 wouldn't argue with you.

Still I guess all the military rifle designed and built in the last 75 years were totally intended for spirtzer type bullets.

But I hear what you are saying, now and then someone will run onto a rifle that will gag at the gnat and swallow the camel when it comes to feeding. Usually auto-pistols are the most cranky about their diet.

And I agree RN bullets ALWAYS seem to open up. I think they've definately got a place in hunting, even if they are NOT the most popular shape by far of bullets now. Current trend is clearly towards the long, sleek models and as someone said, RN's are actually getting difficult to find!

I killed a 91/2 Brown Bear with a .300 Win mag shooting 200 gr. Roundnose Nosler Partitions. I got a one shot kill shooting the Bear head on standing up, with perfect bullet performance. I left all my reloads, three boxs to be exact with the guide who also shot a .300. When I got home I found out Nosler was discontinueing the Roundnose 200 gr. and going to Spire point only. I bought up every box of 200 gr. .30 cal Roundnose I could find for the next 5 years, giving way to that hoarding syndrome. Now I hunt Alaska with a .340 Wby or .358 STA, go figure.

When contemplating those reloading manuals and deiciding out of two projectiles for my Rigby .416 (I like to find one load and stick to it for each rifle) The figures for the 340 gr pp and the 410 gr woodeligh RN's regarding BC's resulted in the 340 gr with the higher bc shooting only 2" flater at 300 yards. On big game this 2" would neither be here nor there, subsequently I opted for the 410 gr beacuse the RN's and Flat point projectiles I I have shot at game are better more consistent killers than spitzers IMHO.

A roundnose will work fine but I dont think its nessesary, in fact they may be obsolete. I believe that they were concieved before the advent of the spire point (notches inside the jacket) which also induces expansion. The actual expansion rate at velocities that a 6mm rem will make may not be much different between the two unless the RN has the spire point as well. Then you would have a VERY rapid expansion more suitable for lower velocities, but I dont think a rn has spire points, you could call hornady and find out.

Another bullet you may consider is speers mag tip FN. Its the bullet the GS was based on and is very similar with a more rapid expansion. If I were making a move away from spitzers thats the bullet I would choose. You are NOT nuts though. A rn will work fine, especially up close, and I could see them feeding better in certian rifles than other bullets, that would mostly depend on the gun.

Keep going Carcano! I was enjoying it! Tell um how it is. (Or ought to be!)

Yeah, Remington does do the trendy thing. I really miss that 215 gr 303 round. Best swamp donky (moose)round I ever used. Even If they would just sell the bullets I would be happy. Sigh. Oh well, maybe someday. - Dan

rn are great. interesting to see the difference in a well shot game, vs a not perfect shot game, rn vs sp. I shoot LOTS of both, and the rn's are my fav. Just because I like em
jeffe

Since when did Remington stop annealing rifle cases? Lets see....I use mostly all Rem brass.
.375H&H, .223, .25/06, 30/30,.243....yup all annealed. All purchased in the last 12 months.
Al, if you produced a product that didn't sell would still stock it. You wouldn't stay in business very long. Yes there are a lot of products that have been discontinued that I miss but they were discontinued because I/we didn't buy enough of it.